Are my wheels gonna fly off?

[erics75218]

Sorry for this amazingly NEWB question. I got some wheels from a guy here on the board, they were off his Elise, so I'm sure they are good to go since he tracked the car with them etc..

They are Team Dynamics 1.2 16x7/17x8...and here is what concerns me. When I take off the factory wheels, they kind of "sit" on the most central extruded portion of the "hub"...the wheel kind of "rests" on it, i'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. One tends to prop the wheel on that while rotating it to align all the bolt holes, etc.

Well this new wheel doesn't even contact that portion of the hub, so the entirety of the weight of the wheel is being supported by the 4 wheel bolts. That little hub is sunk in about 1/4 inch, and my wheel fully contacts the hub of the brake disc, but that's the only contact the wheel has with the hub/disc area.

I'm just wondering if perhaps I need to get some form of adapter or something, or maybe this is the dumbest question ever and everything is a-ok?

[Appleseed]

They are going to be lugcentric now instead of hubcentric... You just have to torque down the nuts before the tire is on the ground... I am right, right? If you want to get rid of them, I would want them

[Appleseed]

who'd you get those from anyway; I have been tryin to keep my eyes out for some

[lwein]

use tire studs instead of the bolts supplied by Lotus. You will thank me-----

[Appleseed]

tire studs? Aren't those for traction in the snow?

[lwein]

The studs are replaced in the hubs,then you use lug nuts-----MUCH easier (IMHO) to change tires than the lug bolts. Blackwatch racing has them,also Tire rack,or any BMW shop. You can even get alloy lug nuts,if you are into weight savings. Have done this with all the cars I own,especially the Lotus'.

[Vulcan Grey]

You should get some hubcentric rings to properly locate those wheels on the hub.

[kwancho]

Originally Posted by Vulcan Grey

You should get some hubcentric rings to properly locate those wheels on the hub.

Yes, yes, yes. You really want the forces transferred through the center ring, not the studs.

[erics75218]

interesting, where would one get a hub centric ring...that's what I figured, although it seems like it's the same if I get lugs as I've had on other cars. I'm not sure that my Miata, for instance, had any of the forces transfered through anything other than the lugs.


Does anyone know what size rings I'd need...? I just found this site....
Wheel Hub Centric Rings - buy wheel hub rings online from 1010tires.com

[FIL]

At first I thought the title of your thread sounded totally newbish and crazy, but yes, there is CHANCE that your lugs could shear and the wheels would fly off.
Check out the video below.
Now, is it likely to happen? No, but the hubcentric rings are still a good idea. Post if you figure out what size you need. I have the exact same wheels as you do.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jv4m41viy4I&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jv4m41viy4I&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[antinym]

hub centric wheels wouldn't have helped that Rx-8. He had the wrong sized lug nuts.

[xtn]

Although the OEM Lotus wheels appear hubcentric, the forces are not being transferred through the hub center anyway.

The inner bore of the wheels are a few thousandths (I'm guessing) larger than the hub's diameter. Plus you've got cone shaped lug nuts (or bolts) seating into cone shaped holes on the wheel.

So while the hub is useful for hanging the wheel on while you mount it, once you tighten down the nuts (or bolts) the whole thing gets centered via the cone mating surfaces, leaving the center bore of the wheel not actually touching the hub at all.

That's my analysis. It's worth what you paid for it.
xtn

Oh I should add something. The above is true as long as your nuts/bolts are torqued down correctly. The hub does have some value in that it will act as a backup in case your lugs are a bit loose. So maybe your studs/bolts won't shear as fast. So in this case it's probably better to use a hub ring if you need to just to have that backup capacity.

[erics75218]

yeah I'm having a real hard time finding these rings, rather, the size of the required rings. I'm taking my car to the track on Friday and I'd really like to have those rings on there "just in case"

What you typed up makes sense to me, come to think of my old cars with lugs, I'm not sure there was any central mating surface there either. But like you also said, make sure everything is torqued down perfectly.

[erics75218]

And I just found this info on a Miata forum...so I may not worry about it. I did wonder how much of a load that thing would support if it could be made of plastic...

Mazda Performance Parts: Hubcentric Ring set to Fit Mx5 73/67
application notes: Folks ask us all the time if hubcentric rings are required. They are NOT. They are a convenience item for centering the wheels properly, the lugs do the final centering. They are not a load bearing item which is why they can, and usually are, made of nylon reinforced plastic. Racers often skip these and use their knees to center the rims while they get the lugs on, street users usually get the rings.

[Zinhead]

If you need hub centering rims, call Charlie DiMarco with Serpent Autosports. He can make up a custom set at a reasonable price.

Hub Adapters and Spacers

I was under the impression that Lotus wheels were supposed to be hubcentric. They certainly seem that way when I mount and unmount them.

[lwein]

They do not support ANY weight---they are only there to center the wheel in relation to the hub. In theory,they could be made to disappear once the wheel is on the car and the lugs are tightened.In theory, they COULD be made of leather,it is of no importance once the wheel is on the car and is tightened. That is why the studs are a good idea,makes it easier to put the wheel on.
I got a great idea-how about mounting the wheels on your car and see if they VIBRATE?---but that will end the thread.

[xtn]

To make sure my wheels are well centered I do this:

First I just finger tighten the lugs.
Then I use a rubber mallet to gently tap on the wheel spokes in clockwise and counter-clockwise directions as I continue to finger tighten the lugs some more. I can feel the lugs get an extra quarter turn of freedom when the mallet hits. This seems to really get the cone shaped mating surfaces into a true centered relationship.

Try it!

A "real" hub centric wheel and hub combination does not need cone shaped mating surfaces at the lugs.

[glacialmoraine]

All I can say is VW's are hub centric on the watercooled ones, and I had a set of wheels that vibrated like crazy until i got centering rings. They have ball shaped lug seats, not conical, fwiw.

Basically if everything is torqued right and there is no vibration make your own call. I'd get the rings. Also, make sure the cone taper of the lug nuts/bolts matches the cone taper of the rims. Mismatched cone tapers will not center correctly and may cause you to have an accident.

gm

[khamai]

Originally Posted by xtn

To make sure my wheels are well centered I do this:

First I just finger tighten the lugs.
Then I use a rubber mallet to gently tap on the wheel spokes in clockwise and counter-clockwise directions as I continue to finger tighten the lugs some more. I can feel the lugs get an extra quarter turn of freedom when the mallet hits. This seems to really get the cone shaped mating surfaces into a true centered relationship.

Try it!

A "real" hub centric wheel and hub combination does not need cone shaped mating surfaces at the lugs.

This is what you do with any other wheel (without using a rubber mallet, just jiggle the wheel). And then torque in the traditional star pattern. The tapered lug nut/bolt will do the centering.

Keep in mind the lug bolts or studs do not really carry any significant load in shear. They are in tension (as they are designed to do). They clamp the inside hub face of the wheel to hub and it is the friction between the wheel and hub that carries the shear load. Thus the significance of properly torquing the lug nut/bolts to provide the needed clamping force.

Cheers,
Kiyoshi

[Vulcan Grey]

A local machine shop should be able to make custom plastic rings to fit your car and wheels, pretty cheap and fast. Assuming your wheel bore is large enough to allow a thin plastic spacer between the hub and wheel bore. If they are too close, then you might not be able to fit plastic in there.

There is always a few thousandths of an inch of clearance just so you can get the wheels on easy, they aren't a tight fit. As others said, they aren't intended to make your wheel perfectly centered, but they do help the wheel be centered before it is torqued.

The jiggle method is still good to get each bolt centered in each hole.