Pricing of conversion-LTS to LSS

[Surferjer]

Okay, got the skinny on pricing out the conversion from Rothrock parts and then Rothrock service:

Parts-

front and rear LSS dampers (in the book they are actually listed as "Exige" dampers): $199.46 X 4 = $797.84

"Exige" front coilovers: $57.23 X 2 = $114.46
"Exige" rear coilovers: $59.28 X 2 = $118.55

Labor to convert, including shims and camber/toe measurements:
$160 front pair, $160 back pair, total $320.

So the total excluding the wheels is $1,350.93 + tax. Keeping the LTS dampers or supplying your own would bring the cost down to $553.09 + tax.

Those dampers are not that expensive, but I'll probably leave my LTS ones on until I'm ready to put adjustable ones on.

Hope this helps!!

Jer

[ConeFusion]

What about the steering rack mounting plate? The part should be cheap, but from previous discussions it sounded like it might be quite labor intensive.

[Surferjer]

Unknown. Does it need to be replaced, adjusted, ???? Stan? I'm an accountant (sometimes wished I was a mechanic) clueless...

Why would that need to be replaced?

[NMRJock]

Originally posted by Surferjer

Why would that need to be replaced?

If you want to compete in stock class at the autocrosses you have to change everything that is different to the LSS specs. Because that plate is different for LSS than from LTS (or whatever you want to call it) if you want to run LSS springs/wheels you also have to run that plate.

[Surferjer]

Is the plate different, or just adjusted? What's different about the plate????

[MattG]

The difference in the plate is the location of some holes in it. If I remember right, there are slots in the chassis where the plate bolts up, and one Pop rivet is used to locate and secure the plate - through which you then pass two bolts. So, the Pop rivet hole in the plate is in a different location in the different plates, thus shifting the location of the bolt holes and the steering rack attached via those.

Not my best explanation, but hopefully this'll do. The plate would cost maybe $5 to make in low volume.

[Surferjer]

Is there any functional difference in the plates? I know, I know, "SS in SCCA requires blah blah blah". But is there any REAL difference? This seems pretty stupid if they placed the holes in different spots for no reason. Will it therefore be difficult to put in the LSS one?

sheesh...sorry, I'm in a pissy mood today.

[TimMullen]

The steering rack mounting plate positions the steering rack vertically for the height of the suspension to correct for bump steer. The plates are just small metal plates with three holes drilled in them - one hole to pop rivet in place, and the other two for the bolts that mount the steering rack. When you change the suspension height, you are supposed to replace the mounting plates (some call them shims but officially they are height setting plates) - one plate on each side, reachable in the foot wells of the car. They shouldn't be that hard to replace as long as you can get into the "Lotus position" - upside down under the dash, with your feet in the air. Not terribly difficult, but a royal pain. I can't really see them costing that much. Still, something that you don't want to do often...

Oh yea, you have to drill out the pop rivet from the old plate to pop rivet the new plate in it's place each time - probably not a good thing to repeatedly drill and replace the same pop rivet.

A picture from the S1 Manual:

[europa73]

hey surferjer,
I'm getting my BRP Elise in a few weeks, is the color awesome in person? I haven't actually seen one live and I continue to second guess myself. Will I be disappointed? Thanks.

[Surferjer]

Thread heist! Thread heist! Europa73 - I will PM you.

[Stan]

For the SCCA, you don't have to convert everything to LSS...the dampers don't have to be LSS, they can be LTS, Koni, etc for example. For SCCA purposes either LTS or LSS must use their respective springs, rack shims, wheels widths (but Lotus wheels are not required). And tire size is up to you but they have to be 16 front and 17 rear. You can modify stuff or run larger wheels but that will move you out of stock.

The rack's shim plates are visible by looking down into our footwells. There is one per side. The plate is just held in place by one rivet. It's two holes have the rack retaining bolts pass through them. This locates the rack referenced to that rivet hole in the frame. The LSS plates position the rack 8 mm (5/16 inch) higher up than LTS. It's a dirt cheap part and not hard to change over. The rivet gets drilled out, EZ. The rack gets unscrewed. It stays in place because the other side is still attached. The plate is then slid out and the new one slid into place. Align it's rivet hole with that of the frame and rerivet (EZ but you need a rivet tool - they are readily available and cheap). Then refasten the rack.

The coil overs swap out easily. The springs don't appear to need a compressor to swap out as at least for the front I was able to move it around on it's perch by hand with the car jacked up and suspension extended. One bolt top and bottom connect the dampers to the car.

[Surferjer]

Yikes, Stan- it sounds like i should save myself $320 by just putting in the coilovers myself! I'll have to have the dealer do the rack shim, but I can have the local speed shop adjust the camber and toe. Hmmm-I could do this (keeping my dampers) for perhaps $350. That saves some money for wheel$!

[ChrisH]

I am planning to convert my spring/dampers over to LSS from standard.

I was looking for the rack height setting adjuster plate (that's what the part manual calls it) in the parts manual and at lotusgarage.com. You need to change this plate to maintain proper bump steer characteristics if the ride height is changed. However, the parts manual and lotusgarage only show one plate part number, but it does say it is 6 notch. I don't think the plate in my car has multiple notches (just 3 holes: 1 rivet and 2 bolts). Has anyone replaced this plate using ones appropriate for the LSS ride height? Does the part you order have multiple height settings to choose from?

I also read in the alignment section that the ride height for both the LSS and standard suspensions were both 130mm after and including VIN 3013 (I assume that is model year 2005), and the LSS ride height was 135 mm before VIN 3013. Isn't that 5 mm higher, not lower? If the ride height is actually higher for LSS, then the steering rack needs to be lowered (not raised) to stay in line with the wheels to minimize bump steer. Correct?

Now I just need to find out what the ride height setting is for the used LSS spring/dampers I bought last year. Or, figure out how to change the spring damper setting to make it the same ride height as for the standard suspension.

I guess I could always make a pair of plates based on the measured change in ride height. They look simple enough to make at home.

Edit: I think I found part of my answer. Lotus didn't change the rack height adjuster plate between standard suspsension and LSS at all. A 5mm difference on the earlier cars apparently wasn't enough to worry about.
Advice on Elise, Mods for Understeer, Selling Prices
However, I did see that eliseparts.com sells adjuster plates and claims they do change the rack height by 8mm, but there is no such part in the Lotus parts catalog that changes the rack height. Hmm...

[Chris Mackey]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

Edit: I think I found part of my answer. Lotus didn't change the rack height adjuster plate between standard suspsension and LSS at all. A 5mm difference on the earlier cars apparently wasn't enough to worry about.
Advice on Elise, Mods for Understeer, Selling Prices
However, I did see that eliseparts.com sells adjuster plates and claims they do change the rack height by 8mm, but there is no such part in the Lotus parts catalog that changes the rack height. Hmm...

I think that this thread only applies to S1s.