rear suspension inner toelink - LotusTalk

charliex · 05-18-2006, 09:03 PM

so i was down at south bay with frank.i had a rear track brace suspension in my hand today, pondering if i should fit it.

my good buddy ronin just called and said 'i told you so'

nice timing!

PsychoRallye · 05-19-2006, 04:25 AM

How much are they looking for the kit alone ? How about the labor ?

Can you handle doing a toe and camber alignment yourself ?

You will need the latter after installing the brace, especially in the rear...

Cheers

scottyb · 05-19-2006, 05:08 AM

As far as I am concerned this is a safety item that is needed and should have been done before delivery. Lotus should provide these free of charge. Dare I say RECALL! A number of cars have already had failures. It's just a matter of time until someone gets seriously hurt. Maybe if we make enough noise it will be recalled just like the shifter.

But what would I know about cantilever and shearing forces etc., I'm just a Dentist.

Stan · 05-19-2006, 05:30 AM

Oh yes indeed folks "Ronin told ya so", LOL.

Darn it, now I keep thinking about if my >30,000 mile toe-link will just snap apart as my car sits in it's spot.

NCZ06 · 05-19-2006, 05:36 AM

what is the typical failure mode for the toe link?

scottyb · 05-19-2006, 05:40 AM

I find it interesting, that even Nick Addams said if you are going to put hoosiers on your car, you need the rear suspension toelink. He was pretty adimit about it. That goes to show that even the High ups at Lotus know there is a problem, but I bet they are going to stick with, "Use only the stock tires that car came equipped with" excuse. The problem is, there have been failures with the stock tires.

fpitas · 05-19-2006, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyb

I find it interesting, that even Nick Addams said if you are going to put hoosiers on your car, you need the rear suspension toelink. He was pretty adimit about it. That goes to show that even the High ups at Lotus know there is a problem, but I bet they are going to stick with, "Use only the stock tires that car came equipped with" excuse. The problem is, there have been failures with the stock tires.

Not to be contrary but...who has had failures on the stock tires? I've read about people hitting curbs & snapping the link, but that hardly counts.

rnr · 05-19-2006, 06:23 AM

Marcw just had a failure on an Elise with stock tires and just 2 track days

http://elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=389038

scottyb · 05-19-2006, 06:24 AM

I know of one that happened on the track with stock tires. No curb issue. Maybe Stan or MyElise knows who the actual person is.

rnr · 05-19-2006, 06:33 AM

Matbe we should create a poll for toelink failures with specifics on the tires and conditions that caused it. Its one thing when it happens to a heavily tracked car running Hoosiers but now that its happening to lightly used cars running stock tires I am getting worried

fpitas · 05-19-2006, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnr

Marcw just had a failure on an Elise with stock tires and just 2 track days

http://elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=389038

Interesting. I'm not alarmed...yet, but it is food for thought.

marcw · 05-19-2006, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnr

Marcw just had a failure on an Elise with stock tires and just 2 track days

http://elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=389038

For the sake of accuracy, I was actually running Toyo RA-1's in 205/225, but they are pretty much the same "stickiness" as the stock A048's. The point being you need not run Hoosiers or other "full slicks" for this piece to fail. My car had only 2 prior track days, and 5,000 miles on the odo. This issue really should be of serious concern to all who track their cars.

Stan · 05-19-2006, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpitas

Not to be contrary but...who has had failures on the stock tires? I've read about people hitting curbs & snapping the link, but that hardly counts.

Well besides the recent failure, there have been a few at the Alastair McQueen Driving Experience days - A048s. The last one I heard about put the car into a guardrail.

®ob · 05-19-2006, 07:17 AM

Can we now really talk about the rear suspension brace on ET without the thread being shut down and deleted?

Surferjer · 05-19-2006, 07:28 AM

I don't think the thread will be shut down. Randy really hasn't been doing that. It is an interesting subject, and I eould LOVE to see Lotus issue a technical bulletin or something official addressing tracking the 05s and 06s and how this part should be installed in those usages. If that were to happen, all us SCCA guys could get it added (at our expense of course!) and still play within the rules.

Stan · 05-19-2006, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surferjer

I don't think the thread will be shut down. Randy really hasn't been doing that. It is an interesting subject, and I eould LOVE to see Lotus issue a technical bulletin or something official addressing tracking the 05s and 06s and how this part should be installed in those usages. If that were to happen, all us SCCA guys could get it added (at our expense of course!) and still play within the rules.

Oh he sure did shut it down Jer, and over 200 hundred posts were lost -poof-. And Frank (ronin) was banned. He was strident but very concerned about safety issues. Those posts came back not too long ago -poof-. The thread got closed...lots of ims, posts. PMs, emails about the matter...comments were made about being contacted by Lotus...the thread got moved once or twice...it went from around 250 posts to 3. Sat like that a long time. Then it quietly came back, most but not all of it. Because they are mostly back now, does not mean that they had not been banished for months despite objections to the contrary. I tried very hard at the time to see that thread left intact and really lost faith in a handful of ET members. Most are good people.

I don't see think it will be deleted at this point. Since there have been numerous occurances, and the latest one just happened at a public event with Lotus in attendance.

rnr · 05-19-2006, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan

Well besides the recent failure, there have been a few at the Alastair McQueen Driving Experience days - A048s. The last one I heard about put the car into a guardrail.

Are the cars used in the McQueen experience used exclusively for track days? I'm less concerned if it happens to a car that lives only on a track - its the lightly tracked street cars that worry me.

®ob · 05-19-2006, 08:11 AM

A day of track time is nothing to a car. This shouldn't happen.

Stan · 05-19-2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ®ob

A day of track time is nothing to a car. This shouldn't happen.

Note that a crucial factor here is that the suspension bolts are all properly torqued. Loose? Tick-tick-tick-boom.

khamai · 05-19-2006, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ®ob

Can we now really talk about the rear suspension brace on ET without the thread being shut down and deleted?

Technical content & discussion does not get threads deleted or people banned. Consistently breaking forum rules will, as an example making personal attacks will get a person banned.

Personally I'd like to see this discussion continue. It's healthy and great content.

Kiyoshi

05-18-2006, 09:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
charliex OSX Black hat Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Las Vegas , NV Posts: 10,000	rear suspension inner toelink so i was down at south bay with frank.i had a rear track brace suspension in my hand today, pondering if i should fit it. my good buddy ronin just called and said 'i told you so' nice timing! __________________ Black Exige S / Elan M100. Don't run a smaller pulley without an upgraded fuel pump! http://www.goth.am ecu stuff.. New reflash box coming soon!

05-19-2006, 04:25 AM	#2 (permalink)
PsychoRallye 05 Mag Blue LSS/HT Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Wherever you go, there you are. Posts: 801	How much are they looking for the kit alone ? How about the labor ? Can you handle doing a toe and camber alignment yourself ? You will need the latter after installing the brace, especially in the rear... Cheers __________________ "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

05-19-2006, 05:08 AM	#3 (permalink)
scottyb Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,734	As far as I am concerned this is a safety item that is needed and should have been done before delivery. Lotus should provide these free of charge. Dare I say RECALL! A number of cars have already had failures. It's just a matter of time until someone gets seriously hurt. Maybe if we make enough noise it will be recalled just like the shifter. But what would I know about cantilever and shearing forces etc., I'm just a Dentist. Last edited by scottyb; 05-19-2006 at 05:36 AM.

05-19-2006, 05:36 AM	#5 (permalink)
NCZ06 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 736	what is the typical failure mode for the toe link? __________________ 2005 Lotus Elise - Ardent Red - Touring / HT / SS / Larini / Micromirror / Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2s / Audiovox CCS100 Cruise Control 2002 Honda Civic Si - Flamenco Black Pearl

05-19-2006, 06:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
rnr daily driver Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Posts: 1,979	Marcw just had a failure on an Elise with stock tires and just 2 track days http://elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=389038 __________________ http://www.rahulnair.net/blog

05-19-2006, 05:30 AM	#4 (permalink)
Stan - Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,947	Oh yes indeed folks "Ronin told ya so", LOL. Darn it, now I keep thinking about if my >30,000 mile toe-link will just snap apart as my car sits in it's spot.

05-19-2006, 05:40 AM	#6 (permalink)
scottyb Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,734	I find it interesting, that even Nick Addams said if you are going to put hoosiers on your car, you need the rear suspension toelink. He was pretty adimit about it. That goes to show that even the High ups at Lotus know there is a problem, but I bet they are going to stick with, "Use only the stock tires that car came equipped with" excuse. The problem is, there have been failures with the stock tires.

05-19-2006, 06:24 AM	#9 (permalink)
scottyb Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,734	I know of one that happened on the track with stock tires. No curb issue. Maybe Stan or MyElise knows who the actual person is.

05-19-2006, 06:33 AM	#10 (permalink)
rnr daily driver Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Posts: 1,979	Matbe we should create a poll for toelink failures with specifics on the tires and conditions that caused it. Its one thing when it happens to a heavily tracked car running Hoosiers but now that its happening to lightly used cars running stock tires I am getting worried __________________ http://www.rahulnair.net/blog

05-19-2006, 07:17 AM	#14 (permalink)
®ob What's a registered user? Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Austin Posts: 1,109	Can we now really talk about the rear suspension brace on ET without the thread being shut down and deleted?

05-19-2006, 07:28 AM	#15 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,977	I don't think the thread will be shut down. Randy really hasn't been doing that. It is an interesting subject, and I eould LOVE to see Lotus issue a technical bulletin or something official addressing tracking the 05s and 06s and how this part should be installed in those usages. If that were to happen, all us SCCA guys could get it added (at our expense of course!) and still play within the rules. __________________ Jer 2005 Elise (retired from autox) 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata LeMons car 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car

05-19-2006, 08:11 AM	#18 (permalink)
®ob What's a registered user? Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Austin Posts: 1,109	A day of track time is nothing to a car. This shouldn't happen.

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