V2Arms Install Log (pics & questions too)

[Frank Amoroso]

Greetings all,

Well I started my V2 Arm install last evening. I got the tie-rods off using this...

http://http://www.handsontools.com/A...r_p_18125.html

I removed the tie-rods from the stock steering arms taking care not to damage the boots. Some grease did come out of the boots and the round circlip came off of both. I assume I need to take a syringe and repack some of the grease into the boots? If so, what kind? Also, I assume I need to get those circlips back onto the ends of the boots?

The driver's side was a BITCH! I had to crank the f'er down several times. Eventually, with the puller sitting there under TENSION, the tie-rod "popped" and it came apart with a bit of a bang. The passenger side was decidedly easier, as I applied pressure via the puller the tie rod slowly, and easily extracted from the steering arm.

Next step, upper ball joint removal this evening. Stay tuned.

Here are pics...

[fpitas]

Yeah, the rings came off mine too, although I wasn't being real careful since the regular tie-rod ends were being replaced with rod end bearings.

Next time you try to pop them, after cranking down the tie-rod puller, tap the ends of the bolts with a large hammer to set up some vibration. That usually causes them to break free.

[MulhollandMotors]

This stuff works great on the tie rod ends. Spray em down real good and most often they pop right off.



If I get one that's real stubborn I bust out some of this stuff. Awesome on any rusted fastener.

[Frank Amoroso]

Actually,

I used Kano Aero Kroil and tapped it with a rubber / plastic mallet too!

Thanks

[apk919]

Be careful to clean all the grease off the tapered part of the threaded shaft and the mating surface inside the steering arm... if you don't, the ball will start to turn when you try to torque down the nut... and it's a pain to unthread the nut once that starts happening. I've found that putting a bit of manual pressure on top of the ball joint while torqueing the nut also helps prevent spinning.

[rackhenry]

Frank

How long did it take you to do the (removing) part? Seems like its not as easy as I originally thought?

[Frank Amoroso]

Originally Posted by apk919

Be careful to clean all the grease off the tapered part of the threaded shaft and the mating surface inside the steering arm... if you don't, the ball will start to turn when you try to torque down the nut... and it's a pain to unthread the nut once that starts happening. I've found that putting a bit of manual pressure on top of the ball joint while torqueing the nut also helps prevent spinning.

Oh, thank you. That's very good to know. The nylock nuts are probably singe use items, eh? Thougths on re-using the nuts w/ a dab of Blue Loctite? Alternatively, time for me to finally purchase some safety wire pliers?! COOL!

Also, any suggestions on what kind of grease to "re-pack" the tie-rod ends with?

Originally Posted by rackhenry

Frank

How long did it take you to do the (removing) part? Seems like its not as easy as I originally thought?

Well, while dissasembly is normally easier than re-assembly, I don't think that holds true for tie-rod ends and ball joints. It took me about 20 mins to get the two tie-rod ends out. 15 mins on the stubborn one and less than 5 mins on the amenable one.

We'll see how the upper suspension arm ball joints go tonight.

I did purchase the tool and will be amenable to loaning it out to folks if they want to tackle the job themselves.



Frank

[fpitas]

I'll be curious to see how the upper ball-joint pulling goes. The tool I have needed to be ground a bit to fit between the ball joint and the steering arm.

[tomrev]

Another trick that usually pop's them right off provided you have a little room on each side of the joint; tighten your tool to apply a little tension, then lightly hit the joint with two hammers, from opposite sides, ( like your trying to hit both hammers together, with the rod-end in between) The sonic shock wave vibrates the taper loose, usually on the first try.

[apk919]

Originally Posted by Frank Amoroso

Oh, thank you. That's very good to know. The nylock nuts are probably singe use items, eh? Thougths on re-using the nuts w/ a dab of Blue Loctite? Alternatively, time for me to finally purchase some safety wire pliers?! COOL!

Some people say nylocks are single use, other say multiple. I reused mine, but always check the torque during track day prep. Haven't had to retighten them yet.

Originally Posted by Frank Amoroso

Also, any suggestions on what kind of grease to "re-pack" the tie-rod ends with?

I only lost a little grease, so I didn't bother to repack them. I suppose a good synthetic grease would be fine... maybe someone else can chime in on a good source. I discovered a little trick for putting the retaining ring back on: pull the grease boot end down past the tapered part of the shaft... it's under too much tension to put the ring back on when it's all the way retracted as in your photo. It's easier to repack when it's pulled all the way down too, if you decide to do that. You can then work the ring back on... but don't retract the grease boot too much or the ring might pop off again.

Originally Posted by Frank Amoroso

Well, while dissasembly is normally easier than re-assembly, I don't think that holds true for tie-rod ends and ball joints. It took me about 20 mins to get the two tie-rod ends out. 15 mins on the stubborn one and less than 5 mins on the amenable one.

As long as you careful not to let the ball spin during reassembly. Ask me how I know...

Originally Posted by Frank Amoroso

We'll see how the upper suspension arm ball joints go tonight.

I did purchase the tool and will be amenable to loaning it out to folks if they want to tackle the job themselves.



Frank

I used the same tool to separate both joints... it was a tight fit, but the tool worked great.

[apk919]

Originally Posted by rackhenry

Frank

How long did it take you to do the (removing) part? Seems like its not as easy as I originally thought?

David, if you need to borrow a ball joint separator, let me know...

[Frank Amoroso]

Originally Posted by apk919

As long as you careful not to let the ball spin during reassembly. Ask me how I know...

Too bad the bottom of the threaded section doesn't have two flats such that you could get a wrench on it. I bet that woulda helped.

[FIL]

Originally Posted by MulhollandMotors

Nut buster!!!

[Frank Amoroso]

Originally Posted by apk919

Be careful to clean all the grease off the tapered part of the threaded shaft and the mating surface inside the steering arm... if you don't, the ball will start to turn when you try to torque down the nut... and it's a pain to unthread the nut once that starts happening. I've found that putting a bit of manual pressure on top of the ball joint while torqueing the nut also helps prevent spinning.

Luckily I did not run into this issue. I did use a Craftsman bar clamp to hold both the tie-rod end and ball joint in place while tightening the fasteners.

Originally Posted by fpitas

I'll be curious to see how the upper ball-joint pulling goes. The tool I have needed to be ground a bit to fit between the ball joint and the steering arm.

Well, well, the upper ball joints were in TIGHT on both sides. In both cases I had to CRANK the tool and use rubber / plastic mallets to smack the ball joints. In both cases the joints let loose at some point thereafter. Good thing my: ratchet, mallets, uhhh... hand, etc. weren't in the way when the upper arm shot up. I'd strongly suggest using a strap between the upper and lower A-arms to help avoid any unpleasantries. Photos and alignment results to follow...

[fpitas]

FWIW, since the ball joint nut tightens against aluminum instead of steel with the new steering arms, I added a washer under the nut.

[luxige]

Originally Posted by apk919

Some people say nylocks are single use, other say multiple. I reused mine, but always check the torque during track day prep. Haven't had to retighten them yet.

Carroll Smith says nylocs can be reused "several times"; good enough for me.

Your description of checking torque makes me guess that you are applying a torque wrench in the tightening direction on an already assembled fastener. My apologies if I have assumed this in error.
For those who may be using this common method, here is the problem: this will not actually check anything, as breakaway torque is quite a bit higher than applied torque, up to about 30% more. So the fastener could be significantly under-torqued and you wouldn't know it. A better way is to loosen the fastener (never use the torque wrench for breaking joints loose), then retighten to the specified torque. Note that you still won't know if the joint had lost torque.
The downside to this more accurate method is that over time you will exercise the checked fasteners a lot, which is not good. So whenever possible, it is better to mark the assembled fastener and adjacent clamped surface with paint or scribe marks. To check torque, just make sure the marks are still registered. This is the most accurate method anyway. Note that single-use bolts usually have paint marks.
There is a crack-on/crack-off method of checking torque by calculating the breakaway torque and applying force until the fastener just breaks loose, but this requires a special wrench with an electronic strain gauge that detects the breakaway point instantly. Trying to do it manually is not accurate.

[Frank Amoroso]

Originally Posted by luxige

So whenever possible, it is better to mark the assembled fastener and adjacent clamped surface with paint or scribe marks. To check torque, just make sure the marks are still registered.

Is there a preferred marking pen / paint to use?

More pics...

[Frank Amoroso]

More pics part deux...

[rackhenry]

Originally Posted by apk919

David, if you need to borrow a ball joint separator, let me know...

Thanks Andy, I went ahead and took it to a shop.. I was in a time crunch for my last event...

[rackhenry]

Frank,

I honestly wish I had done this myself but had run out of time ( track event looming). However, I am not happy because my original arms have a big dent where they were hit hard by the shop when removing them. Seems like doing work yourself on the car, or perhaps Lotus shop is the only way to go. I have yet to look at the install job in detail. ( almost afraid too...) Needless to say a shop that does decent work on another car may not be so great. With the Lotus every mistake seems exacerbated.