what kind of tires should I get?

[ace3]

stock LSS tires currently. ~7500mi on the car, with 2.5 trackdays. rears are shot. Keeping the A048 fronts until they're toast.

- new a048's for $215/tire
- new Azenis RT-615 for ~$150/tire
- A032R's for ~$170/tire


the Azenis are interesting, partly because they're so cheap, but also becuase they're brand new.

but I also worry about the whole "suspension setup for the A048's by Lotus" part. Should that be that big of a deal?

Car will be daily driven, no rain, and a bunch of DE trackdays.

[ChrisH]

One thing to keep in mind: tires that are designed for heavier cars may have trouble heating up enough to get good traction due to the walls being too stiff. The tire material needs to flex some to generate heat. Lotus worked with Yokohama to make versions of their tires appropriate for such a light weight car. It isn't just a matter of having the right tire size.

[pianomaniac]

If your cost of your life is based on the cost of tires, I could have (but wouldn't have willingly) given you my 048's for free.....they only had 5000 miles on them and they were dangerous (probably too many heat cycles).

BTW: I always change all rubber at the same time. Some may see it as overkill....I see it as a new lease on life and handling.

You asked for opinions....mine is.....buy yourself a new set of 4 048's and fore-go something else in life.

[ekological]

Originally Posted by ace3

- new a048's for $215/tire
- new Azenis RT-615 for ~$150/tire
- A032R's for ~$170/tire

I remember some here complained that the A048s were loud. Um...I just mounted my A048s on SSRs and while they aren't as quiet at the AD07s (I think those were stock), they aren't nearly as bad as the A032Rs. Maybe I haven't worn enough tread off of the A048s to hear it. But if you really want a buzz box...get the A032Rs... In other words, stay away

Also, about those saying tires designed for heavy cars, etc, etc... I don't really buy that. Also, how the suspension/tire package was so preciously tuned by Lotus...don't buy that either. As with everything, life is a compromise. Now that I have the A048s on the car, I noticed the car is a bit more nervous. Some will say that it's the LSS tires overwhelming the non-LSS suspension! To that, I will just laugh. All that speculation is the result of uninformed guesses from armchair experts. The LSS springs are only 10% stiffer.. I think this is a case of the suspension bottoming out and hitting the bumpstops (and I don't think the extra 10% would have helped). Of course Lotus didn't put the most expensive dampeners on the car as that would drive costs up.

I guess one of those Ohlin, Nitron, whatever packages will be my next upgrade as Brett from Forced Fed and Stan as well as others have pointed out as actually improving the ride in street riding as well as aggressive driving.

my $.02

[ekological]

Originally Posted by pianomaniac

BTW: I always change all rubber at the same time. Some may see it as overkill....I see it as a new lease on life and handling.

You asked for opinions....mine is.....buy yourself a new set of 4 048's and fore-go something else in life.

I agree with this 100% A few years ago, I hit the track several times a month. My Pilot Sports were worn on my M3..and I was just learning on streets so I didn't have a set of dedicated track tires like I do now. Actually, the ironic thing was I had just purchased a used set of track wheels w/ tires from someone and they just arrived. I had even taken out the jack to put a track wheel on the M3 just to see fitment, etc. This was late in September, btw. So...I was supposed to hang out with some friends over the Labor Day weekend. It was drizzling and actually a bit cold. I had my worn street tires on....not having replaced them because I couldn't decide between 235/40 or 245/40 S03s. I had Porsche brakes on all four corners so I was worried about some rubbing issues. Well...driving around on the highway and all of a sudden, the back end comes around. End results: $18k damage. Lesson learned: Don't be a cheapskate when it comes to the only thing between your car and the road...

[MitchT]

I agree, I have the same setup the o48 ssrs on touring car, drove it at homestead yesterday at an hpde and it handle very well, the real difference between the touring and lss is the wheels and tires, the shocks are minimal, but I do feel that the guy at lotus are experts, with that said shocks could be upgraded, even porsche does not use shocks as good as the ohlin except on the 100k plus cars. SO how could lotus on a 45k car use the best of the best.

[ekological]

Originally Posted by MitchT

the shocks are minimal, but I do feel that the guy at lotus are experts, with that said shocks could be upgraded, even porsche does not use shocks as good as the ohlin except on the 100k plus cars. SO how could lotus on a 45k car use the best of the best.

I agree. And yes, the Lotus people tune to the best of their ability with respect to performance/cost/etc. It's just funny when you hear some folks cry blasphemy should anyone say they are upgrading the suspension, the engine output, etc. Those are usually the ninnies who constantly talk about removing this and that to save every single gram when a) the driver can probably stand to lose some weight and b) much more performance can be extracted by upgrading the nut behind the wheel.

[TECK]

I think it depends on what your are trying to achieve. If it's the best BALANCE between road and track I'd stick with the A048's since the car was developed in conjuction with those specific tires.

If you have specific desire for even better track performance consider racing tires or the new/coming even softer compound R tires. On the other end of the spectrum a harder compound, somewhat less aggresive tire might break away more predictably and/or give a better ride. They would also last longer.

I've had excellent results with TireRack and their experts once I tell them what I am hoping to accomplish with the car/tires. My opinion is that on a car in the Elise price range price should be a secondary objective.

[Randy Chase]

A-048s. No question.

Mine were heat cycled just past 5000 miles. Still had tread, but lost stick.

[Stan]

Look...on the base or LSS Bilsteins...if these were replacement shocks for a mass market car, they'd be about 40-80 dollars apiece. Great for the price, but built to a price. They can't achieve the kind of damping forces that fancier shocks can produce. As in more of the good and less of the bad.

[Randy Chase]

[quote=ekological]

Also, how the suspension/tire package was so preciously tuned by Lotus...don't buy that either.

Yokohama said that they worked with Lotus and everything I have seen and heard indicates that this is true and they continue to work with Lotus and have been talking with some of us that compete in the Elise. Perhaps one might quibble on the extent of the preciousness in the tuning, but I do believe that a lot of consideration was given by the Lotus engineers to the tires.

Some will say that it's the LSS tires overwhelming the non-LSS suspension! To that, I will just laugh. All that speculation is the result of uninformed guesses from armchair experts.

Nope. I would not argue that the fears of the LSS tires on the non-LSS suspension appear to be an over reaction, but that was not from speculation. It was directly from Lotus engineers.

[sleepless]

Has anyone tried shaved 048Rs???

[Rich]

This topic comes up very often, so you may want to try a search. Here are 2 threads with my thoughts.

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10939
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8755

The first shows my reasoning in choosing Hankook Ventus R-S2s as replacement tires. I am saving my A048s for the track, and the Hankooks allow me to compete in the local street tire autocross class (the A048s are not due to treadwear rating).

The Hankooks are designed to compete with the Azenis in the STS-like classes for SCCA Solo 2. My car has finished 2nd & 3rd of 9 and 2nd of 11 locally in class. I expect to win the class on them this year, but you never know for sure. They're a bit softer and less responsive than the A048s, and have a bit less grip. They are incredible in the rain, however, and are the grippiest true street tire I've ever used. I also like the price - they're $81 for the fronts and $104 for the rears from www.tires.com. They are slightly wider and one size down in aspect ratio, so you get a bit more torque at a top speed in gear penalty. That's exactly the trade I wanted. They also lower the car a tenth of an inch or 2.

I'd highly recommend them if you're interested in a high performance street tire if you want to save your A048s for the track. At that price I won't mind how long they last either!

[Stan]

Remember that tires like the A048 tend to harden from heat cycling. And that the timer is set off when you use them. So they are aging just sitting in storage too! This means that you can't always judge life by tread depth. One of the early signs of hardening track rubber is that the grip goes away at lower temps. That's where you tend to notice it first. So the warm up period becomes more important before your fun can begin. In autocross...on a cold Spring morning...you really notice it, then they come back to life (mostly) with an extra 10-20F of ambient temp and some direct sun onto the pavement.

[sleepless]

Originally Posted by Randy Chase

A-048s. No question.

Mine were heat cycled just past 5000 miles. Still had tread, but lost stick.

About how many heat cycles did they last?

[Robert Puertas]

Originally Posted by sleepless

Has anyone tried shaved 048Rs???

I was given a set by Yokohama for testing purposes.
They really are terrific tires.
They feel much better than the Kumhos or Hoosiers.
And while not as grippy as the 710s, they are close to the A3S04s.

[sleepless]

Originally Posted by Robert Puertas

I was given a set by Yokohama for testing purposes.
They really are terrific tires.
They feel much better than the Kumhos or Hoosiers.
And while not as grippy as the 710s, they are close to the A3S04s.

Wow! Thanks Robert. I was thinking of trying a shaved set of 048Rs before trying Hoosiers. Now I will for sure. You're just on a roll helping me out today

Pete

[Surferjer]

I've been sitting here scratching my head on the AO48s. The fronts have tons of tread left, rears are nearing the end of their useful life. I don't race them anymore, Hoosiers for that, so what do I do? Toss the rears in a thousand miles and get new rears only? They're for the street only. Or do I need to toss the fronts too and use the wheels for something else (Hoosier rains)? I still have the AD07s, too, and those rears are also nearing the end a lot faster than the fronts. On other cars I'd get new rears and leave the fronts on. I wil eventually just run the AD07s on the street because the tread lasts so much longer. I don't want to be cheap, but tires are expensive! Thanks for any and all advice.

BTW-I have 21 runs on my Hoosiers and they look like their good for at least that many more...

[sleepless]

If they are for street only, then I'd just get a new set of 048s for the rear.

[NMRJock]

My plan for my LSS Elise is to purchase a couple of sets of 048s for the rear per full set of tires. If I find that the fronts are hardening that much then I may end up having to do full sets every time.