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Old 12-01-2012, 05:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Wishbone bushing comparison

Looking to replace these on the elise, looking for feedback or pro/con of each set.


Seriouly lotus


SuperPro Polyurethane


Powerflex


Nylon Self Lubricating

BWR self lub same?


mono-balls


Nitron - may be too track focused?


Lotus OEM

Am I missing any?

For my use Figure 30% track 70% street. I'm going to add a rear shear panel to hope reduce the bushings from shifting again...
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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In the late 70s, I machined Delrin suspension bushings for my car…they got beat out in no time (like several months). For that reason I keep away from hard plastics like Delrin and Nylon. Polyurethane is a great material, but if the lubricant gets washed out (or don’t get lubricated at all), they will squeak and drive you nuts…it’s like having an annoying cat in your trunk. Once you get into the hard plastics (Delrin, Nylon, Polyurethane, etc.), I bet you won’t be able to tell the difference in added road noise in your car from the ball joints. Go with the ball joints (Sector111, Nitron) and do it right. I got Nitron’s for mine.
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Old 12-01-2012, 07:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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+1 on the plastics.
I've got mono balls, they have very nice seals in them. Been in the car for almost three years now, took them apart a few months ago, still as tight as when I put them in.
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Big fan of the mono-balls myself... had the nylatron (Nylon) bushings when I bought the car, they were shot pretty quick, ran the polyurethane bushings next, better wear but they walked a bit. The mono-balls have been the best so far, well designed to stand up to all weather use.
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I am replacing my bushings slowly (I had a couple of bad stock bushings in the front). I have done the fronts so far. I researched the same set of potential bushings, and decided on monoballs. The handling has improved, and there really are no significant drawbacks on this car with solid bearings. The only minor drawback is that going over sharp bumps or holes is louder, but no difference for regular road noise or vibration.

And like a previous poster said, they have some nice thick O-rings to seal out water and dirt. However, I imagine that those O-rings won't last forever, so may have to be replaced at some point. (It would be nice to know the specifications and a source for those O-rings.)
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input! That is what I'm concerned with small sharp bumps. Or large gaps in the highway and mono balls.

I was leaning towards the self lub ones. But I'm shocked with the almost 100% mono ball vote.

Does anyone have experience with any of the other types listed?


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Old 12-02-2012, 03:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I recommend you investigate further what is actually meant by "self-lube". The one I looked at simply meant the material exudes a greasy film. It does not mean that a real bearing grease is involved, nor that the greasy film effectively protects the inner sleeve from corrosion, nor that it is an effective lubricant. You want the long term experience from people who have used them.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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That's exactly my concern. The "self-lube" will likely dry up, then I'm back to replacing them. I would like to do this once and last a long time!


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Old 12-28-2012, 06:07 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcar9 View Post
Looking to replace these on the elise, looking for feedback or pro/con of each set.

[SNIP]

Am I missing any?

For my use Figure 30% track 70% street. I'm going to add a rear shear panel to hope reduce the bushings from shifting again...
These...

DRS Delrin Control Arm Bushings
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:21 AM   #10 (permalink)
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MonoBalls on the street

This is a very good thread, as I am on the fence on MonoBalls. I do about 4,000 miles a year on the street and about 1,000 on track in a good year.

I plan on keeping the car for a long time (2006 Elise) and my key concern is longevity for any installed bushing, as I will do the install myself, as well as any required alignment.

I am not concerned that much on street comfort, as I run adjustable Ohlins and back them off 4-5 clicks in compression on the street. It makes a HUGE difference in comfort, over the stock shocks.

So, does anyone have any mileage figures on how long they have had their MonoBalls installed?

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Old 12-18-2013, 12:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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for the high performance street, delrin is the way to go. Not sure how those home-machined delrin bushings are designed but I suspect the bushing design is inadequate or the crush sleeve is not machined right. I'm at about 8 years daily driving on my Mustang Cobra IRS with delrin bushings on the control arms and aside from a couple of times spraying lubrication (spray with them still assembled in the car) have not had to do any additional maintenance on them.

I'd just have to add that delrin on car bushings is not a novel concept. Thousands of cars have aftermarket delrin bushings. If those home made ones are wearing out in a few months, its the design or the workmanship of the bushings not the material.
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I have about 15 track days and 7000 miles on my mono balls. Very happy with them
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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for the high performance street, delrin is the way to go. Not sure how those home-machined delrin bushings are designed but I suspect the bushing design is inadequate or the crush sleeve is not machined right. I'm at about 8 years daily driving on my Mustang Cobra IRS with delrin bushings on the control arms and aside from a couple of times spraying lubrication (spray with them still assembled in the car) have not had to do any additional maintenance on them.

I'd just have to add that delrin on car bushings is not a novel concept. Thousands of cars have aftermarket delrin bushings. If those home made ones are wearing out in a few months, its the design or the workmanship of the bushings not the material.
Thanks a lot for the reply, Batman, you replied to this on another thread and I appreciate it. As a funny aside, Adam West is a neighbor and friend. He's a cool and very funny guy!

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Old 12-18-2013, 01:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I have about 15 track days and 7000 miles on my mono balls. Very happy with them
Good input.Just the sort I was looking for.

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Old 12-18-2013, 01:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Delrin is a trade name for acetal, but it's applied to several different plastics. Plain Delrin is really a horrible bearing material at high loads. They make glass/carbon/teflon filled variants that are much better though. There are other classes of plastic that are far better.
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:53 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Delrin is a trade name for acetal, but it's applied to several different plastics. Plain Delrin is really a horrible bearing material at high loads. They make glass/carbon/teflon filled variants that are much better though. There are other classes of plastic that are far better.
Thanks, that is one reason I am thinking of just going to MonoBalls and calling it quits.

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Old 12-18-2013, 03:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
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re: Monoballs

I ran rose joints in suspension control bars and aircraft roller bearings in the a-arms. (See Joe's, for example). The monoballs would wear out and get noisy. When they are good and new, they are great. Hard poly is noisy and I do not like the feel at all. I would never use hard plastic bushings ever again.

I have rose joints i.e. mono-balls in my Lotus. At some point I will make new a-arms and use roller bearings. I have not used my set-up long enough to give any feed-back. It is all new and it is still very smooth. The car is light and they may take a very long time to wear out. My old car was a C4 Corvette ZR1, it has 3/8" sway-bar links. They would wear out in a year. The large 1/2" and 5/8" rose-joints would last forever.

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Old 12-18-2013, 06:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Thanks a lot for the reply, Batman, you replied to this on another thread and I appreciate it. As a funny aside, Adam West is a neighbor and friend. He's a cool and very funny guy!



I would have to add that Polyurethane is terrible for any articulating bushings.
They have a high friction without lubrication, creeps over time and require regular greasing to avoid noises. They are great, however for static bushings and engine mounts because they are available in a wide range of stiffness and is excellent in damping vibrations. I suspect their use in bushings are popular because the mold for casting them are not expensive.

Motogeek is correct that there are many classes of delrin, some are much better suited for bearing then others. A properly designed polymer bushing (delrin, UHMWPE, rulon, etc) strikes a great balance between performance and durability. They still absorb some vibration and even when they wear they do progressively and do not "clunk" as badly as the hard metal bushings.

As for rod end bearings (rose joints or heim joints) or spherical bearings (mono-ball), they are going to give you the ultimate in performance, but they do not absorb any vibration and you need to seal them well or they will be very susceptible to dirt and dust. Hard track miles will most likely NOT wear them out, but daily driving in weather conditions will...
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Does anybody know what the dimensions are for the Elise?

Just read about these and though I would inquire.

xAxis Flex Joint Builder Series

Features
Sealed joint retains grease and excludes contaminants
Highly polished electroless-nickel finish on ball maximizes durability
Up to 45° angularity for high mis-alignment requirements
Common sizes that builders, fabricators and racers need



Benefits
Reduced compliance and deflections vs rubber and poly joints
Improved durability vs spherical bearings and poly style bushings
Increased angularity compares to rubber and poly bushings
Precision engineered to be a direct fit for many popular street/race or HD and off-road applications
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Does anybody know what the dimensions are for the Elise?

Just read about these and though I would inquire.

xAxis Flex Joint Builder Series

Features
Sealed joint retains grease and excludes contaminants
Highly polished electroless-nickel finish on ball maximizes durability
Up to 45° angularity for high mis-alignment requirements
Common sizes that builders, fabricators and racers need



Benefits
Reduced compliance and deflections vs rubber and poly joints
Improved durability vs spherical bearings and poly style bushings
Increased angularity compares to rubber and poly bushings
Precision engineered to be a direct fit for many popular street/race or HD and off-road applications
Those look just like the sector111 monoballs.
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