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Old 12-16-2011, 04:24 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question How do you install APR Carbon Canards?

Hey guys,

I just got my Carbon APR Canards for my elise.. However it didn't come with any instruction but seems straight forward but not sure the best way to position the canards and a little scared to drill holes in the front bumper..

Is there a particular drill bit size and type for the fibreglass clam..?

Any advice of how to install them?
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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What im wondering is; how do you determine the height from the ground & rake/angle for the proper amount of DF?
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by slightly2ned View Post
What im wondering is; how do you determine the height from the ground & rake/angle for the proper amount of DF?
Wind tunnel
How else would you do it???
Every other method will just be a gamble
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Wind tunnel
How else would you do it???
Every other method will just be a gamble
Only other way I can think of is if someone has gone through this process & made a template. Although the application/amount of DF for that particular user would possibly be off due to the rear aero setup from yours; it would be a better educated guess to start off from.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by slightly2ned View Post
What im wondering is; how do you determine the height from the ground & rake/angle for the proper amount of DF?
There are ton of Exige/Elise with canards find a side shot and mimic, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to do this unless you a serious race..
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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well - I did 'try' to mount mine with purpose... here's what I did:
- I used a high-speed fan and a smoker to play around with where the air went and were it got deflected by the canards. This is the same fan I use when tuning on a dyno - blowing into the intercoolers (since the cars aren't moving through the air).

on my SCCA car - the canards are mounted very solidly, and I wanted to use them to help plant the front corners deeper while I was under braking, reducing understeer in the heavier car. After playing around with how much rake under normal stance before stall occurs, I then pitched the car to similar under-braking and just tried to find a good balance between the two. So they are mounted at 15degrees which turns into nearly 30degrees under heavy braking because of the pitch of the car.

on my Esprit - it was more about directing air over to the rear wing, very firm suspension and needs rear planted more... so I did the same fan/smoker trick - and tried to get the air flowing up off the fenders, over the mirros and onto the ends of the spoiler.

does it work - hell if I know - I'm not a good enough driver to max the car, so all I can do is put a little thought behind it...
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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There's not that many ways that the canards can be positioned and still have the mounting side fit somewhat flush against the body. When I put mine on my former Exige, I tried different angles but only one way seemed to fit best. Also the position is different if you have an Elise or Exige because of slight differences in the front clam. I ended up using painters tape to put the canards in place and make sure both sides were symmetrical and then marked the holes with a sharpie.

The small screws they provide worked ok, but you may want a slightly longer for the lowest (closest to the center of the vehicle.) Also when drilling that lowest hole on each side be VERY careful because you're close to the oil cooler. I found a drill bit that fit inside the mounting holes of the canard and then went up one size.

I agree to get it right you'd want to go to a wind tunnel, baseline the stock set up and then play with the canards and rear wing until you have the same F/R balance. As very few of us can do that, I ended up putting the canards on however they fit best (used a digital level on both sides so they were consistent) then adjusted the APR rear wing at the track until there was no massive over or understeer.

Good luck!
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RENDERMAN View Post
There are ton of Exige/Elise with canards find a side shot and mimic, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to do this unless you a serious race..
Yeah that's obvious; the typical way...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicker View Post
well - I did 'try' to mount mine with purpose... here's what I did:
- I used a high-speed fan and a smoker to play around with where the air went and were it got deflected by the canards. This is the same fan I use when tuning on a dyno - blowing into the intercoolers (since the cars aren't moving through the air).

on my SCCA car - the canards are mounted very solidly, and I wanted to use them to help plant the front corners deeper while I was under braking, reducing understeer in the heavier car. After playing around with how much rake under normal stance before stall occurs, I then pitched the car to similar under-braking and just tried to find a good balance between the two. So they are mounted at 15degrees which turns into nearly 30degrees under heavy braking because of the pitch of the car.

on my Esprit - it was more about directing air over to the rear wing, very firm suspension and needs rear planted more... so I did the same fan/smoker trick - and tried to get the air flowing up off the fenders, over the mirros and onto the ends of the spoiler.

does it work - hell if I know - I'm not a good enough driver to max the car, so all I can do is put a little thought behind it...
This is a great DIY approach & I would feel much more gratified knowing some testing is backing up the chosen mounting position (given the commitment to drill holes in to your clam); much better than the typical way mentioned above.

My thoughts are the same for utilizing the rake/weight transfer + aero up front to work in tandem with the rear wing. Im going to try & research a facility in my area that might actually offer some form of wind testing. There are a substantial amount of aero products on the market that Im curious to see the overall effects of on the car without getting overly technical about the dynamics.

I found a very good article on aero testing with a widebody Exige & stock 07 Exige. From what I can recall, the use of side sills + aero plates on the rear diffuser along with an "above mounted" muffler diffuser/exhaust setup cleaned up the aero well. In addition, raising the wing height to a minimum of the cord length but more so closer to the roof line as most know, proved to be effective - essentially, the recommendation was to mount the wing to the highest point allowed by whatever sanction youre running.

Last edited by slightly2ned; 12-21-2011 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:12 PM   #9 (permalink)
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With mine I centered the front tip of the canard with the middle of the oil cooler inlets, like where the curve reaches its peak to the side. Then the top end of the canard is almost touching the side marker lights.

I put lots of painters (blue) tape on the car while doing all this so I had something to write on and take any scratches.

I went to home depot and got adhesive backed foam stripping and put that inbetween the canard and body panel because there was just a very slight gap in some places (the curvature of the canard isn't perfect to the body). When you tighten down the canard the foam fills in the spots.

I installed mine over the starshield. So to replace the star shield you would need to remove the canards. Not a big deal.

I also used some descent size washers on the inside of the body to spread the load out. Can't be too big because of the curvature of the body though.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Interesting topic. It seems to me that the true test would be verifiable results.
Now that you have done the "science" test it. Do a brake test run under repeatable conditions. Stock, best guess, and second-best guess. If you can repeat braking results from 90mph-30mph? 120-60? while it is stock, then you can at least repeat it after you make changes. Try 0 degrees (or stock) 15 degrees, and 25 degrees? You can add radius to your braking and as long as you can repeat it, you can verify. Don't forget tire wear!
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Or I could just a be a ricer and not worry about it
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Hope these pics help
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Old 12-24-2011, 05:42 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I had the same considerations when I bought mine.....where exactly do they get mounted. I looked at many pictures of installs and re-read all of Simon McBeath's articles on aero mods for the Lotus Exige. Finally came to this conclusion (see photo). Does it work? I experimented with the rear motorsports wing adjustment to find the proper setting for best results. Seems to provide more stability in hard cornering and I don't have any decrease in top speed (according to my traqmate). The last couple of track days I had better times on the track I run quite a bit......but that may have been end of the season seat time improvement.
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Old 12-26-2011, 05:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks Guys =)

Last edited by Bluey; 12-29-2011 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:39 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I hope it's cool to dig up an old thread...........

I'm looking at mounting some canards on my Elise and know that most folks drill through the clam to do this. I have few qualms with drilling holes but since I autocross my car a good bit I'm concerned with hitting cones and having the canard damage the clam by ripping out the bolts that hold it on.

This got me thinking about how else one might attach the canards. So I did something interesting and a bit funny looking - I made some cardboard canards, covered them in duct tape and then just taped them to the car. I had no idea what to expect when i took it out and drove it. In the end i went out for about 15 miles and hit top speeds of about 105 mph and the cardboard and duct tape survived without issue and they even held their shape.

This make me think that maybe one could use double sticky foam tape to attach the canards and it you hit something hard enough the tape would fail before the clam did.

So..........this is a very long way to get to my question..........has anyone tried using double sticky tape to hold them on?

What say you?

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Old 11-19-2012, 06:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Davemk1 View Post
I hope it's cool to dig up an old thread...........

I'm looking at mounting some canards on my Elise and know that most folks drill through the clam to do this. I have few qualms with drilling holes but since I autocross my car a good bit I'm concerned with hitting cones and having the canard damage the clam by ripping out the bolts that hold it on.

This got me thinking about how else one might attach the canards. So I did something interesting and a bit funny looking - I made some cardboard canards, covered them in duct tape and then just taped them to the car. I had no idea what to expect when i took it out and drove it. In the end i went out for about 15 miles and hit top speeds of about 105 mph and the cardboard and duct tape survived without issue and they even held their shape.

This make me think that maybe one could use double sticky foam tape to attach the canards and it you hit something hard enough the tape would fail before the clam did.

So..........this is a very long way to get to my question..........has anyone tried using double sticky tape to hold them on?

What say you?

dave
That wouldn't really work. The tape would flex before transferring any real downforce to the front of the car. They need to be rigid in order to transfer the downforce effectively.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:13 PM   #18 (permalink)
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That wouldn't really work. The tape would flex before transferring any real downforce to the front of the car. They need to be rigid in order to transfer the downforce effectively.
I was thinking the same thing.......at least until I did the cardboard duct tape test and even that set up was more than rigid enough.

I think they would be stiff enough with the tape but I just wonder if it would be strong enough.

Has anyone tried double stick foam tape?

Dave
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