Mounting Sub Belts on Stock Seats

[ace10]

For weeks I've been contemplating, evaluating, reading, obsessing and examining the process of installing six point belts on a stock (exige) seat. Not wanting to go into this lightly armed, I have been relying heavily on the work of several generous folks here on e-talk.

Thanks to Esthi for this thread:
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38228
Conan and all those that added to his thread:
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36416
And especially the Safety thread with major contributions by Evil twin, drosen and many others.
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...t=13650&page=3

Now on to the point of my thread...

I'm absolutely perplexed as to the best way to feed the sub belt(s) from a sub mount bar (such as titanium dave's or 111's) attached to the seat and frame and up through to the seating surface. The photos, while helpful in every other respect, don't illustrate a conclusive pathway. For sure, I've seen photos of the cutout on the seat bottom, being sure to avoid the internal bar.

For the folks who have done this install, are you cutting a hole through the bar on the seat mount? If so, using which tools/technique? I think I read one mention of a cutting torch, perhaps. Or are you somehow routing the sub belt(s) fore or aft of the bar and then up throught the hole in the seat?


For the rest of the mounts, I'm going to be using the Lotus track pack bar for the shoulder belts and then attaching the lap belts directly to the floor using eyebolts secured through the structural member at the bottom of the bulkhead. One interesting note... I believe that there was a change to the MY07's where there are now tabs on the underside of the car which may prevent an additional backing plate (if desired) from laying flat against the aluminim skin. These "tabs" are small circular pieces of aluminum just aft of the structural seam. They're flat with no obvious menas of attachement to the body.

Thanks, in advance, for any help with this.


mount mounting seat harness antisub anti sub belt bar install cut hole holes slot modify
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[powerbookguy]

Originally Posted by ace10

I'm absolutely perplexed as to the best way to feed the sub belt(s) from a sub mount bar (such as titanium dave's or 111's) attached to the seat and frame and up through to the seating surface. The photos, while helpful in every other respect, don't illustrate a conclusive pathway. For sure, I've seen photos of the cutout on the seat bottom, being sure to avoid the internal bar.

For the folks who have done this install, are you cutting a hole through the bar on the seat mount? If so, using which tools/technique? I think I read one mention of a cutting torch, perhaps. Or are you somehow routing the sub belt(s) fore or aft of the bar and then up throught the hole in the seat?

i'm no expert on safety and do not profess to be but i researched this extensively before doing my install. ultimately i decded to cut a slot right behind the seat support bar becasue it seemed to offer better geometry. downside: the adjustment buckles end up being there so i will often wear a little foam pad where it counts. overall it works well.

the schroth guide is invaluable for harness installs, if you do not have it i can send a link.

research research research!

[sndesign]

I went to I/O Port racing to get my six point.
I had the guy there look at my car to determine the best way to set it up
with stock seats.
He said not to mount the anti-sub straps through the seats but to mount them
near the rear seat mount and to sit on the straps like a climbing harness.
He has been a track marshall and a tech inspector for years.
He has raced cars even longer.
I asked him why you would do it that way and he said that if the car goes upside down you can still get out alive if the car is on fire or under water.
He had seen the downside of both in his days at the track.

[wrh3]

Use this tool (Dremel with carbide cutting tip):



To cut this hole (use a drill bit to start in one corner, don't go deep enough to cut the leather):



And this is the way I routed mine:

[esthi]

Originally Posted by ace10

Now on to the point of my thread...

I'm absolutely perplexed as to the best way to feed the sub belt(s) from a sub mount bar (such as titanium dave's or 111's) attached to the seat and frame and up through to the seating surface. The photos, while helpful in every other respect, don't illustrate a conclusive pathway. For sure, I've seen photos of the cutout on the seat bottom, being sure to avoid the internal bar.

For the folks who have done this install, are you cutting a hole through the bar on the seat mount? If so, using which tools/technique? I think I read one mention of a cutting torch, perhaps. Or are you somehow routing the sub belt(s) fore or aft of the bar and then up throught the hole in the seat?

.

First I removed the seat from the seat frame. I put masking tape on the top and bottom of the seat and drew an outline of the holes. There are really only 2 options: fore or aft of the crossbeam in the seat. Then I lined up the seat with the frame, and marked the frame with masking tape. To cut the seat frame, I used a dremel w/ a heavy duty cutting wheel. I filed down the edges of the hole, and put a couple layers of racing tape to protect the belt from rubbing.

Good luck!! It's a ton of work, but well worth it.

[powerbookguy]

Originally Posted by sndesign

I went to I/O Port racing to get my six point.
I had the guy there look at my car to determine the best way to set it up
with stock seats.
He said not to mount the anti-sub straps through the seats but to mount them
near the rear seat mount and to sit on the straps like a climbing harness.
He has been a track marshall and a tech inspector for years.
He has raced cars even longer.
I asked him why you would do it that way and he said that if the car goes upside down you can still get out alive if the car is on fire or under water.
He had seen the downside of both in his days at the track.

i've seen this type of install reccommended elsewhere as well.

in the situations you describe, how is it any different than with the substraps mounted through the seatbottom? a quick flip of the buckle cam and the harness releases.

[sndesign]

Originally Posted by powerbookguy

i've seen this type of install reccommended elsewhere as well.

in the situations you describe, how is it any different than with the substraps mounted through the seatbottom? a quick flip of the buckle cam and the harness releases.

That's what I thought too, I asked the same question,
and he said you have to see a few of these crashes to understand.
Something about mobility upside down.

[Conan]

Originally Posted by ace10

Thanks to ...
Conan and all those that added to his thread:
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36416

Hey, np. Glad someone was able to use that info. Hopefully for good and not evil.

Originally Posted by ace10

I'm absolutely perplexed as to the best way to feed the sub belt(s) from a sub mount bar (such as titanium dave's or 111's) attached to the seat and frame and up through to the seating surface. The photos, while helpful in every other respect, don't illustrate a conclusive pathway. For sure, I've seen photos of the cutout on the seat bottom, being sure to avoid the internal bar.

For the folks who have done this install, are you cutting a hole through the bar on the seat mount? If so, using which tools/technique? I think I read one mention of a cutting torch, perhaps. Or are you somehow routing the sub belt(s) fore or aft of the bar and then up throught the hole in the seat?

Sorry I'm so late to respond here. Finally saw it via the link from the "snap in lap belt" thread.

Just like wrh3, I cut the hole for the 5/6 point strap just behind the seat cross member using a dremmel tool. Actually used that same bit you see in their picture, too.

[ace10]

Originally Posted by Conan

Hey, np. Glad someone was able to use that info. Hopefully for good and not evil.
Sorry I'm so late to respond here. Finally saw it via the link from the "snap in lap belt" thread.

Just like wrh3, I cut the hole for the 5/6 point strap just behind the seat cross member using a dremmel tool. Actually used that same bit you see in their picture, too.

i ended up making the hole for the antisub belt aft of the cross member also. approx 3/4" X 6". used a drill to mark the corners and a cutting disc attached to a flexishaft on a rotozip.

it worked like a charm.

had an auto upholsterer cut the leather and sew in liners.

[mike325ci]

i had lotus install the mounting points for my 6-point at the factory. the sub straps go under the seat and bolts behind the seat on the bottom of the chassis along with the side belt bolts.

like so:


and this shows the underside of the chassis where the four bolts go:


that's all the photos i have access to here at work. more photos of my car here:
http://www.mchoi.com/go/carpix/exige..._first_photos/

[TekZones]

I used the mount from TiDave and it worked very well. I chose Schroth for the 6-point harnesses and followed there recommended angles to within one degree. I had a local auto upholstery guy who has done his share of racing seats do the hole and the fabric work. I don't have the leather though he could have done that as well. The choice of location (for or aft of the seat crossbar) should be based on where you are positioned in the seat. The hole should be slightly behind the solid point of your crotch or pelvic bone. The hole should be big enough to fit door edge guard or something that will keep any plastic or metal edge from fraying the belt webbing.

I would have a look at the Schroth website for harness info in any case it is good stuff to know. If you want the install manual I can email the pdf to you if you like, just pm me an email address and I will get it to you.

Hope this is helpful.

Robert
2006 AW Exige

EDIT: I should have asked if you had completed your install yet, but I failed to look at the date of your original post.

[ace10]

Originally Posted by mike325ci

i had lotus install the mounting points for my 6-point at the factory. the sub straps go under the seat and bolts behind the seat on the bottom of the chassis along with the side belt bolts.

like so:

the inner two eyebolts are for the sub belts, i assume. what is the path for the straps from the eyebolts to the buckle?

[Jack]

Originally Posted by mike325ci

i had lotus install the mounting points for my 6-point at the factory. the sub straps go under the seat and bolts behind the seat on the bottom of the chassis along with the side belt bolts.

like so:



that's all the photos i have access to here at work. more photos of my car here:
http://www.mchoi.com/go/carpix/exige..._first_photos/

That's definitely not how the factory installs the sub belt on the Cup cars or 2-11.

[RoadDad]

Jack,
Any pics of your sub belt attachments available anywhere?

[TekZones]

I have to agree with Jack. Here is what is in the Schroth installation instructions. This should be close to most 6-point systems.

PROFI 6-POINT AND HYBRID MODELS
• Anti-submarining strap routing shall be vertical down from the groin, preferably approximately 20° back.
• Anchor points shall be approximately 100 mm [4”] lateral apart from each other. In case of a a low seating position (e.g. in open wheel race cars), this separation may be reduced since the anchor points are closer to the thighs.

If mounting using TiDave's bar, the mounting point is within 2-3 inches of you thighs. This allows the sub straps to be next to each other on the crossbar.

Robert

[Jack]

Originally Posted by RoadDad

Jack,
Any pics of your sub belt attachments available anywhere?

I'll try to take a photo of the sub-bar--which is bolted to the floor right below the front of the seat -- re-enforcement plates are used under the car to secure the sub-bar

If we can find the fitting instructions on line that come with the Lotus 6-pt competition harness kit, that would be ideal.

[Jack]

Originally Posted by MyElise

You must mean these:

You are the MAN!

[RoadDad]

Jack and MyElise,

Thank you very much.

[MidasHands]

We are working on installing EXARKUNS harness bar. Is there a picture of where on the rear seats the achoring points for the eyebolts for the shoulder harnesses and the lap harnesses go in relationship to the stock seat belts? A quick response would really help! Thanks.

[ace10]

Originally Posted by MidasHands

We are working on installing EXARKUNS harness bar. Is there a picture of where on the rear seats the achoring points for the eyebolts for the shoulder harnesses and the lap harnesses go in relationship to the stock seat belts? A quick response would really help! Thanks.

i really don't understand what you're asking... eyebolts and shoulder harnesses don't go together.

and "rear seats"??? are you installing on a lotus.