SVAG deposit-holders beware!

[suv_bait]

EDIT: For all of you not familiar with SVAG, see tail end of this thread for details:
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...818#post155818


Well, I did not get a call back from the manager yesterday, so I called during lunch today.

Based on everything positive I have heard about SVAG so far, this seemed like an episode of the twilight zone... but I assure you this all just happened to the very best of my rememberance.

I have taken a little bit of time to calm down, but this is what just transpired over the phone. Those of you who have met me I think know I'm a fairly calm, down-to-earth guy and I think I can be fairly polite and calm when speaking to people, even if about a difficult manner.

I called Dominick and told him the manager - Mark - did not call me back. Dominick agreed to transfer me.

Long story short, I ask why my "refundable" deposit is not being returned. Mark's answer - deposit is refundable - AFTER we sell your car.

"Ok" I say. "But my car was supposed to be here last June. Who knows when it will show up... you essentially have an open-ended arrangement to keep my money forever... you have given me no VIN, no purchase order, no invoice, no paperwork of any kind... how would even know when *my* car has come in?"

Mark: "Your beef is with Lotus... not us"

Me: "Ok, so you're asking $10k over sticker for cars you have on the lot, you have ~150 people behind me in line, yet you won't give me my money back on my REFUNDABLE deposit?"

Mark: "Nope. You picked a color, we ordered it. "

Me: "But my salesman Jerry told me the deposit was refundable and never said anything about that status changing."

Mark: (and I swear he said this): "Who cares? We've got your money"

Me: "Ok, well, if you're going to play hardball, I guess I will have to call the Better Business Bureau to protect my consumer rights, and maybe I have to have a lawyer write you folks a letter as well"

Mark: "Who cares? We've got your money now. Besides as you said, there's no paperwork. Who has a record of it?"

I'm a bit shaken by now.

Me: "Ok, Mark, well I guess this is fair warning that I will at the very least be contesting these charges with my credit card company"

Mark: "So what, we have your money" (this response is coming to be a theme.

At this point I was just struck dumb. There was a bit of a pause on the line when finally Mark piped up:

Mark: "Do not ever come to this dealership again!" (Then he hung up.)

Well, I'm not sure what to make of all of this. This isn't the SVAG that everyone has been raving about, and after this last line you can bet I'll take his advice and never set foot in SVAG ever again.

I'll be posting this in the dealer forum as well and welcome all comments as to how I might have handled this better or what I should do now. I haven't called my credit card company yet, but plan to this afternoon.

I may also write a letter to Lotus USA advising them of my situation and letting them know SVAG's attitude may be a clear indication that they are "padding" their deposit holder list to try to get more allocation.

The only "take away" I have from this is that SVAG must be expecting a MAJOR market adjustment or I can't imagine why they'd be so obstinant about returning a deposit on a car one would think they'd just mark up $5-10k and sell off the lot. Regarding market prices on the Elise, the sky is falling I suppose... you heard it here first.

- John, persona-non-grata at SVAG

[raggedy1]

I have "vouched" for SVAG's service department, but since I didn't purchase my Elise from SVAG I couldn't speak for their sales department. The sales and service departments are a couple of miles away from each other; not that the distance means anything but I just wanted to point that out.
Who owns this dealership and can you speak to him/her??? This sounds like a nightmare come true! What an ass! I'm sure the owner would love to hear how the sales manager is treating people. This does not bode well for them (SVAG). Mark needs to get his rude azz fired.

[suv_bait]

Raggedy,

Thanks for the response. I have no idea who owns the dealership; I know Mark (don't know last name) is the "GM", General Manager I would presume.

If anyone has some contact info I'd appreciate it. I don't quite have the courage to call Mark up and ask for the owner's name. :-/

Thanks again...

Best,
John

[raggedy1]

one of the san diego dealerships is supposed to be owned by the same person/group. I forgot which one but when I was calling around to place a deposit one of the San Diego dealers told me I would have to go through SVAG if I lived in NorCal as they only handled the SoCal deposits.

[Lotus Los Gatos]

The purpose of this post is to dispel the inaccuracies in John's account of this situation. First of all Silicon Valley Auto Group's company policy regarding deposits on new car orders is as follows.

The customer must place a fully refundable initial deposit to get their name on the waiting list for the car. When it comes time for the customer to place the order (pick specs and colors) the customer is required to place an addition deposit to finalize the order. At this point we believe the customer is committed to the car they have ordered and will take delivery of it.

In this instance John backed out of the deal after his car had been ordered for reasons beyond our control (delayed delivery, and price increase). Even saying this John will get his full deposit back once his car arrives and is sold. As for the green car on our lot, I bought that car from a private party for over list just to have one in stock. This was not a car we ordered. I believe we are one of the fairest Lotus dealers in the country. Unfortunately allocations, build dates, and delivery dates are out of our control as dealer. For that I am truly sorry. Lotus of Los Gatos is, and will continue to be a supporter of the Golden Gate Lotus Club.

Mark Reeve
Lotus of Los Gatos

[charliex]

i bought my first us lotus around 96 from SVAG when it used to be FOLG , they were great to me, jack was a great guy, i continued to have my car serviced up there even after i moved back to down to los angeles, the white oaks location were always friendly and helpful people. and once there was a miscommunication on ordering a set of rubber a seals, they didn't mind at all, even though it was a 2k set of rubber.

they've been servicing elises for more than 5 years from what i can remember, and other loti longer than that.

i only wish they had an equivalent service branch in la.

sorry to hear about your problems with them though, it still sucks, especially if they did say , so what we have your money, it'd be very disappointing

[Jag89]

That maybe so Mark........... but it doesn't explain why you were such an unprofessional deleted There are better ways to handle the situation and you were/are JUST WRONG!!

Glad I'm on the opposite coast! And remember, "What comes around goes around." or to say it more clearly, "Kharma's a Bitch!"

We feel for you John! We can help you get the word out about poor customer service. Hang in there!

[CALtd]

Anyone in business in CA these days should not blink at the threat of letters from or to anyone. Go down to your, local to you, court house and file a claim. Pay the $$ to have the Sheriff/Marshall deliver the notice to the dealer. Name the dealership, owner, salesperson, and sales manger in the suit. Then watch for their attitudes to change. It will cost them more to be out of the dealership waiting for the case to be called, than to refund your money. This is especially nice if they are in another county and have transportation costs.

[Abe]

In our state of California, there is so many laws protecting consumers, much more than any other state and rightfully so, since we are the car capital of the nation. That being said, In the state of California, "A DEPOSIT IS 100%, 100% suv bait, R-E-F-U-N-D-A-B-L-E!". No, if, and or but's. It is also illegal to sign a contract for a car that has not been delivered, let alone, hasn't arrived from the port yet. Keep your head-up and know that these laws do exist.


Take care,
Abraham
Lotus of Southbay

[MyElise]

There is an excellent lesson here. Why would you give someone a deposit without paperwork. If the deposit is refundable it must say so on the contract.

When I put down my deposit the guy said it was refundable. No problem till I saw the piece of paper. It said it was not refundable. I made him write that it was refundable on the invoice and initial it, as did I.

When I found another car and went back to the dealer for my refund they hemmed and hawed a bit and finally wrote me a check.

As for his behavior, for the most part...

[raggedy1]

Originally Posted by Lotus Los Gatos

The purpose of this post is to dispel the inaccuracies in John's account of this situation. First of all Silicon Valley Auto Group's company policy regarding deposits on new car orders is as follows.

The customer must place a fully refundable initial deposit to get their name on the waiting list for the car. When it comes time for the customer to place the order (pick specs and colors) the customer is required to place an addition deposit to finalize the order. At this point we believe the customer is committed to the car they have ordered and will take delivery of it.

In this instance John backed out of the deal after his car had been ordered for reasons beyond our control (delayed delivery, and price increase). Even saying this John will get his full deposit back once his car arrives and is sold. As for the green car on our lot, I bought that car from a private party for over list just to have one in stock. This was not a car we ordered. I believe we are one of the fairest Lotus dealers in the country. Unfortunately allocations, build dates, and delivery dates are out of our control as dealer. For that I am truly sorry. Lotus of Los Gatos is, and will continue to be a supporter of the Golden Gate Lotus Club.

Mark Reeve
Lotus of Los Gatos

mark reeve,
thank you for joining the forum.
do you care to answer to the allegation of unprofessionalism. If you did not treat John in the manner that he has alleged, why didn't you respond? Your silence on the matter points to your guilt (as if you took the Fifth). To basically tell someone to go pound sand is uncalled for and definitely not something I would have expected from a General Manager of a fine auto dealership. As you will learn very quickly, your policy (I won't even call it your dealership's policy) is illegal.
You might as well have had blown rasberries over the phone.

[cixelsyd]

Originally Posted by CALtd

Anyone in business in CA these days should not blink at the threat of letters from or to anyone. Go down to your, local to you, court house and file a claim. Pay the $$ to have the Sheriff/Marshall deliver the notice to the dealer. Name the dealership, owner, salesperson, and sales manger in the suit. Then watch for their attitudes to change. It will cost them more to be out of the dealership waiting for the case to be called, than to refund your money. This is especially nice if they are in another county and have transportation costs.

SUVBAIT: Sorry to hear about your experiences with that crappy dealership. I second the advice above: First, call your credit card company. Tell them that you believe you were defrauded, sold a bill of services and need them to investigate. Then head down to the courthouse and file a claim in smallclaims/criminal court (donno which this falls into, depends on the amount of money you put down)! Don't take this lying down. ESPECIALLY with the bad treatment you received on the phone with this jerk. Good luck sorting things out.



JERKO DEALERSHIP GUY: You better shape up, buddy, and treat people with respect or else its gonna take a lot of time, effort, energy, and money to sort yourself and your business out afterwards. Since you are new here, you most likely dont realize this is the number one source of breaking information and online community for the lotus Elise in America. If I were you, I would be quite concerned with negative publicity gained from making enemies on this board.

As you have not desputed the facts of the conversation you had with the deposit-holder, let me suggest you make an immediate public apology. As I see it, no permanent damage has yet been done - as long as you promptly refund the gentleman's money and apologize. Everyone has bad days.


-=cixel

[KitW]

This is amazing and I'm astounded at how poorly they treated you. I'm also really glad I didn't put down a deposit when I test drove a car, because I was ASSURED it was fully refundable.

Mark, I want to know that your attitude has assured me that I'll never step foot into SVAG again. This is coming from a guy who bought 5 sports cars this year and was real close to ordering an elise from SVAG. Too bad. That sucks.

[doma]

>Mark: (and I swear he said this): "Who cares? We've got your money"

LOL ... that's hillarious. Maybe they sold another Enzo and can afford to piss on you? *shrug*
Hope you get your refund back. Sheeze.

I like Ben & crew down at SVAG's service dept. They're pricy but polite and very good at taking care of my wheels.

(We've got your money"! LOL No class. Booo!)

[raggedy1]

BTW John,
Did they ask for additional money when you placed the order?
If not, the deposit should have been 2K.
I had my deposit refunded before placing the deposit and other than having to call them 3 times, leaving messages twice, my money was refunded.
My friend also had his deposit refunded without the drama you have faced. Perhaps Mark has tired of deposit holders pulling their money?
Whatever his problem may be, nobody should treat another person the way he has.
As someone has already stated, Karma is a Bit_h! What goes around comes around. Mark, would you treat a potential Enzo buyer like this? You may snicker that an Elise costs less than an Enzo tuneup, but everyone deserves respect. On top of that you never know who you're talking to and whether he/she may be your next Ferrari, Aston, Bentley, Saleen or Rolls Royce buyer. You have assuredly lost potential future sales for your dealership. I'm sure the owner(s) would very much appreciate to know how you've handled this as I'm sure it's just an indication of what lies beneath.

I will continue to endorse the SVAG service department. Andrew, the service manager, is very attentive and polite while Ryan, the Lotus technician, was meticulous in taking care of my car.

[SillyPuppy]

While I've got you here, Mark, would you care to answer MY complaint?

I contacted you in January about doing a test drive. It was a Friday, and I called you and you said I'd be able to. I asked if you needed my name, you said No. So the wife and I drove two hours each way in the rain to come to your dealership, and the guys there, who were absurdly rude, told me that I was not going to be allowed to do my drive. You weren't there, and no matter how many times I told then that you cleared me for it, they were adamant about not letting me drive it. You wasted our day.

Then, I called you back on Monday afterwards, to let you know what had happened, and you said you'd "Talk to your guys, and call me back". Over a month later, no response.

Are us "mere $40k-car-people" simply not worth your time? Just say so, and we'll go elsewhere.

Disappointed,
Orrie Pelc

[MattG]

As I pointed out in the other thread, there are two issues. One, the conversation quoted here. Two, the refundable deposit. As I understand it, a deposit at SVAG is fully and quickly refundable up to the point where you place an order for an actual color combination and option package - at that point, additional money is required and the deposit becomes non-refundable (or rather, as we're seeing in this case, refundable once they're able to sell the car). I don't believe this is all that unusual for California Lotus dealers, check around for yourself. For exaple, I've heard (link ) that at Newport European, for example, the original deposit was not a true 'deposit', but worded such that it was not refundable at all.

It's not always wise (or fair) to judge a company based on the actions of one employee. I had a great buying experience at SVAG, and like Doma, absolutely love their parts & service department.

[Mike Walker]

3 words...............small claims court.......you will be in and out in about the amount of time it takes to lay out your case to the judge.....trust me.

[zoey]

Here is an option you might try.

If you or the dealer cannot arrange financing for the car, the contract is canceled and any money you paid as a down-payment, including a trade-in, must be returned to you. If the dealer let you take the new car before the financing was approved, you cannot be charged for having driven the car. Unless you agree, the dealer cannot require you to have a cosigner. {Civil Code 2982.5(b) and 2982.9}

Here is a link to the full code

[jeff8875]

I stumbled on this thread so here goes...
My friend had a problem like this where her engine blew (under warranty) they told her she never changed the oil in the 26k miles she had the car. She brought in the reciepts for ALL her oil changes plus there was a sticker on the car showing the oil had been changed 1k miles previously. NOPE they said they would do nothing.... new (used) engine and 5K dollars later....she turned the lease in.

Suvbait, same thing I told her, had this been me... I would have gotten a huge sandwich sign (the kind you wear) and stood out side thier dealership for a week telling everyone of my experience.
No crime there and as long as you are on public prop they cant make you leave. I GUARANTEE you will make them loose money.... I would hand out flyers everything.... I doubt it would take longer then a few hours the first day. and what does tadts mean? lol