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Old 03-05-2012, 04:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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LSD and auto-x question

For a serious competitor, I assume an LSD is required for SS correct?

Also, was a LSD an option in an 05 Elise, or just 06+? Was the LSD part of the track package only? Are 06 Elise's with a LSD hard to find?

Sorry for all the "LSD" questions, I am trying to determine which type of Elise is the best platform to start with. I am a long term M3 owner who is sick of SCCA classing for the M3's.......plus I want to go back to my routes and get a British car
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I've been lurking on this forum and have researched your question to a sickening degree.

Yes, LSD was an option in late 2005 and delivered on 50 cars thus making it SCCA Super Stock class (SS) legal. In every instance LSD includes traction control (TC) with the TC switch positioned very close to the shifter which may be accidently triggered by your knee during spirited driving. A solution for this is to cover it with a plastic bottle cap and tape.

LSD is a stand-alone option costing about $2,000 from the factory. There are no other prerequisites meaning you may find LSD on a non-sport and/or non track-package car.

As far as the best SCCA platform to start with I believe the recommendation would be for a 2006 Elise with Sport Package (wider front wheels and twin oil coolers), Track Package (adjustable suspension, adjustable front anti-sway bar, rear suspension brace, harness bar), and LSD. Touring Package has no benefit or detriment for racing and technically you could probably do without the hard top as well.

Finally, as a serious competitor yes you do want LSD as there is no other way to eliminate inside rear wheel spin coming out of tight turns. You can and I myself hope to be competitive without it but we're not going to win nationals without it.

They are a rare find but not impossible. See this post and I believe this car was recently on Ebay:

Good luck in your search!
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
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thanks for the info
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Old 03-06-2012, 04:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
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You do not want the track pack for autocross. Double adjustable shocks are allowed in stock class so you can add them, but you have to use the stock springs. To my understanding the top guys have tried the track pack springs which have a progressive rate and have not been able to make them work well. The LSS springs with the shock of your choice are the way to go. Front sway bar is also open in stock class and the track pack one isn't stiff enough anyway so get in touch with Blackwatch racing.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:42 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I agree with lancer360. The LSS springs are the way to go. We have an SCCA bar that is good for SS getting the roll stiffness in the front working. For the LSD, I would recommend the Toyota LSD which is the same as the Lotus. Make sure to set bearing pre-load correctly. I've helped change a transmission at the last 3 Solo nationals! Not fun.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:34 AM   #6 (permalink)
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i'm partial to the '05 w/ LSS, LSD/TC retrofit, Ohlins DA remote reservoir shocks, BWR hardcore FSB, BOE ST-5 exhaust and CT AX6 pads myself

not sure how the 06+ elise compares in weight, but mine is 1860 w/ LSS-sized SSRs and 205/245 A6s mounted. and somehow, the baffles in the fuel tank still seem to be working because i can run the car down to 1 gallon of gas and not still not fuel starve!

but to answer the original question, if you can find an '05 with LSD/TC retrofit, i think you're barking up the right tree.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:55 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Adding LSD is about $1100 installed, so dont let that be the deciding factor in your car purchase.

I would also like to add that you can't accidentally disable traction control with your knee like naloise said. The button faces up. In fact, I would like to see you intentionally hit that switch with your knee naloise !!
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Old 03-06-2012, 04:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hello Kitty View Post
Adding LSD is about $1100 installed, so dont let that be the deciding factor in your car purchase.

I would also like to add that you can't accidentally disable traction control with your knee like naloise said. The button faces up. In fact, I would like to see you intentionally hit that switch with your knee naloise !!
Ha, that is simply what I've read on this forum. Put a gun to my head and ask me to find that thread and I probably can't and yes I agree that it would seem impossible to inadvertently trigger an upward facing switch with one's knee while seated. In any event where can I get LSD installed for $1,100? Does that include parts or labour only?
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Last edited by naloise; 03-06-2012 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 03-06-2012, 04:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naloise View Post
Ha, that is simply what I've read on this forum. Put a gun to my head and ask my to find that thread and I probably can't and yes I agree that it would seem impossible to inadvertently trigger an upward facing switch with one's knee while seated. In any event where can I get LSD installed for $1,100? Does that include parts or labour only?
you assume one's knees aren't sky-high above the center console, and won't act like a pendulum under high-G cornering
i can personally attest to hitting the TC button on more than one occasion while autox'ing. it happens, and it's very inconvenient when it does!!
the bottle cap trick is very effective though
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
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When I bought my toyota LSD from monkey wrench, it cost $800, but now its $1500 for some reason. Call toyota dealership, and see how much they sell it for. The quaife helical is the same thing for $1070. Installation is approx $300.
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I've actually found my TC enabled at the end of an auto-x 'session'. Some say my knees are triple jointed and I naturally face magnetic north...All I know is the traction control was back on at the end of my race.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hello Kitty View Post
Adding LSD is about $1100 installed, so dont let that be the deciding factor in your car purchase.

I would also like to add that you can't accidentally disable traction control with your knee like naloise said. The button faces up. In fact, I would like to see you intentionally hit that switch with your knee naloise !!
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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no one is going to install an LSD for $300 unless you're offering something on the side. At minimum the install will probably cost as much as the LSD.
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:17 AM   #13 (permalink)
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so, from what I am reading, was the LSD a rare option on the Elise?
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:34 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I don't have any evidence to back it up.... I'm not sure rare is the right word, but I do think there are more open diff cars than LSD. Rare for 2005 is probably true though.
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:34 AM   #15 (permalink)
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In an '05 it is extremely rare to find it from the factory. Like was said previously only the last 50 or so '05 cars had it.

$300 sounds about right if you are only paying for the install of the LSD into the tranny and doing the tranny removal and install on the car yourelf. If you pay a shop to do the entire job, then I could see it costing as much as the LSD.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:21 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lancer360 View Post
The LSS springs with the shock of your choice are the way to go. Front sway bar is also open in stock class and the track pack one isn't stiff enough anyway so get in touch with Blackwatch racing.
forgive my ignorance, but what are the "LSS" springs? Are they part of the sport package?

Thanks,
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:23 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Yes, they are the springs that come with the LSS option pack.
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman Resu View Post
forgive my ignorance, but what are the "LSS" springs? Are they part of the sport package?

Thanks,
Matt
LSS = Lotus Sport Suspension, an option including springs and shocks that are 10% stiffer than base, forged alloy wheels, 6.5" wide front wheels (6" on later model years) vs. 5.5" on Base, a second oil cooler, and Yoko A048 R-Compound tires.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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FWIW Aston-Martin Lotus of New England quoted me a $3400 install for LSD+clutch. (them doing all work, 25h, no parts included). I'm going to re-ask that question with a print out of some of the threads here, or find someone else to do it... Sounds high by at least 10h.

If they already pulled the trany for an LSD, the clutch should only be an hour or two at most right?
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I haven't posted in the parts section yet but I have a spare used tranny with a factory LSD that I have been thinking of putting a OS Giken LSD in if so I'd sell the LSD for a pretty good price. The other option is I'd swap someone my LSD tranny for a non plus some $ as I will be tearing it apart for the OSG anyway, it seems a shame to break open a good LSD tranny.
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