Rear Camber - LotusTalk

codingparadox · 01-17-2009, 03:58 PM

I picked up a pre-prepped Elise (edit: for SS Autocross) a few months ago. I did very well at the first few events with it and am looking forward to the coming season. However, I need to bring it in for a full alignment soon. I know the front gets 0.8 camber on both sides, but how much rear camber do people tend to run? I'm about to switch to the mondo huge new BWR front bar, so I can probably end up getting away with a little less rear camber, but we'll see. Curious where to start. Suggestions? I don't know what the current setting is.

carl · 01-17-2009, 05:56 PM

shave the arms 4mm and set the front @-1.8--2.0 and the rear - 2.4--2.6 toe 0 f and .125 r. carl

codingparadox · 01-17-2009, 06:01 PM

... Needs to be stock legal for autocross...

Randy Chase · 01-17-2009, 06:01 PM

He is running SS in SCCA so shaving the arms is not allowed.

Front should be maxed out. We found at with the fronts at .6-.8 neg, the rears did not work as well beyond around -1.5. YMMV. This was with Hoosier A6 tires.

Green Ghost · 01-17-2009, 06:08 PM

Just wondering. How would anyone know if you have shaved the arms?

LehmanZ06 · 01-17-2009, 07:05 PM

then there wouldn't be any hair ....duh....

apk919 · 01-17-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Chase

He is running SS in SCCA so shaving the arms is not allowed.

Front should be maxed out. We found at with the fronts at .6-.8 neg, the rears did not work as well beyond around -1.5. YMMV. This was with Hoosier A6 tires.

Randy, the service manual quotes -2.0 to -2.7 degrees rear camber for the LSS suspension with -2.5 optimum... but of course that's for the stock A048's... was your camber setting a function of the Hoosiers, or spring rates, etc?

Randy Chase · 01-17-2009, 07:22 PM

I am working from potentially faulty memory, but I know we pulled all the shims in the rear and the car oversteered more on the Hoosiers. We concluded that the front-rear was too different based on input from someone, so we put shims back in. I don't think it was over 2.

apk919 · 01-17-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Chase

I am working from potentially faulty memory, but I know we pulled all the shims in the rear and the car oversteered more on the Hoosiers. We concluded that the front-rear was too different based on input from someone, so we put shims back in. I don't think it was over 2.

OK... my rear camber is -2.2 and I still have at least 2 shims left per side... pulling them all would probably make the camber -2.8 and that does seem a bit high (given that I'm at about -0.9 on the fronts with all the shims out except the speed sensor shim). I feel the car is slightly biased toward understeer...

fitfan · 01-17-2009, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carl

shave the arms 4mm and set the front @-1.8--2.0 and the rear - 2.4--2.6 toe 0 f and .125 r. carl

thats toe IN on the rear ...right?

Randy Chase · 01-17-2009, 11:24 PM

Tes, toe out would be bad. That (IMO) should also be total, as in 1/16" per side.

Surferjer · 01-18-2009, 04:43 AM

I ran -2.25 degrees in each side in the back and that was a great spot for the car. I could have gotten all the way to -3, but that wasn't as good as -2.25. Hope that helps.

On toe in, I settled on 1/16 total toe in, 1/32 in on each side. Others ran more.

stubble88 · 01-21-2009, 08:07 PM

I would take Randy's advice
but this is what I did
got this setting from John K LA region SS champion in an Elise.

Im set at all shims removed on the front for max camber
left the rears shims alone.
4 mm total toe in on the rear (2mm each side)
0 mm toe on the front
Lowered all the way down (track pack only) then raise or lower for corner balance.
2 clicks front and 1 on the back ( I might play with this though)
BWR front sway bar set to one back from full stiff.

I have yet to max out the front caster, which Im told helps.

I have yet to test these settings in my Exige S, but I think its a good place to start.

codingparadox · 01-22-2009, 04:18 PM

... 4 degrees toe? You might want to check on those numbers...

With less rear camber, you can get power down better. More camber = more power oversteer but less midcorner oversteer. It's all a trade. If you look at formula 1 cars they're running crazy front camber and very little rear camber, since it's all about putting the power down. I'll probably start around 1.5 and go from there, it sounds like.

stubble88 · 01-22-2009, 04:19 PM

ooops 4 mm total toe in
2mm each side
sorry

Randy Chase · 01-22-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stubble88

I would take Randy's advice
but this is what I did
got this setting from John K LA region SS champion in an Elise.

Im set at all shims removed on the front for max camber
left the rears shims alone.
4 mm total toe in on the rear
0 mm toe on the front
Lowered all the way down (track pack only) then raise or lower for corner balance.
2 clicks front and 1 on the back ( I might play with this though)
BWR front sway bar set to one back from full stiff.

I have yet to max out the from caster, which Im told helps.

I have yet to test these settings in my Exige S, but I think its a good place to start.

That is pretty close to what we ran. I took my advice from Pat Salerno and Brian Connors.

codingparadox · 01-24-2009, 07:15 PM

I don't have the track pack, fortunately, so I get to deal with stock ride height. ;-)

Slipstreamer · 01-29-2009, 06:47 PM

I might be mistaken but corner balancing is only legal in ASP+, and not in SS (where the stock height is changed).

codingparadox · 01-29-2009, 06:49 PM

The track pack comes with adjustable height perches from the factory, so it's allowed.

Slipstreamer · 01-29-2009, 07:07 PM

My bad. Ride height adjustment in track packs are allowed.

01-17-2009, 03:58 PM	#1 (permalink)
codingparadox Newbie Elise Owner Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 91	Rear Camber I picked up a pre-prepped Elise (edit: for SS Autocross) a few months ago. I did very well at the first few events with it and am looking forward to the coming season. However, I need to bring it in for a full alignment soon. I know the front gets 0.8 camber on both sides, but how much rear camber do people tend to run? I'm about to switch to the mondo huge new BWR front bar, so I can probably end up getting away with a little less rear camber, but we'll see. Curious where to start. Suggestions? I don't know what the current setting is. __________________ 2006 Lotus Elise - SS Autocross 2006 Mazda RX-8 - For Sale! Buy me! 1992 Mazda Miata - Spec Miata Club Racer 1994 Mazda Miata - DD when I'm scared to take the Elise out 1994 GMC Suburban - Gets the Miata and Elise to their respective tracks http://akilla.net/pics/sig.jpg Last edited by codingparadox : 01-17-2009 at 06:01 PM.

01-17-2009, 05:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
carl Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,050	shave the arms 4mm and set the front @-1.8--2.0 and the rear - 2.4--2.6 toe 0 f and .125 r. carl __________________ User formerly known as 4carl

01-17-2009, 06:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
codingparadox Newbie Elise Owner Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 91	... Needs to be stock legal for autocross... __________________ 2006 Lotus Elise - SS Autocross 2006 Mazda RX-8 - For Sale! Buy me! 1992 Mazda Miata - Spec Miata Club Racer 1994 Mazda Miata - DD when I'm scared to take the Elise out 1994 GMC Suburban - Gets the Miata and Elise to their respective tracks http://akilla.net/pics/sig.jpg

01-17-2009, 06:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
Randy Chase Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Diego and where ever the roads lead Posts: 28,174 Images: 761	He is running SS in SCCA so shaving the arms is not allowed. Front should be maxed out. We found at with the fronts at .6-.8 neg, the rears did not work as well beyond around -1.5. YMMV. This was with Hoosier A6 tires. __________________ * V E R I T A S * A E Q U I T A S * No Longer the ADMIN here, please do not PM me asking for help. Thanks! 2006 Noble M400. Getrag tranny, Quaiffe LSD, Hinged clams. Duratec dual turbo V6. Hoosier 315-18 tires. 2350 pounds. Over 500hp. Track weapon. 2009 Rossion Q1. Monaco Orange. Wing. Black leather/Alcantara with orange stitching. The street car. In build: 2009 Toniq R (300whp? 1100 pounds?). Chrome Orange. Lexus GX-470 tow vehicle.

01-17-2009, 07:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
Randy Chase Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Diego and where ever the roads lead Posts: 28,174 Images: 761	I am working from potentially faulty memory, but I know we pulled all the shims in the rear and the car oversteered more on the Hoosiers. We concluded that the front-rear was too different based on input from someone, so we put shims back in. I don't think it was over 2. __________________ * V E R I T A S * A E Q U I T A S * No Longer the ADMIN here, please do not PM me asking for help. Thanks! 2006 Noble M400. Getrag tranny, Quaiffe LSD, Hinged clams. Duratec dual turbo V6. Hoosier 315-18 tires. 2350 pounds. Over 500hp. Track weapon. 2009 Rossion Q1. Monaco Orange. Wing. Black leather/Alcantara with orange stitching. The street car. In build: 2009 Toniq R (300whp? 1100 pounds?). Chrome Orange. Lexus GX-470 tow vehicle.

01-17-2009, 06:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
Green Ghost Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: orange county Posts: 1,184 Images: 26	Just wondering. How would anyone know if you have shaved the arms?

01-17-2009, 07:05 PM	#6 (permalink)
LehmanZ06 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 330	then there wouldn't be any hair ....duh....

01-17-2009, 11:24 PM	#11 (permalink)
Randy Chase Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Diego and where ever the roads lead Posts: 28,174 Images: 761	Tes, toe out would be bad. That (IMO) should also be total, as in 1/16" per side. __________________ * V E R I T A S * A E Q U I T A S * No Longer the ADMIN here, please do not PM me asking for help. Thanks! 2006 Noble M400. Getrag tranny, Quaiffe LSD, Hinged clams. Duratec dual turbo V6. Hoosier 315-18 tires. 2350 pounds. Over 500hp. Track weapon. 2009 Rossion Q1. Monaco Orange. Wing. Black leather/Alcantara with orange stitching. The street car. In build: 2009 Toniq R (300whp? 1100 pounds?). Chrome Orange. Lexus GX-470 tow vehicle.

01-18-2009, 04:43 AM	#12 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,885	I ran -2.25 degrees in each side in the back and that was a great spot for the car. I could have gotten all the way to -3, but that wasn't as good as -2.25. Hope that helps. On toe in, I settled on 1/16 total toe in, 1/32 in on each side. Others ran more. __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

01-21-2009, 08:07 PM	#13 (permalink)
stubble88 car Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 242	I would take Randy's advice but this is what I did got this setting from John K LA region SS champion in an Elise. Im set at all shims removed on the front for max camber left the rears shims alone. 4 mm total toe in on the rear (2mm each side) 0 mm toe on the front Lowered all the way down (track pack only) then raise or lower for corner balance. 2 clicks front and 1 on the back ( I might play with this though) BWR front sway bar set to one back from full stiff. I have yet to max out the front caster, which Im told helps. I have yet to test these settings in my Exige S, but I think its a good place to start. __________________ 1993 Mazda RX7 R1 2009 Scion XD 2007 Lotus Exige S arctic Silver, lsd, track pack, touring, FOR SALE Last edited by stubble88 : 01-22-2009 at 04:28 PM.

01-22-2009, 04:18 PM	#14 (permalink)
codingparadox Newbie Elise Owner Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 91	... 4 degrees toe? You might want to check on those numbers... With less rear camber, you can get power down better. More camber = more power oversteer but less midcorner oversteer. It's all a trade. If you look at formula 1 cars they're running crazy front camber and very little rear camber, since it's all about putting the power down. I'll probably start around 1.5 and go from there, it sounds like. __________________ 2006 Lotus Elise - SS Autocross 2006 Mazda RX-8 - For Sale! Buy me! 1992 Mazda Miata - Spec Miata Club Racer 1994 Mazda Miata - DD when I'm scared to take the Elise out 1994 GMC Suburban - Gets the Miata and Elise to their respective tracks http://akilla.net/pics/sig.jpg

01-22-2009, 04:19 PM	#15 (permalink)
stubble88 car Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Glendale CA Posts: 242	ooops 4 mm total toe in 2mm each side sorry __________________ 1993 Mazda RX7 R1 2009 Scion XD 2007 Lotus Exige S arctic Silver, lsd, track pack, touring, FOR SALE

01-24-2009, 07:15 PM	#17 (permalink)
codingparadox Newbie Elise Owner Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 91	I don't have the track pack, fortunately, so I get to deal with stock ride height. ;-) __________________ 2006 Lotus Elise - SS Autocross 2006 Mazda RX-8 - For Sale! Buy me! 1992 Mazda Miata - Spec Miata Club Racer 1994 Mazda Miata - DD when I'm scared to take the Elise out 1994 GMC Suburban - Gets the Miata and Elise to their respective tracks http://akilla.net/pics/sig.jpg

01-29-2009, 06:47 PM	#18 (permalink)
Slipstreamer Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 202	I might be mistaken but corner balancing is only legal in ASP+, and not in SS (where the stock height is changed). __________________ '05 ELISE Storm Titanium LSS/TP/HT/Dual Oil Coolers/Starshield/Raptor Racing exhaust XP111 (LBH)/BWR 7/8" Anti Roll Bar "Smooth is fast, but fast is quicker"

01-29-2009, 06:49 PM	#19 (permalink)
codingparadox Newbie Elise Owner Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 91	The track pack comes with adjustable height perches from the factory, so it's allowed. __________________ 2006 Lotus Elise - SS Autocross 2006 Mazda RX-8 - For Sale! Buy me! 1992 Mazda Miata - Spec Miata Club Racer 1994 Mazda Miata - DD when I'm scared to take the Elise out 1994 GMC Suburban - Gets the Miata and Elise to their respective tracks http://akilla.net/pics/sig.jpg

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01-29-2009, 07:07 PM	#20 (permalink)
Slipstreamer Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 202	My bad. Ride height adjustment in track packs are allowed. __________________ '05 ELISE Storm Titanium LSS/TP/HT/Dual Oil Coolers/Starshield/Raptor Racing exhaust XP111 (LBH)/BWR 7/8" Anti Roll Bar "Smooth is fast, but fast is quicker"