Rivals on the Front of an Elise? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
LotusTalk.com is the premier Lotus Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-24-2013, 10:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 203
Rivals on the Front of an Elise?

The only size that's close in the new BFG Rivals is a 225-45-16. Has anyone tried to stuff one of these on the front of an Elise on a 6.5" rim?
Interested in these tires for Autocrossing, but not sure it's gonna work.....
Washburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-25-2013, 10:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
glagola1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 382
Don't do it. Run Toyos.

Just get rid of them around 4/32s because everything but the 195 is made with two compounds and the hard compound appears around 2/32 and the good stuff needs about 2/32 to work well.

I've run the Star Specs on the Elise and was less than impressed with them. I think the Toyo responds well to a lighter car and the other tires work well on heavy cars. What do they call that? The load sensitivity of a tire?
glagola1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 10:07 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
glagola1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 382
I will be buying some Toyos for my cheap ass rain set up... at least until I can afford to get some new wheels to mount H2Os.
glagola1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 10:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
glagola1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 382
Additionally, I think the traction circle characteristics and the break away characteristics of the R1R will suit the Elise very well. The R1R has phenomenal longitudinal grip vs. the competition and it's clearly the most tolerant of large slip angles. This will allow over driving with out heavy penalty.
glagola1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 03:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
glb
Registered User
 
glb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chester, NJ
Posts: 7,084
To answer your question:

All tire mfgrs show charts indicating the largest and smaller wheel widths their tires will work on.

Tire Rack also shows this info.

I've not heard of these Rivals...thought dog food...but I do like my Bridgestone RE11s.
__________________
05 elise (PES chip, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS

Driving Tips-http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f100...art-1-a-49665/
Moss Emergency Line-http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f100...cy-line-36631/
Safely Piercing Wires-http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f129...esting-106438/
Securing cockpit wires-http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f92/...ockpit-104157/
glb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 07:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 100
Will they physically fit on your wheels, yes. Will they rub, probably your wheel liners. Stock tire is 23.6 dia, rival is 24.9. They have received good reviews, but most of those reviews are from people sponsored by bfg. I'm waiting for a none biased review. Grass roots magazine is supposed to test them in the next issue. I might try these with a 15/17 setup next season.
bcpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2013, 08:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
<@@>'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Memphis - right now
Posts: 2,760
Images: 6
Garage
I was looking to install 8" wide wheels on the front of my Exige. So I took a rear wheel off and mounted it on the front. Rears have 38-mm offset and fronts have 31-mm. The only place they touch is the sway-bar on full lock. If the correct 31-mm offset wheel is used, it probably will not touch.
__________________
All I want out of life are the keys to Jay Leno's Garage...

A man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions.
[Oliver Wendell Holmes]
<@@> is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 03:18 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 100
Also, if you run 225F/245R you are changing the ratio of diameters from front to back by over 5%. This might cause problems with abs and traction control if you have it.
bcpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 04:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
<@@>'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Memphis - right now
Posts: 2,760
Images: 6
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcpower View Post
Also, if you run 225F/245R you are changing the ratio of diameters from front to back by over 5%. This might cause problems with abs and traction control if you have it.
The 225 and 245 have nothing to do with the diameter of the tire and therefore nothing to do with abs or traction control.
__________________
All I want out of life are the keys to Jay Leno's Garage...

A man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions.
[Oliver Wendell Holmes]
<@@> is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2013, 10:03 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by <@@> View Post
The 225 and 245 have nothing to do with the diameter of the tire and therefore nothing to do with abs or traction control.
Ok, let me elaborate a little more.

You are correct that the 225/245 width has nothing to do with the diameter but, we are talking about the BFG Rivals right? They only offer one size for a 16" wheel 225/50/16 which is 24.9" diameter. They only offer one 245 in a 17" a 245/40/17 which is 24.7" diameter.

Comparing that to 195/50/16 at 23.6" and 225/45/17 at 24.9"

(23.6/24.9)*100=94.78%
(24.9/24.7)*100=100.81%

6.03% change from stock ratio of front to rear diameters.
bcpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 09:28 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 203
Awesome info, BC. So...that's going to cause issues with ABS? (I have no traction control) What type of issues? (Recall, this is AX only, not a street setup) Thanks!!
Washburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 04:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
holmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Antipodes
Posts: 1,977
Images: 5
Why run those Rivals for autocross?
The wear rating is 200, and I would have been under the impression that a wear rating 40-60 tire would be more grippy than a 200.
Something like the A6s seem to be popular, or the Khumo V70/v700s, or DZ03 dunlops (in supersoft and soft).

Secondly, the 6.5 rims seem a bit narrow for 205s, compared to 8" fronts. For 225s it would be worse.

Would you be better off chasing the right compounds than chasing the weird sizes?
holmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 09:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Subparpunk03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by holmz View Post
Why run those Rivals for autocross?
The wear rating is 200, and I would have been under the impression that a wear rating 40-60 tire would be more grippy than a 200.
Something like the A6s seem to be popular, or the Khumo V70/v700s, or DZ03 dunlops (in supersoft and soft).

Secondly, the 6.5 rims seem a bit narrow for 205s, compared to 8" fronts. For 225s it would be worse.

Would you be better off chasing the right compounds than chasing the weird sizes?
Those rivals are actually a pretty amazing for a street tire. Yeah a full slick might be faster ultimately, but for Autocross, there's something to be said for running in street tire class and not having to swap tires and keeping things cheap and simple.
__________________
2006 Lotus Elise: The race car.
2010 Toyota XRunner: The quality DD.
1999 B4000: The beater. *sold*
2007 Mazdaspeed 3: The impulse buy. *sold*
2005 Corolla XRS: The first. *sold*
Subparpunk03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 09:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Subparpunk03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 200
And fwiw, I run A6's when I auto-X locally, but I try to travel around almost every weekend and when I go to events in other regions I use street tires (Finishing off this set of dunlop Z1s, then switching to r888s.)

The hoosiers are the way to go if you can swing it. But I'm still thoroughly enjoying my dunlops.
__________________
2006 Lotus Elise: The race car.
2010 Toyota XRunner: The quality DD.
1999 B4000: The beater. *sold*
2007 Mazdaspeed 3: The impulse buy. *sold*
2005 Corolla XRS: The first. *sold*
Subparpunk03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 03:34 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Washburn View Post
Awesome info, BC. So...that's going to cause issues with ABS? (I have no traction control) What type of issues? (Recall, this is AX only, not a street setup) Thanks!!
I can't find the proof to say 100% sure that it will cause issues, but I do remember reading about it on here. Try searching to see if you can confirm me. Also when I was asking other lotus people about how my brakes were not working sometimes (Ice Mode, I didn't know what it was at the time) the first questions they asked were did I change the diameter of the front tires, older front tires than the rear, or stiff shocks/springs up front?

I personally wouldn't go with the 225/45/16. I'm going to wait until the rules proposals are more or less definite changes, then I'll be going down to a 15x6.5 front wheel so I can run 225/45/15 and have my choice of RS-3, R1R, or Rivals.

Holmz: SCCA is proposing getting rid of r-comps in stock classes. Although they are keeping the r-comps in SS, the elise will be well suited for the new street tire class.
bcpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 07:30 AM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 203
I am restricted by the rules. I am prepping for the RTR class....so, 200 treadwear, stock wheel sizes. The Rivals have been beating all the competition in the tests. I have a great deal of experience with the R1R's, and they wear very quickly, and with these sizes, they will fall off at some point due to the dual compound construction. I just don't like that.

I want to try to find a setup that no one else is using, and like the idea of trying to make these work. So....my choices are very limited, and I am quite restricted by the rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by holmz View Post
Why run those Rivals for autocross?
The wear rating is 200, and I would have been under the impression that a wear rating 40-60 tire would be more grippy than a 200.
Something like the A6s seem to be popular, or the Khumo V70/v700s, or DZ03 dunlops (in supersoft and soft).

Secondly, the 6.5 rims seem a bit narrow for 205s, compared to 8" fronts. For 225s it would be worse.

Would you be better off chasing the right compounds than chasing the weird sizes?
Washburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2013, 09:52 AM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 203
Copied over from the suspension thread....

Did a little testing on Sunday. Hmmm....

No ABS interference that I could detect. My test comprised of taking the OEM size rear wheel/tire that I have extra, and putting them on the front. So....with a 225-45-17 on the front on a 7.5" rear wheel, and 235-45-17 on rear (same size rear wheel), I could not detect the ABS doing anything funky. I did some typical autocrossy type stuff, then a very high speed threshold brake zone on a slight bend.

Now, the type of tires were pretty different in that their grip levels were a lot less than the rears, and I could easily get some minor lock up in the front, but the ABS was pretty aggressive and allowed a fair amount of scrub. (The way I like it) Could not induce ice mode. I'm not sure this car has an Ice Mode.

There was rubbing up front, as mentioned there would be, but......most of the rubbing was on the fender liners, and under the spot where it was rubbing, the liner was quite far away from the structure itself. Like a "bubble" in the liner that was being rubbed, but not any actual bodywork. If I removed the liners, there would likely be no rubbing. There was some inside rubbing at full lock too, but during my little test I decided that this amount of lock would rarely be seen at an autocross. This type of rubbing was harmless.

So....I am still considering this setup closely. My problem is that I STILL cannot find front wheels. I never imagined I would have this much trouble. May have to get creative with spacers and a different offset wheel.

Anyway, wanted to report back about the ABS.....I'm not where this information came from, but real life testing so far says there is not foundation to it. Comments?
Washburn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2013, 05:14 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 21
We run Rivals on our STi in STU... We've run StarSpecs in the past but I find the Rivals to be faster and more predictable. Also, BFG has contingency awards at the SCCA solo national level that other street tire makers don't offer!
mport68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 01:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Formulabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Michigan and Florida
Posts: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Washburn View Post
Copied over from the suspension thread....

Anyway, wanted to report back about the ABS.....I'm not where this information came from, but real life testing so far says there is not foundation to it. Comments?
This subject and responses probably should be a separate thread. My comments are: 1) testing is good, but without detail that shows the validity of the tests they are just your experience and not universal truths, in particular 2) those with an Elige that have experienced ABS intervention that seems to be "ice mode" are just as convinced by their experience that it does exist as you are that it doesn't.

If you have lots of time and interest in "ice mode" read this Rennlist thread -- it has several Lotus references. well, ABS Ice Mode finally got me... - Rennlist Discussion Forums
__________________
2008 Solar Yellow Exige S240
1991 Elan M100
2013 Ford Escape
Formulabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 06:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Gunpilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Enterprise AL
Posts: 2,244
Images: 42
I just mounted 225/45/16 A6's on a 6.5 LSS wheels. Have not had a chance to try them but they fit fine. Up until now I was running 205's.

Have fun with RTR. I like SSP to much and don't think I could go back after having so much grip.
__________________
2007 Exige mental track toy.
2005 Elise.

"Listen up, I ain't Captain Walker. I'm the guy who carries Mr. Dead in his pocket."

"CHARLIE DON'T SURF"
Gunpilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Motorsports > Solo timed events



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.