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Seat Rebuild with Kemmler Air2Gel Foam

84K views 125 replies 40 participants last post by  Brandonm84 
#1 ·
Like a bunch of people here, I wasn't really satisfied with the seats on my '05. For short periods they were ok, but after a couple of hours the thin butt-padding and poorly placed lumbar support was really detracting from the fun of driving the car. I sat in a couple of '06 (both Elise and Exige) cars and wasn't impressed by the Probax seats. I've been playing around with my seats for some time and am REALLY pleased with them now. What I did was to reposition the lumbar bladder and use Kemmler Air2Gel foam in 3/8 and 1/8 inch thicknesses to pad and contour the seat.

First, I slowly peeled back the upholstery from the top (unsnap the fasteners first). The bottom cushion had foam that was easy to rip up when separated from the seat, so I used a utility knife to slice it away from the seat shell, almost like scraping a sticker off of the inside of a windshield. I covered the foam with duct tape to keep it from disintegrating (just separating it from the seat made a huge mess) and to give me a stable surface to reattach it to the seat base with tape or glue. Next, I moved the lumbar support. There is an old post showing that it can be slid down an inch or two, but this wasn't going to work for me. I wanted to move it down by drilling a new hole and re-attaching the tube, but it didn't seem to be possible without destroying the bladder and having the dealer replace it. So what I did was to flip the bladder over. The surface facing the upholstery was folded down, and became the surface attached to the seat shell. By doing this, the inflation tube didn't move. For my frame (5'8" and 160lbs) this was 1000% better:


The "x" is masking tape to make it easier to see the new position.

This is a little hard to see, but it shows how the tube from the bladder goes straight into the existing hole in the seat:


I started the padding by using 3/8" Air2Gel (it's brown) on the bottom of the seat, beginning with a strip over the metal which is molded into the shell. The larger piece goes from there to a spot part-way up the backrest. The first try used a piece all the way up to the fiberboard; what I have here is the last of about 25 configurations. This shows the metal strip in the seat, its foam covering, and the front edge of the big piece:


I cut the original foam piece into several sections to play with the positioning and to test where (or if) I would double them up. The foam is amazingly dense, and one layer would be fine- except in the lumbar/backrest. area. I tried a second layer, but had two problems: 3/8" was too much padding, at least in this density, and second, the foam is impossible to cut on a beveled angle. I was able to make a partial cut, but the foam crumbled under the next cut. a straight-through cut is no problem, though. It is so dense that it can dull a utility knife blade significantly after only one pass of the blade. So the chance of my butt wearing it out is about zero. This behavior of the foam was confirmed by Kemmler. (I can't remember the name of the guy I spoke to several times, but he has been a great help in doing this).

The rest of the padding is 1/8" Air2Gel. It is much softer, even when stacked up to make a 3/8 or 1/2" piece. It can also be cut with scissors. This picture is of the first piece of 1/8" foam, which goes from the top of the thicker sheet up to the spot where the fiberboard support for the leather begins. There is a lot of masking tape visible which I used as reference points:


Next, I ended up placing strips of the thinner foam in overlapping positions to build up the back. Surprisingly, the edges of the leather on the frame helped contour the foam upwards to cradle the sides of my back. This shows all of the thinner padding in place from above. On the left, the duct tape covering the OEM foam is visible:


Here's the reassembled seat:


And the stock seat:


This is easier to see the difference; the modified seat is the one farthest away:

It may look a little strange, but the lumbar support (not inflated here) helps a lot on the bottom, and the combination I ended up with makes me feel like I'm sitting up straighter like the Probax seat is supposed to.

Finally, here are all of the pieces laid out in their order of assembly and in their final positions, except that the far right piece ended up being an inch lower:

Now, I love my seats. :D The impact resistance of the 3/8" foam makes the car seem like it is smoother on bad pavement, and the 1/8" layers make a night-and-day difference- the seats almost seem cushy compared to the way they came.

A few other details:

I used contact cement for the final assembly of my foam, the reattachment of the lumbar support and the leather. The upholstery was reattached with double-stick carpet tape. It will allow easy removal of the leather in case I want to tweak the seats later.

Pull the leather towards the center of the seat when reattaching it after moving the bladder. It will prevent wrinkles on the side bolsters.

I found that UPS type packing tape worked best to position the foam in place when experimenting. It comes off easily without damaging the foam, unlike duct tape, and holds well, unlike masking tape.

The cost including the tape and glue was less than $100. It did take a Long time, but after a dozen tries, it fell into place pretty quickly. It may not work for everyone, but I thought it was worth a try.

Brian

PS-I can't seem to make the photos appear in the thread...anyone?

edited to fix image links, randy
 
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#83 ·
Reach with your fingers around the top of the 'pad' that detaches. You will feel a hard plastic plate. Pull gently but with constant pressure on that plate, the fasteners are on the plate that hold it against the seat.
 
#84 ·
Thanks, that makes sense! One more thing, does the center seat pad come off entirely? Or do you leave it connected to the bottom while you're gluing the foam in? I'm assuming it comes off entirely, but can't really tell from the pictures. How do you reconnect this after? Are there fasteners on the bottom as well?

Thanks and sorry for the noob questions! Want to make sure I fully understand this before I give it a shot. :)
 
#85 ·
It is glued on :) Yes, you can take the whole thing off, much easier to work on and glue the padding back in. I used contact cement to glue the leather to the padding, then the whole 'seat cushin' back onto the chair. For the front 'flap,' the trick is to push the 'butt curve' in, let the rest of the seat dry, THEN cement the front flap down, otherwise you end up with a bulgy chair.

You can get contact cement and the cheapest paint brush you can find at your local hardware store, it was less than $10 for both at Lowes for me.
 
#86 ·
I took the seats out of the car first thing. I then peeled the leather off of the padding and the plastic seat starting from the bottom and going up the seat. When I reached the top buttons- fasterners you're asking about I just folded the leather over then on the top of the seat. I then took the NEW padding and pushed it up under the buttons and the glued it all onto the seat going downward. . I then glued the leather back in place especially taking care at the bottom of the seat where it folds under the seat area. It has held and worked fine for 2 years now... I used a dense padding but not as dense as the air gel type as shown. Good luck and enjoy the mods.
 
#87 ·
Thanks for all the info! I forgot about removing the seats... was reading about that earlier in the thread. I've never removed them before, so I need to get the right tools first (found a thread for that already). This is going to be a big learning process for me. :)

I'm curious if the passenger seat is very hard to remove? Seems like the driver's seat is a little easier because you can slide it forward.
 
#88 ·
I took the Drivers side seat out first. The passenger side seat is a little more difficult. You'll need a longer extension in order to reach the two back bolts. And a good flashlight in order to see them well. Watch carefully how the bolts come out and get them back into the mounting holes just like they came out. Not hard . I believe mine had some shims on the bottom of the seat rails that were between the rails and the threaded mounting holes.

The hardest part for me was getting the seat belt straps off and back onto the sides of the seats as they need to be taken off in order to get the seats out onto the ground in order to work on them.

I heated the seat up with a hair dryer so that the contact/rubber cement would seal faster as I pushed the leather down onto the plastic seats. The padding makes a heck of alot of more Butt Comfort than the regular seats.
 
#89 ·
Thanks for all that info, chazzer and loki007! When you guys removed the leather, did your existing foam fall apart or did it hold up? I'm trying to figure out if it would hold up enough to be able to do it without removing the seats...

I also like the idea of gluing the foam to the leather cushion (as loki007 mentioned), then gluing the rest to the chair... seems like a good way to accurately place the foam.
 
#90 ·
The only foam I had was glued onto the seat pan itself, and it tore pretty well when I took it off. I replaced some of the foam with memory foam from an old pillow. The only problem with the double glue is that if something is wrong, it will stay wrong :) Use carpet tape first, drive around some and make sure you like the placement, then glue it in. Make sure you get the leather 'pad' shaped right to the seat before you glue the front flap back down! I did it in two steps: glued the curve and put some weight on it (cinder block or ammo boxes are a great size/weight), then glue the front flap the next morning. I tried it all at once three times before I figured it out ;)

And always glad to help!! I have some lower-back issues and this did help with my comfort, although I do think I will be moving to the Probax seats soon.
 
#91 ·
Good to know. Yeah, I have lower-back issues as well (two slipped discs) so support is pretty important. I currently use a little pillow or my coat as lumbar support (since the seat lumbar support is too high).

Can we get a Probax retrofit, or do we need to buy totally new seats?
 
#92 ·
Was just reading on Kemmler's site that they recommend combining a high density top and a regular density bottom for shoe insoles. I'm curious if anyone has tried this on our seats?

It seems like most people used the HD material on the bottom, and then layered regular density on top. Has anybody tried the opposite?

I'm thinking of trying a regular density seat cushion and lower back support, with a 3/8" HD layer on top of everything.
 
#94 ·
I want to remind this thread that you can flip the lumbar bag and lower the area of support. I did this rebuild on the seats and flipped the pad and I am very happy with the results.
 
#96 ·
Ialso flipped the bladder over and then re-glued it feels much better on the lower back now. I also tried the HD foam and found it to be too hard on my botttom. You can always place some on the seat as is and then drive around first to feel how it might feel with it glued in. Experiment and you'll see what is best for you. I got my padding from a re-uphostery shop, for couches and chairs etc. that actually gave me a large piece that they had laying around. Have fun.
 
#98 ·
Note the instructions on the contact cement :) It needs to go on a 65F or warmer surface. They aren't kidding, I rebuilt my seats and they're flapping in the breeze because the %$#%*( cement didn't bond!! Waiting until it is warmer...

J
 
#99 ·
Foam showed up yesterday! Going to tackle this tomorrow or Sunday. Loki, I'll keep a hair dryer handy. :)

One thing I'm still curious about:

Most people seem to recommend using carpet tape for the foam, and then gluing (or contact cementing) the leather pad of the seat back onto the foam. Isn't this a permanent solution? Why use the carpet tape if you're going to glue the foam to the pad anyway?
 
#100 ·
So I just opened up the package and it looks like my foam is blue. Everybody else's looks either white or tan... invoice says:

SHOCKtec Air2Gel HD Blue Standard 3/8" Thickness
SHOCKtec "Blue" Air2Gel HD **Double Abraded* 1/8" thickness

I ordered from the link on the first page of this thread. Anybody seen this blue foam before?
 
#101 ·
Mine was all blue, I think they just changed the color.

Tape CAN come up much easier, especially in heat as I do not think it is rated very high for heat, so an afternoon in the sun may move it around a bit. And besides, the rest of the car is glued, wouldn't want to seats left out :)
 
#102 ·
Ok, I apologize for sounding like 'that idiot' here but what are my options as far as what to order. I don't know if anyone has actually done it but I know I read on one of the pages before about tripling up on the 1/8 thick foam to get 3/8 thickness. I want it very comfortable, so when people said they would not use the HD, is that only on the top layer or both layers? I'm sorry I'm getting so confused. Maybe its because I should be working.
 
#103 ·
I don't know if anyone has actually done it but I know I read on one of the pages before about tripling up on the 1/8 thick foam to get 3/8 thickness.
That works great. I re-padded an old creeper to sit on while polishing lower parts of cars, changing brakes, cleaning wheels... I used one layer of the HD I had left, and 5 layers of 1/8" glued together, and it's very comfortable.
 
#108 ·
I actually did this mod as well. Feels a lot better.

I topped all of the kemmler foam off with some soft 3/4 foam from micheals and it really made a huge difference, since the kemmler foam isn't particularly plush.

I actually prefer my seats now to the probax exige seats.

Really makes the ride of the car feel better as well.
 
#109 ·
I realize this is a very old thread, but for those of you that had done this mod according to the instructions in post 1, can you explain the dimensions to me?



These don't make any sense. The piece labeled 9x11 is shorter than the piece labeled 8.5x11 next to it?? The gray foam pieces all start at the top edge of the brown foam along one line, so it's not like it's being placed under some other foam.

It looks to be more like 7.5x11 or something like that.

Any thoughts?
 
#111 ·
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