Camber mismatch ? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Camber mismatch ?

Im going to the track .

Front right is -1.7 and front left is -2.1

Should I get the alignment redone Or is this close enough ?
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-27-2016, 11:35 PM
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Probably. Depends.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 02:52 AM
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Since the majority of turns on tracks are right turns in general the left front having more camber will only help you. Though you should have matching camber from left to right I doubt you would be able to tell the difference or will be pushing the car to the point that it would matter. Have a great time at the track!

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 05:12 AM
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Just remove a shim on the right or add one to the left. That should get you closer

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr.C View Post
Just remove a shim on the right or add one to the left. That should get you closer
Of course that will throw out your toe alignment...

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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 05:42 AM
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Of course that will throw out your toe alignment...
No it doesn't, the camber is completely independent of the toe on the s2 elise which I assume he is talking about. The toe affects the steering arm position and the camber affects the hub relative to the steering arm.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 05:51 AM
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No it doesn't, the camber is completely independent of the toe on the s2 elise which I assume he is talking about. The toe affects the steering arm position and the camber affects the hub relative to the steering arm.
It most certainly does. When you remove a shim or add a shim to the top connection point of the hub/upright, you are essentially pivoting the upright against the steering arm that it in between the lower ball joint connection (fixed point) and the upper ball joint (adjustable point).
Example: Removing a shim will set the top of the upright inward towards the center of the car increasing negative camber, at the same time the steering arm that has not been adjusted will make the angle of the upright turn in increasing toe in on that corner of the car.

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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 06:02 AM
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shouldn't be dangerous but it might make for some quirky handling.

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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
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that's a few different opinions but thank you every one.
the track is relatively short at 1.2 miles and goes counterclockwise , 9 turns.
Ive added shaved steering arms, and Penske DA's. I had given the specs to the alignment shop and this is what's on the written report.
I've been on course a couple of times and done a Race Driver's course so Im still relatively new to this.
The car is turbo charged
It will likely be a wet track on Friday when Im on the track.

Im thinking I should get it back to the shop and get the correction done today to get it balanced right even if it means adding back a shim. I was originally aiming for front camber of - 2.2 on both sides, ( and rear -2.7 which is acutally now ( -2.5 and -2.6 ). I think the guy said this was the best he could get ( for some reason )
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mikelr View Post
It most certainly does. When you remove a shim or add a shim to the top connection point of the hub/upright, you are essentially pivoting the upright against the steering arm that it in between the lower ball joint connection (fixed point) and the upper ball joint (adjustable point).
Example: Removing a shim will set the top of the upright inward towards the center of the car increasing negative camber, at the same time the steering arm that has not been adjusted will make the angle of the upright turn in increasing toe in on that corner of the car.
Why would the toe change, you just said it would but that doesn't make it a fact? I am open to being wrong, but it seems to me that you have the upright parallel to the steering arm, and no matter how many shims are or aren't there that angle between the steering arm and upright never changes.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelr View Post
It most certainly does. When you remove a shim or add a shim to the top connection point of the hub/upright, you are essentially pivoting the upright against the steering arm that it in between the lower ball joint connection (fixed point) and the upper ball joint (adjustable point).
Example: Removing a shim will set the top of the upright inward towards the center of the car increasing negative camber, at the same time the steering arm that has not been adjusted will make the angle of the upright turn in increasing toe in on that corner of the car.
Toe is not substantially effected by camber change on the Elise. the upper balljoint and steering arm are always held in a relative position because steering arm also contains the upper balljoint.

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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 07:43 AM
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My bad, I guess I had my wires crossed on suspension design and typical results from camber changes. In my defense I still had not finished my first cup of coffee before posting...
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mikelr View Post
Since the majority of turns on tracks are right turns in general the left front having more camber will only help you. Though you should have matching camber from left to right I doubt you would be able to tell the difference or will be pushing the car to the point that it would matter. Have a great time at the track!
Aren't most tracks are run counterclockwise? Wouldn't that imply more lefts than rights?
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 08:39 AM
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Most road race tracks run clockwise, NASCAR runs counter clockwise. Depending on the design of the track you can have close to an equal number of lefts and rights or mostly rights (i.e. Lime Rock Park).

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mikelr View Post
Most road race tracks run clockwise, NASCAR runs counter clockwise. Depending on the design of the track you can have close to an equal number of lefts and rights or mostly rights (i.e. Lime Rock Park).
Interesting, I wonder if there is a comprehensive list somewhere - it would be cool to look at. As far as the "number" of lefts and rights, I guess what would actually matter is total turning as measured by degrees (and of course type of turn, location of turn, and all the other race craft involved...not trying to be too detailed here)

Last edited by acslater; 04-28-2016 at 09:02 AM.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 09:24 AM
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By definition a CCW track needs 360 degrees more lefts than rights and CW tracks need 360 degrees of right turns over lefts.

So to adding X degrees of right handers to a CCW track would require adding the same degrees of left and the entire track would have X degrees of rights and X+360 degrees of lefts.

/nerd

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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 01:12 PM
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You should get it adjusted eventually but for one event you will be fine.
There is no safety issue there, at worst you will be a little slower. It's possible that you could notice the car handles right turns better than left, but I'm not sure you will even be able to tell.

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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 02:12 PM
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Of course that will throw out your toe alignment...
Don't go into technical advice threads and give half cocked advice that isn't correct. People use the forums to learn, not have you guess at things you clearly don't understand.
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 02:53 PM
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Don't go into technical advice threads and give half cocked advice that isn't correct. People use the forums to learn, not have you guess at things you clearly don't understand.
Hey kfennell, lighten up!

I've got 10 years on this forum and have given tons of solid technical advice that have helps many members over the years (check my posts), I certainly don't need to be scolded by a junior member. Try to work on your manners...
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Last edited by mikelr; 04-28-2016 at 02:58 PM.
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-28-2016, 07:18 PM
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Not going to matter much. You could probably correct or at least get closer to even by removing a camber shim on the side with -1.7. Not hard to do

I don't know how desirable or intentional more camber in the rear than front is.

You could probably take all the shims out everywhere except as needed to keep it even side to side and get close or to where you would ultimately want to be if you are going for maximum racecar.

Depends on a lot of factors. Ymmv

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