Could Save Yr AS$? Moss Emergency Line - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-15-2007, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Could Save Yr AS$? Moss Emergency Line

Having had no luck googling this potentially life-saving maneuver, I am going to try to explain it myself. Iíve done this before, with varying success. And, as youíll see, I am terrible at diagrams on the computer. (Anyone who can find/present a better demo is welcome to.)

As we all know, in many cars and especially those with mid-engines, we donít want to lift or brake in a fast turn.

But, if we go in too fast, we miss the apex, someone blocks us, or some other emergency arises, what can we do?

Well, we can use the (Stirling) MOSS EMERGENCY LINE. SM says to drive straight as far as you can, while braking as heavily as possible. You will lose enough speed to get the car under control before you have to turn (usually at the far side of the road). Remember, cars brake very quickly, more efficiently than they accelerate.

Iíve used this many times on track and street and I can tell you that it works.

Red (if it shows up) is the braking zone.

Many on ET really know how to drive (better than I) and comments & suggestions are welcome.

But, I hope this helps you as much as itís helped me.
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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-15-2007, 12:09 PM
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It certainly looks like it would work. Thanks.
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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-15-2007, 01:43 PM
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ill plug it in the back of my mind thanks

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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-15-2007, 01:51 PM
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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-15-2007, 07:20 PM
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yes...thats a good technique.
i do have some concerns using that line and that braking procedure on a track if someone is behind me.
well, i mean on open track days, not an actual race.
im afraid someone would slam into me...
i dont know.
good post glb!

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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 04:56 PM
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Always brake in a straight line. This is the way I recover from those overcooked corners...too chicken to stay on the gas.
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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 06:54 PM
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I have used that line a few times and it works well. Just hang on as long as you can braking and when you run out of pavement, feed a little gas to get the car neutral and turn. If you still don't feel comfortable, don't turn and just go straight off (been there, done that).

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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 07:32 PM
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the tip above works well if you too early apex it. - done it before!

another sorta related thing -

typically, unless its like a cliff, driving OFF the road is usualy a lot better than spining back onto it, or endo... just drive off, slow it down and drive back on, off road recoveries do not often go very well !

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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 08:07 PM
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That's pretty standard with any car. Better grip on straight brake then turn, but gently without jerking it or may loose it.
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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glb View Post
Having had no luck googling this potentially life-saving maneuver, I am going to try to explain it myself. Iíve done this before, with varying success. And, as youíll see, I am terrible at diagrams on the computer. (Anyone who can find/present a better demo is welcome to.)

As we all know, in many cars and especially those with mid-engines, we donít want to lift or brake in a fast turn.

But, if we go in too fast, we miss the apex, someone blocks us, or some other emergency arises, what can we do?

Well, we can use the (Stirling) MOSS EMERGENCY LINE. SM says to drive straight as far as you can, while braking as heavily as possible. You will lose enough speed to get the car under control before you have to turn (usually at the far side of the road). Remember, cars brake very quickly, more efficiently than they accelerate.

Iíve used this many times on track and street and I can tell you that it works.

Red (if it shows up) is the braking zone.

Many on ET really know how to drive (better than I) and comments & suggestions are welcome.

But, I hope this helps you as much as itís helped me.
Sorry, but I don't get it. If red is the braking zone, why would you want to be braking there? You're already through the turn.

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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 07:24 AM
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That line is also a life saver for bikers. Max brakes vertical, the put the knee into the tank and bank it way over to make the turn now.
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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 08:07 AM
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I've used that technique as well. If you brake in a straight line, you will slow down enough. If you brake while turning, you not only wont slow down as fast, but you'll likely go spinning!

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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 08:45 AM
 
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hes right

that definitely works, i use it on GranTurismo4 all the time. If i'm coming in too fast and/or miss the apex, straight-line braking is more efficient than trail-braking(turning whilst braking).

Good post
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post #14 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 09:38 AM
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good post and good reminder. The natural tendency is to try to trail brake an over-cooked corner. You have to remind yourself to look straight ahead at real-estate you don't normally associate with the corner's exit as you stand on the brakes. Very hard to do.

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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 10:19 AM
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I discovered this on accident when I was 14 and I took my mom's t-bird out and almost wrecked it. (I DID wreck it about 3 months later, but for an entirely different problem)

Check the VIN of the Lotus you're considering buying

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post #16 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 10:25 AM
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I dunno. While straightforward (har-har), you need to remember that SM's advice comes from an era of cars without ABS.

If you have ABS disabled (or non-existent, as in a race car), certainly SM's expertise would apply.

If you have ABS enabled, you can add a bit of trail braking to the mix. But it all comes back to stopping ASAP and limiting upset to the car as much as possible.

Contrary to popular belief, ABS is not an anti-ice braking system. Nor does it allow a car to stop shorter. Pulsing the brakes allows you to STEER while braking, whereas if your brakes were locked-up, this would not be possible.

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post #17 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 10:39 AM
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[QUOTE=JnC;979509]I dunno. While straightforward (har-har), you need to remember that SM's advice comes from an era of cars without ABS.

If you have ABS disabled (or non-existent, as in a race car), certainly SM's expertise would apply.

If you have ABS enabled, you can add a bit of trail braking to the mix. But it all comes back to stopping ASAP and limiting upset to the car as much as possible.

Contrary to popular belief, ABS is not an anti-ice braking system. Nor does it allow a car to stop shorter. Pulsing the brakes allows you to STEER while braking, whereas if your brakes were locked-up, this would not be possible.[/QUOTE

That's a really good point, but I can even lock up ABS-assisted brakes in track applications when I'm in panic mode (when I'm making this face ). Once they're locked up, it's good (but difficult) to remember front tires don't steer if they aren't rolling. Then the Moss line is your only friend...and a neck brace if that doesn't work out.

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post #18 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JnC View Post
I dunno. While straightforward (har-har), you need to remember that SM's advice comes from an era of cars without ABS.

If you have ABS disabled (or non-existent, as in a race car), certainly SM's expertise would apply.

If you have ABS enabled, you can add a bit of trail braking to the mix. But it all comes back to stopping ASAP and limiting upset to the car as much as possible.

Contrary to popular belief, ABS is not an anti-ice braking system. Nor does it allow a car to stop shorter. Pulsing the brakes allows you to STEER while braking, whereas if your brakes were locked-up, this would not be possible.
Yes, but as you say you can't break the laws of physics with ABS... the tires have only so much grip and the sum of braking and cornering forces can't exceed this... in other words, if you're turning, you can't brake at maximum efficiency and if you're braking, you can't corner at maximum g's.

If you're really going too fast for the corner, straight line braking is the first thing to do... possibly followed by trail braking once you've bled off enough speed.

If someone puts in too much steering input while hammering the ABS, it's likely to increase both the stopping distance and the radius of the turn (or even exceed the ABS's ability to prevent a spin).

EDIT: Also, braking reduces kinetic energy, cornering just changes it's direction. If things are going badly, reducing kinetic energy is a good thing.

Last edited by apk919; 04-09-2008 at 10:56 AM.
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post #19 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by apk919 View Post
If someone puts in too much steering input while hammering the ABS, it's likely to increase both the stopping distance and the radius of the turn (or even exceed the ABS's ability to prevent a spin).
The ABS has no direct ability to prevent a spin in the first place.

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post #20 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 11:08 AM
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The ABS has no direct ability to prevent a spin in the first place.
That's certainly true for most types of ABS... I was implying ABS + stability control, which does have some ability to prevent some types of spins.
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