Elise' Handling Characteristics on the Track - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-21-2010, 07:09 PM
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...
In answer to your question above, you absolutely can trail brake an Elise, but it's marginally more difficult to modulate than heavier, higher polar moment cars.
fixed it for you!
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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-22-2010, 06:33 PM
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Geezer ... got it and thanks. Only 1 week before I get to start finding out for myself when I pick up my car.
No problem. If you though the Cayman was precise you're in for a huge treat As long as you don't mind spending some time learning something just a little different you made a great great choice
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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-22-2010, 06:34 PM
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fixed it for you!
Tomato... tomahto... It's all good
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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-22-2010, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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No problem. If you though the Cayman was precise you're in for a huge treat As long as you don't mind spending some time learning something just a little different you made a great great choice
That comment just cooks the anticipation juices even further! Can't wait!
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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-22-2010, 08:50 PM
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bump

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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-30-2018, 01:04 AM
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I am finding this more and more as I push my Elise. I use the Fangio shuffle on the steering wheel to enter into moderate to low speed, high acceleration turns. Once I have locked in the wheel position for the radius of the curve, its then an exercise of lightly feathering the throttle through aceeleration and feeling the response of the car. You can tell when her tail begins to let go and you realize you just accelerate no further. Quite an amazing sensation when you get it right and she literally pops out of the exit of the turn; like someone just boosted you out.
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The Elise responds best to smooth input from the driver. Sudden inputs will upset the car and slow you down (or throw you off the track). As BRTHTAKR says lifting off the throttle delicately will allow you to control the rear - which is basically saying you can steer on the throttle with practice
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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-30-2018, 09:55 AM
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I am finding this more and more as I push my Elise. I use the Fangio shuffle on the steering wheel to enter into moderate to low speed, high acceleration turns. Once I have locked in the wheel position for the radius of the curve, its then an exercise of lightly feathering the throttle through aceeleration and feeling the response of the car. You can tell when her tail begins to let go and you realize you just accelerate no further. Quite an amazing sensation when you get it right and she literally pops out of the exit of the turn; like someone just boosted you out.

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IMO this is one of the biggest mistakes new drivers make. There is no "locking the wheel into the radius of the turn" on 95% of turns. You want to be turning in until you get on gas and then you start opening the wheel, rarely is the wheel ever in the same place for more then an instant right before the apex.

With someone just starting to get fast I explain like this:
If 10 iis the most you were turning the wheel for a 90 degree turn before and 1 is straight, your steering position from entry to exit should be something like.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, 11, APEX, 8, 4, 3, 2, 1

Exceptions would be say T16-18 at cota but even the entry and exit of that corner have a ton of steering variation.
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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-30-2018, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by kfennell View Post
IMO this is one of the biggest mistakes new drivers make. There is no "locking the wheel into the radius of the turn" on 95% of turns. You want to be turning in until you get on gas and then you start opening the wheel, rarely is the wheel ever in the same place for more then an instant right before the apex.

With someone just starting to get fast I explain like this:
If 10 iis the most you were turning the wheel for a 90 degree turn before and 1 is straight, your steering position from entry to exit should be something like.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 11, 11, APEX, 8, 4, 3, 2, 1

Exceptions would be say T16-18 at cota but even the entry and exit of that corner have a ton of steering variation.
Kevin,

Very well said! It is very hard to teach a driver that they have to "Open the wheel" when exiting a corner. They will complain that they cannot put the throttle down because the car is loose on exit. If they would straighten the wheel out, they will be able to use more throttle more quickly.

Later,
Eldon
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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 08:37 AM
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Kevin,

Very well said! It is very hard to teach a driver that they have to "Open the wheel" when exiting a corner. They will complain that they cannot put the throttle down because the car is loose on exit. If they would straighten the wheel out, they will be able to use more throttle more quickly.

Later,
Eldon
Eldon is so sagacious.

It is interesting that often a driver's sense that their car has understeer or oversteer (sometimes both) and they will blame their car's setup. When it may be that their understeer or oversteer is, in fact, driver induced.

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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 09:47 AM
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Thanks all. Though 'practicing' on our counntry roads the steering techniques, it won't be until November that I can put into practice. First track day at Taupo on the international course at Bruce McLaren motorsport park. There are 3 pretty tight turns around the course and I can't see getting through them with the cross over method.

https://www.brucemclarenmotorsportpark.com/tracks/

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post #31 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 10:18 AM
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Thanks all. Though 'practicing' on our counntry roads the steering techniques, it won't be until November that I can put into practice. First track day at Taupo on the international course at Bruce McLaren motorsport park. There are 3 pretty tight turns around the course and I can't see getting through them with the cross over method.

https://www.brucemclarenmotorsportpark.com/tracks/

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Are you serious? You posted authoritative sounding nonsense about hand position AND YOU'VE NEVER EVEN BEEN ON THE TRACK???
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post #32 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 11:15 AM
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Are you serious? You posted authoritative sounding nonsense about hand position AND YOU'VE NEVER EVEN BEEN ON THE TRACK???
I think you can now understand the comment about locking in the steering angle.

Though this topic did get me to go back to your recent videos to watch your steering inputs to see how long you do not hold steering angle. I didn't find any recent videos with your steering wheel visible though.
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post #33 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 11:40 AM
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The Porsche is a much heavier car so it responds more slowly to pretty much any inputs compared to the Lotus. It does feel more stable as a result, but with a bit of practice the Lotus feels much more alive than the Porsche. The Lotus can respond as quickly as you can think, but you do have to think quickly. I've been driving an Elise since '05 and have found nothing street legal that can match the car for letting you know what is happening between your seat, hands, feet, and the track. Lifting in a turn can cause the rear to come around, but steady throttle and easing of the steering wheel makes recovery pretty easy. Does take a bit of practice, but that's part of the fun.

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post #34 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 12:50 PM
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I think you can now understand the comment about locking in the steering angle.

Though this topic did get me to go back to your recent videos to watch your steering inputs to see how long you do not hold steering angle. I didn't find any recent videos with your steering wheel visible though.
Here is the only one I have, I am just learning this track in this video. I need to get a proper AIM smartycam, someone want to donate - Also its not a good example becuase there ARE a number of steady state corners here where you are using the throttle.



Edit after watching this carefully for the first time - I am turning in too early a lot it looks like.

2007 Exige S with almost every track mod...

Last edited by kfennell; 10-01-2018 at 01:11 PM.
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post #35 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Eldon is so sagacious.

It is interesting that often a driver's sense that their car has understeer or oversteer (sometimes both) and they will blame their car's setup. When it may be that their understeer or oversteer is, in fact, driver induced.
Not to mention that what a person "feels" and what the car is actually doing aren't necessarily equal... people tend to think they're at peak grip when they're really not, especially with tires that have a higher slip angle at peak grip
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