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post #81 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-01-2014, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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A few of Greg's AWESOME V6 Exige. He's in the next class behind me (driven by power to weight). Greg and I have been beating up on the germans and american muscle big time!!!
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Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #82 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-01-2014, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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final few...
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Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #83 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-01-2014, 10:05 PM
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Great job Phil. Good to see Lotus representing so well at these races. And.....setting track records. Good stuff. 👍🇬🇧


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post #84 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-01-2014, 10:26 PM
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Might be just the angle .. But are you allowed the wing higher than the roof of the car ?
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post #85 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-01-2014, 10:34 PM
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In post 80 , picture 1 .. Is the camera deceiving again or is that a whole lot of camber you are running on the rear ?

Same post , last pic , I see you have the Geartronics gear knob load cell .. Flat shift working ?
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post #86 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-02-2014, 06:59 AM Thread Starter
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cph- We're actually allowed a wing 8 inches above the roof line!

I have progressively raised the height of mine and it's about 4" above the roof line now. That's probably going to be it for me. Running relatively low angles of attack, the car has quite a good big of DF now. How much exactly, I can't say. It's an engineered foil, so it can be approximately calculated in clean air (which it's not in clean air). I've had to increase spring rates a good bit to minimize the suspension squat at speed and redesign the wing bracketry due to the wing crushing previous designs at 140mph. As it is, the car still has way more in it than I am a driver

Other info....

While development never sleeps, I'm slowing down on changing things at this point. I started tracking this particular driveline back in October. Our class prevents me from pushing the power to the ragged edge with only a 5.5:1 power to weight ratio cap, so the driveline has been spectacularly reliable. THe rules keep the motor development sane I suppose. The car is still quite fast. Probably about 130mph in the quarter mile and that's OK
I've just been working on chassis and aero setup this year, but as mentioned, I'm slowing down on all that and just driving now that the chassis is reasonably well sorted... The "arrive and drive" bit of this season has been nice, especially with my 14 month old and spouse in tote to each race.

Knock on wood of course. Anything can happen on the track

-Phil


Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #87 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-02-2014, 07:23 AM
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First and foremost, CONGRATS on the outstanding driving!

Second of all... CHIVE ON!

Lastly in regards of wing placement, what are your thoughts about moving a foil further off of the rear deck of the car? After looking at some wind tunnel test of other cars with the foil away from the body work, it seems as though the wing aids in evacuation of air from the diffuser.

How far off is that speculation?

'05 CO Elise Mods: Yes
'01 NFR S2000 Mods: No
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post #88 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-02-2014, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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First and foremost, CONGRATS on the outstanding driving!

Second of all... CHIVE ON!

Lastly in regards of wing placement, what are your thoughts about moving a foil further off of the rear deck of the car? After looking at some wind tunnel test of other cars with the foil away from the body work, it seems as though the wing aids in evacuation of air from the diffuser.

How far off is that speculation?
Was wondering who might catch the Chive or the BFM!

As far as a rear most mounted wing goes, those I've seen are mainly on front engine pro-level race cars that have wind tunnel resources. I'm not sure they are the right fit for our cars for a few reasons.

1) We're already at a 60/40 weight distribution. My personal opinion is that I don't want the XXXlbs of DF applied anymore rear of the axle than required. The further reward you move that DF, the more rear weight bias you're going to have which could make an already pushy car more pushy. I don't mean to imply the car will wheelie down the straight, but it's a lot harder to generate big front DF than it is rear. I think you want that rear DF on the rear axle or as close to it as possible on our cars in particular...

2) I can see that there may be an argment to make about activating the diffuser, but our diffusers work pretty well for what they are when designed right (correct shrouding and angle of attack). You can verify this to a reasonable extent with yarn and thin oil. Most of the books on race car aero talk about 11 degree diffuser angles being a magical number. We did some redneck testing of this many years ago and found that 11 degrees does seem to be a good number for air attachment. That's where my diffuser is set and has been for years... Additionally, the further vertical distance the wing is from the diffuser, the less chance you'll have of that activation theory working. For our wing to clear the roof line (or come close to it), it's getting a long ways from the diffuser. I want the wing to be as high as practically possible so I can run less angle of attack. Keeping the wing flat enough where air stays attached to the majority of the foil keep the drag low. The dirtier the air is, the more angle you need to run to get the DF required, which also means more drag... I've also grown skeptical of just how much DF the under side of our cars generate, so I'm not sure that I want to make big compromises to promote it. I know the undercar aero is something, as it absolutely can be felt on the track if you pull the undertrays--- BUT, our cars ride high and that something is certainly less than the wing. My platform is at approx 95mm from the ground and it you can't really go much lower without botching up the suspension geometry-- and that's with my drop 40mm uprights... Racecar Engineering published a nice study of platform height and how it impacted DF some years back. 100mm was not ideal by a long shot (too high)... most Lotus cars are 120+... so.....

My guess is that most amateur SCCA and NASA racers (mere mortals like the rest of us) that have a wing hanging off the back are simply copying the look of a multi million dollar pro car or are doing it for ease of installation. Obviously the pro cars have virtually nothing in common with their -production car converted to racecar- cousins...

Just my 2 cents on it...

-Phil


Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #89 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-02-2014, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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In post 80 , picture 1 .. Is the camera deceiving again or is that a whole lot of camber you are running on the rear ?

Same post , last pic , I see you have the Geartronics gear knob load cell .. Flat shift working ?
I guess the camera... Not a ton of camber... 3.3 or so in the rear. That's no shims... 4 degrees in the front.

Yes, that the geartronics knob. The GCU is behind the seat... none of it is hooked up.lol

...started the flat shift programming and strategy with the stock ECU, and then got busy driving... These sequential boxes work so well with out it, that I just can't get motivated enough to work on it... especially with black dash and evora still needing to get done... Perhaps later this season or over the winter.

-Phil


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2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #90 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-02-2014, 01:53 PM
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Phil, congrats on the car and your track records.

You've spent a lot of time improving your aero, but I see in your pictures that you are not using any side skirts. I am curious if you have not seen a benefit from them, or if you simply haven't had time to fully vet them.

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post #91 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-02-2014, 02:39 PM
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Phil, congrats on the car and your track records.

You've spent a lot of time improving your aero, but I see in your pictures that you are not using any side skirts. I am curious if you have not seen a benefit from them, or if you simply haven't had time to fully vet them.
I have no hard evidence to prove what I'm about to say...

Side sills probably don't help much in the aero department taking into consideration the ride height limitations that Phil mentioned above.

With that said, I have the IMRP sills on my car and it makes the car look sexy! Well that and it makes the car a pain to jack up in the front when lowered.

'05 CO Elise Mods: Yes
'01 NFR S2000 Mods: No

Last edited by Almighty; 07-02-2014 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Added info
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post #92 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-02-2014, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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Phil, congrats on the car and your track records.

You've spent a lot of time improving your aero, but I see in your pictures that you are not using any side skirts. I am curious if you have not seen a benefit from them, or if you simply haven't had time to fully vet them.
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I have no hard evidence to prove what I'm about to say...

Side sills probably don't help much in the aero department taking into consideration the ride height limitations that Phil mentioned above.

With that said, I have the IMRP sills on my car and it makes the car look sexy! Well that and it makes the car a pain to jack up in the front when lowered.
It's largely a time thing, but there's a bit more. I know the side sills are still an "at the fringes" improvement and I already have a lot of DF-- more than most for sure. More is always better for low drag DF like that, but to be honest, there's more time left in the loose nut behind the wheel than the what side sills will gain me. I'm a decent pedal, but there are much better in amateur racing... So there's that, but also the serviceability. If I put in air jacks on this wwinter, I'll add the full sills. As it is, I take 8 tires to every race. The car has to be jacked up and sometimes I don't have much time or the surface for working on the car isn't great. Big sills would make tire changes in some of the pits near impossible-- so air jacks would really be needed. THe last thing I need to fight in 100 degree heat and 90% humdity is jacking up the car Remember, my car has a front ride height of 93mm or so...

That said, I templated a partial sill that would start at about the door line and go rearward. Racecar Engineering did a side sill study some time back where they found about 75% or more of the sill effectiveness can be achieved with a 1/3 sill in front of the rear tire on a typical GT car. That would not impede service, save the paint a bit from rocks, and likely aide in DF based on the RCE study... So perhaps I'll get that done in the near term---- back to the time thing...

Not sure that answer your question

Phil


Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #93 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-03-2014, 02:27 PM
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Thanks Phil, that makes sense. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a performance reason to keep them off. Have you considered a two piece side skirt to avoid clearance issues with the jack?

I have a two piece design on my Elise. It uses a flat skirt which matches the under panel height and a 2" piece of 90 degree aluminum as the outside vertical sill. I have them attached by wing nuts for quick removal. Some quarter turn fasteners would be even better. Below is a pic before I painted the vertical sills black.


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post #94 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-05-2014, 08:04 AM
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Ive gone a similar route with mine only more extreme.

There is wind tunnel data from MIRA with an s1 and an s2 running skirts which proves that they help so its something to look at.

I know what you mean about it being a pain in the arse without air jacks, to get a front wheel off I need to currently jack the car from the rear subframe, put wooden blocks under the rear wheel so that it stays high enough to put my jack under the side to lift the front end up.

what ERP says is a good idea if you can make the ali angle quick removable to allow the jack to go underneath.

Its one of the things I need to look at for mine as ill be bolting rubber skirts to my ali to maximise the effect
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post #95 of 188 (permalink) Old 07-07-2014, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys.

Turbo- Thanks. Yes, I'm ware they will help to reduce high pressure air spillover. I'm not opposed to the aero aid by anymeans...

Eric- Good suggestion. I'll get around to the short sills rearward of the door that I mentioned.... As for the quick removable part, I just can't justify further time required for even a quick release part like you're talking about or the testing required to see if it will hold up to the abuse I put a part through now that we're in the middle of the season.

To put my resistance to adding any kind of complexity to tire changes in perspective, here's how it goes in TA. I have a qualifying/staging session at 9AM- Usually on carry over tires. Then two morning sessions, each 20 minutes long all by 11AM. So you come in, derobe from suit, jack car up, check everything over, swap tires over to stickers, check pressures, pull data, refuel, make any last minutes changes (or thought processes), add ice to the cool suit (if it's real hot), get suited back up,and then head back to grid. It's quite stressful when doing all that as a one horse show. We do that twice in a 2 hour period of time. Hope that helps to explain why there's no room for additional service. It's a hectic schedule!

While I do run in the afternoon, it ends up just being practice for the next morning, as times are never as good after lunch with 100F ambient temps...

Part of the challenge is keeping everything simple and reliable in this form of competition--- perhaps fair to say that's the case in most road racing though

-Phil


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2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #96 of 188 (permalink) Old 08-10-2014, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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August Update

Well things are going well.

Just completed another race and this time the venue was MPH in Hasting, NE. Managed a first place finish both days and set an Overall (as well as class obviously) track record with a 1:28.0 lap. Old record was a 1:30.5 or so, which NOT set by me. I believe my previous best here was a 1:34.X...

This is a fantastic track. Despite being flat as a pancake, this among our favorite places to run. The surface is great, the straights are short, the turns challenging, the curbs are like butter, and the facility owner is among the friendliest guys you'll ever meet. If Hastings is on your radar, you'll be doing yourself a favor if you go!

Back to the journal. I've managed to maintain a #1 spot in my class and set a few class and overall records along the way this year.

We now have the Overall NASA Track Records at
  • Heartland Park in both racing configurations
  • MPH Hastings

We have the Class Record at
  • Hallett (I missed the overall record by about 1 tenth of a second)

The car has been uber reliable, although on the the third year of trans and the shifts are starting to get tough. At first glance, the shifter cable lining may just be getting thin. This would not be a surprise. Nevertheless, will need to investigate before the next event.

My experience at this track was a couple years old, so it took some laps to get back in the swing of thing. This track has several tricky 180 degree turns that really challenge the driver skill and has two high speed sweepers that make for quite the gut check. These features make the track a blast. Unfortunately, I grabbed the wrong SD card while packing and was short on storage. Not realizing the issue until back at the shop, all I had was pretty marginal footage of my "not the best" driving. Nevertheless, it's driving, so I'll post it

I should add that our Lotus trio if Greg V, Jim L, and myself swept our classes and set class records in the process. Lotus cars are leaving a lasting impression across NASA Central, Texas, Colorado, and Midwest regions. Woot!

Vid and pics...

Cheers,

Phil

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ixu-LC5HUI
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Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #97 of 188 (permalink) Old 08-11-2014, 04:09 PM
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Very inspiring work guys. It's incredible how fast the TT1 car is going
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post #98 of 188 (permalink) Old 08-11-2014, 05:42 PM
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Are those Enkei rpf1s on the red exige?
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post #99 of 188 (permalink) Old 08-19-2014, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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...The car has been uber reliable, although on the the third year of trans and the shifts are starting to get tough. At first glance, the shifter cable lining may just be getting thin. This would not be a surprise. Nevertheless, will need to investigate before the next event.
Just a small update. Didn't take long to discover that the shift lever return plungers had started to wear a bit and needed lube. Just a prep oversight over the last couple years.lol. Removed, deburred, lubed, and shifting back to normal Will leave the spare box on the shelf for the next race at the Speedway (Roval). Not really looking forward to this next event, as my car is gear limited for a roval. With the tallest tires I can shoehorn in and bouncing of rev limiter, I should be able to manage just over 160mph. We'll see if that's enough...

In other news, the wing is bending the frame. Will need to straighten and fish plate. Another one of those, "not a huge surprise" deals Only so many hours in the day though!


Quote:
Are those Enkei rpf1s on the red exige?
Yessir. PF01 and 949s on my car. RPF1 on his...

-Phil


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2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #100 of 188 (permalink) Old 09-10-2014, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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geometry and tires for a roval

KS Speedway coming up this weekend. It's a roval, so a bit of yawn track.

This is the first time this year that my car is well under the curve. Not being too excited about this race, and feeling lazy, I did not take the time to change the trans gearing. I need a 165mph top speed or so with the uber long straights and banked turns. I went up to a 17" wheel and ~ 26" tall tire from my standard 15" wheel with a 23" tall tire. This should bring my top speed to around 155mph. Most of the cars in my class will go 170+ on this track while I'll be bouncing off the rev limiter with a 1/2 mile of high banked open road to go... The tall tire nackered my rear roll centers, but since it's a roval, it probably won't matter a whole lot.

I spent some time softening the rev limiter in the stock Lotus ECU so hopefully it won't upset the car too bad when it gets there


The good news is that I'll be taking both a set of c71 kooks and the new new A7s. The A7 construction pushes DOT measurements to the absolute max just like BFG did with the R1. So the A7 is a good bit wider tire than the A6 and therefore a good bit wider than the kook as well...

Going to play with DF a lot this weekend since I know I'm gear limited for speed. Will try some combinations of more and less DF since this is such a unique opportunity to just put the foot to the floor for a day at go...

More good news is that high temp is supposed to be about 60F, so power will be at its best.

Couple pics as she gets ready...

-Phil
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Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Motorsports > Track and Technique

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