One more reminder to tighten your suspension bolts - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #41 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-24-2008, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RoadDad View Post
These are the material strength property classes. They are designated by a number. The metric grades are 4.6, 4.8, 5.8, 8.8, 9.8, 10.9 and 12.9. The higher number is essentially a harder bolt. They also take a different maximum torque (which is also based on length of the bolt). They vary in their proof load stress (for carbon steel from 225 to 970 MPa), minimum tensile yield strength (from 240 to 1100 MPa), and minimum tensile ultimate strength (from 400 to 1220 MPa).

You ask, you learn.... you don't, you're dumb.

wow... thanks for the info! so where would one acquire these bolts? would a hardware store carry them? and do they have the strength printed on the bolts so you know what to get?

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post #42 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-25-2008, 04:50 AM
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Metric Bolt Properties, Grades, and Strength

BTW...a good source for all sorts of bolts is McMaster-Carr: McMaster-Carr

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post #43 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-01-2013, 05:06 PM
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Sorry for the zombie thread revival, but I want to check the torque of my bolts. However, I'm wondering how to do so if there are bent tabs in place. Do I unbend the tabs and torque or should I just leave them as is?

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post #44 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by LionZoo View Post
Sorry for the zombie thread revival, but I want to check the torque of my bolts. However, I'm wondering how to do so if there are bent tabs in place. Do I unbend the tabs and torque or should I just leave them as is?
Seriously man, how you gonna get a socket on there without bending the tabs back...

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post #45 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 05:00 AM
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If you torque down a bolt, and it moves at all, does that not compromise the locktite bond?

Last edited by Piasa; 02-02-2013 at 02:44 PM. Reason: typo
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post #46 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 01:45 PM
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Seriously man, how you gonna get a socket on there without bending the tabs back...
It didn't seem possible to me, but I was just wondering if there was a secret method. Maybe with box wrenches or something? A part of me is slightly hesitant to bend the tabs back out, mainly because I'm a weakling...

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post #47 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 03:40 PM
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Is this a problem for all model years? I had no idea this problem existed. Is this r-compound slick and track induced like the toe link failure?

Thanks for the info.

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post #48 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 07:19 PM
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It seems to be one of those problems that affected the earlier built cars. I haven't heard of any recent failures, but the ones that did fail could fail from street driving as well. I was just trying to be safe, but instead might just sharpie mark the bolts and see if they move over time.

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post #49 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-03-2013, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piasa View Post
If you torque down a bolt, and it moves at all, does that not compromise the locktite bond?
Loctite isn't used on that part of the suspension.

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post #50 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-03-2013, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LionZoo View Post
It didn't seem possible to me, but I was just wondering if there was a secret method. Maybe with box wrenches or something? A part of me is slightly hesitant to bend the tabs back out, mainly because I'm a weakling...
I beat them back with a cold chisel, its easier to do than is sounds.

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post #51 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-15-2017, 08:10 PM
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A blast from the past reading some names from previous contributors - several of which I was lucky enough to meet at the track! This debacle just happened to me as well so I thought it worthy to bring this thread back as a good reminder to all. Also to fill in some information that was never posted in the thread.

Good reading:
https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f100...ed-cars-68408/

When both carrier bolts on my passenger rear wheel broke I had just completed driving through a left corner doing 65mph at the track. When they broke it threw me almost 90deg sideways. I was able to correct and/or got very lucky - I stayed on pavement. It was super lucky this did not result in personal injury or more suspension or body damage (only my inner fender well suffered).

I am guessing having some toe-in pushes the tire toward car while moving forward which I think prevented damage to the rear clam. Unfortunately for me... as I tried to get it off the trailer... going backwards pushes the tire away from car so the 1st hassle was extracting the bolts then sourcing new bolts and putting the car back together enough so that I could at least get it off the trailer.

Just a note that I was using V2 shims. I had done the alignments myself before, using loctite. The last alignment however was done by a shop. It appears there was no loctite... because the heads of the bolts fell out I can't tell if they were lose before they sheared. The other corners were not lose. I admit I never really checked torque because I assumed they had loctite.

I don't have the parts yet but this is what I have ordered thus far:
I ordered these bolts to replace my carrier bolts (which where OEM hardened 10.9) A117W7212F:
Zinc-Plated Alloy Steel Socket Head Screw M10 x 1.5 mm Thread, 50 mm Long, grade 12.9, #90128A291 - https://www.mcmaster.com/#90128A291
B111C6012F - 12 Ball Joint (stress holding wheel by itself (the lower ball joint) ripped the boot and I am concerned it is damaged)
A117D6005F - 02 Hub/Bearing Assembly, with wheel speed sensor (ordered in case I can't repair the ABS wires that were ripped from my current one. I don't think the sensor was removable/repairable in the original assembly but I will give it a better look when I remove it)
A116W1170F - 03 Screw, M12 x 40, cap hd., hub assy. to hub carrier (just in case)
E111D0052F - 06 Shim, camber adjustment (because all my shims fell out/lost on the track).

I am hoping I can remove the lower ball joint without removing the control arm... will see. EDIT: Yup it came out pretty easy using a free-rented ball joint remover tool. There were no retaining clips or anything. Pressure is applied to the top of the ball joint to remove it.

Don't let this happen to you! Replace these bolts on a regular basis! Use a thread locker!

I never saw a suggested torque to tighten the 12.9 hardened bolts. I might just tighten them a few ft/lbs more than the 10.9s were.

EDIT: For completeness for the front carrier bolts you will need one M10 x 1.5 mm Thread, 40 mm and one M10 x 1.5 mm Thread, 60 mm bolt for each side. My McMaster examples (12.9 hardness) would be part #s: 91502A227 and 90128A292 respectively.


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Last edited by EricH; 06-21-2017 at 07:06 AM. Reason: Added front bolt info
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post #52 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-16-2017, 05:49 AM
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An M10 x 12.9, lubricated (loctite counts) should be torqued to about 47ft-lbs going by this chart
https://www.fastenal.com/content/fed...0Fasteners.pdf

But as with all torque specs, its just a ball park. The only real way to know if its dead on correct is to measure the stretch.


Single shear bolts must be kept tight. Their fatigue life is significantly effected if they are not pre stressed.

Paint mark all suspension bolts for visual inspection later.

Here is a little blog I wrote on the subject a while back
http://sector111.blogspot.com/2015/0...nd-thread.html
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post #53 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-21-2017, 07:03 AM
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Sigh I remember now what a PITA it was to find the room to remove and install and properly torque these bolts. Any tips from anyone? I just have standard 8mm driver and socket wrench and torque wrench. Perhaps a 90deg power driver tool? Not sure if there would be clearance for that either. I don't think they make shorter handled torque wrenches that go up to 50ft/lbs.


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post #54 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-25-2017, 03:58 PM
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I got it done with standard wrenches and extensions... just had to manipulate the droop of the suspension often, mostly in the rear.

The lower a-arm ball joint pressed out fairly easily. There were no retainer clips. It required a LOT more force to press in the new one.

I was able to fix the ABS sensor by melting down the connector in the hub until wire/posts were exposed, then I soldered my torn wire to them and covered it in silicone.

The front bolts were fine, paint marks not moved. The driver's rear however were stretched so it is good that I replaced them all when I did! I now have 12.9 hardness bolts all the way around.


Click links to see my 2008 Lotus Exige-S 240 , '99 M3, 505rwhp '89 Mustang ( sold) , '05 WRX STI ( sold) homepages or here for my spin compilations (ispunuwin & ispinuwin2!)!

Last edited by EricH; 06-25-2017 at 04:12 PM.
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post #55 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-20-2017, 09:11 AM
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After reading about Grunschev having the control arm plinth to hub carrier bolts break on him, I read this thread as well. I think the service bulletin posted by Jack previously really covers the issue. Making sure that the bolts are loctited is obviously crucial to prevent them from possibly backing out and failing, and swapping them out for 10.9 bolts whenever they're removed sounds like an excellent idea as well. I've added a diagram of the rear suspension to this post; the bolts are number 5 on the diagram.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
SERVICE BULLETIN Date: 24.08.06 2006/21
Model: Elise/Exige/Europa

TITLE: Ball joint plinth security.

REASON: To ensure that ball joint plinths are properly secured after camber adjustment.

ACTION: On both front and rear suspension, if the plinth for the top swivel ball joint (combined with steering arm on front) is released from the hub carrier to facilitate adjustment of the camber shim plate pack (or for any other reason), it is essential that the correct procedure is followed when reassembling.

Refer to Service Notes section CI (front suspension) page 5 & 9, or DH (rear) page 5 & 9.

See also Service Bulletin 2004/08
- If a steering arm or ball joint plinth bolt is disturbed or removed, the locking action of the thread adhesive will be lost. The bolt must then be completely removed and the old adhesive cleaned from the thread using a wire brush, before finally degreasing with acetone. The bolt holes in the ball joint plinth should also be cleaned.
- If necessary, re-assemble dry to check geometry adjustment.
- On final assembly, Permabond A130 thread locking compound (A912E7033V) should be applied to the bolt thread following package instructions, before fitting and torque tightening.
- In March 2004, the 8.8 grade cap head bolts securing the steering arms to the front hub
carriers, and the top ball joint plinths to the rear hub carriers, were commonised with the uprated 10.9 grade versions used on motorsport cars, with a corresponding increase in torque setting from 45 Nm (8.8 grade) to 68 Nm (10.9 grade). Check the marking around the cap head to establish the grade and appropriate torque setting.
- The 10.9 grade bolts may be used as service replacements on any car fitted with forged steel hub carriers. Caphead Bolt, 10.9 grade, steering arm forward fixing, M10x40 A117W7211F 2 off Caphead Bolt, 10.9 grade, steering arm rearward fixing, M10x60 A117W7213F 2 off Caphead Bolt, 10.9 grade, rear ball joint plinth, M10x50 A117W7212F 4 off

If for any reason a bolt is found to have become loose, and the car has been operated for any period in this condition, the bolt should be renewed as a standard precaution and related components carefully inspected for hole ovality or wear.
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post #56 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-20-2017, 12:39 PM
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After reading about Grunschev having the control arm plinth to hub carrier bolts break on him, I read this thread as well. I think the service bulletin posted by Jack previously really covers the issue. Making sure that the bolts are loctited is obviously crucial to prevent them from possibly backing out and failing, and swapping them out for 10.9 bolts whenever they're removed sounds like an excellent idea as well. I've added a diagram of the rear suspension to this post; the bolts are number 5 on the diagram.
My manual says grade 10.9, however the Lotus certified mechanic at Ferrari of Denver says the spec has been upgraded to 12.9. This would be at least the second upgrade to this bolt.
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post #57 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-20-2017, 12:42 PM
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My manual says grade 10.9, however the Lotus certified mechanic at Ferrari of Denver says the spec has been upgraded to 12.9. This would be at least the second upgrade to this bolt.
Might be nice to hear from others on that... AFAIK higher spec bolts have "increased capacity" but also fail more catastrophic (think break not bend)

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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post #58 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-20-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Grunschev View Post
My manual says grade 10.9, however the Lotus certified mechanic at Ferrari of Denver says the spec has been upgraded to 12.9. This would be at least the second upgrade to this bolt.
I wonder if this is because M10 socket cap bolts are not readily available in a 10.9 grade. Checking the usual go to places for bolts, McMaster Carr and Fastenal, they're only showing 8.8 or 12.9 grade bolts available in a 50mm length. Also, the normal torque value for a 12.9 M10 fastener is about 12 Nm higher than for grade 10. Does this mean that we should torque these bolts to 80 Nm when using grade 12.9 bolts?

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post #59 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-09-2017, 10:16 AM
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...
I was able to fix the ABS sensor by melting down the connector in the hub until wire/posts were exposed, then I soldered my torn wire to them and covered it in silicone.
Well, this was a great idea... and worked for weeks on the street buuuuttttt. I finally made it back to the track last weekend. The track heat melted the solder. That makes plenty of sense to me now and seems to be obvious but I just didn't think of that when I was fixing it. The car is basically un-driveable at the track on Hoosiers with ABS failure (bad brake bias).

So, I had to replace the hub (which includes the ABS sensor). Problem solved, lesson learned!


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post #60 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-24-2017, 10:27 AM
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So what's the final verdict? I have a 2006 Exige. I'm going to have these bolts checked out by my shop when I swap coilovers, but is it worth it to just replace with 12.9 bolts while they're in there?
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