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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-31-2015, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
craigyirush
 
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Track day insurance

Doing my first HPDE in the Lotus and was wondering whom to get track day insurance from.

I did a search and most of the LT threads were about whether regular street insurance covers track days.

I know that MotorsportsReg offers track day insurance, but would be interested to get some other suggestions, as well as any advice (has anyone here had the misfortune to make a claim, was the company good to deal with, etc.).

Thanks in advance.

05 Elise, ST, sports, touring, hardtop, DBA 4000 slotted discs, Ferodo DS2500 pads, Sector 111 gpan3, EP Tuning Quickrack, Pro Alloy rad, DS brace, HnT pad, front and rear tow hooks, CG lock, ORE double cup holder (caffeine for track); '86 911 Targa (sold); '68 MGB (being restored)
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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-31-2015, 10:19 AM
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Lockton. They know what we are all doing, easy to work with and yes were great last year when we had a fine off at VIR.

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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-31-2015, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks!

05 Elise, ST, sports, touring, hardtop, DBA 4000 slotted discs, Ferodo DS2500 pads, Sector 111 gpan3, EP Tuning Quickrack, Pro Alloy rad, DS brace, HnT pad, front and rear tow hooks, CG lock, ORE double cup holder (caffeine for track); '86 911 Targa (sold); '68 MGB (being restored)
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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-31-2015, 11:24 AM
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+1 for Lockton. If you plan on doing several others after the bug bites you get the 6pack. Its worth it.

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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-31-2015, 11:45 AM
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Insurance companies are largely starting to exclude track driving, but you may want to check the wording in your current contract. Geico had covered mine since "stunt driving" and "racing" we're the only related exclusions. They define "racing" in the sense of competition (including autox).


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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-31-2015, 11:50 AM
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From my files:

Lockton Motorsports HPDE was recommended.

BMW CCA HPDE Insurance program: HPDE Insurance | Lockton Motorsports
for competition: Lockton Motorsports | Home

Visit club website; things may have changed.


HPDE: www.ontrackinsurance.com (Great American)


Competition, HPDE
WSIB Insurance Agency; WSIB Insurance - Motorsport And Event Insurance - Home

05 elise (BOE Rev300 supercharged, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS. Past '72 Elan Sprint (I restored), Lotus 7 w/X-flow, TT Supra, Bugeye Sprite, BMW 2002 & 2002tii, '65 GTO.

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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-31-2015, 01:45 PM
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If you get a "six pack" of event coverages, be aware that there is a time limit to use them. I got stuck for one last year while my car was being fixed. That is, I'd paid for the expected six events, but had an accident after five. The time limit expired before we could get the repaired car out again, so we forfeited the fee, about $300.

But gee, they did not blink to pay out something like $15,000 for mostly nonmechanical repairs.

Anyone can make something complicated. It takes genius to make it simple. Einstein.
2011 Evora S Racing Heritage Edition (#3 of 4) (Now with alexsharkeyross)
2005 Elise LRG, track prepped ,
1974 Lotus Europa Special 3841R in JPS livery
2007 Toyota Tundra (about 10 cup holders), traded for 2015 Tundra TRD PRO
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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-31-2015, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XHILR8N! View Post
If you get a "six pack" of event coverages, be aware that there is a time limit to use them. I got stuck for one last year while my car was being fixed. That is, I'd paid for the expected six events, but had an accident after five. The time limit expired before we could get the repaired car out again, so we forfeited the fee, about $300.

But gee, they did not blink to pay out something like $15,000 for mostly nonmechanical repairs.
"word"!

2012 Evora 2+0 IPS.
2007 Exige mental track toy.
2005 Elise.
1982 Brunette.

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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-31-2015, 09:12 PM
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I'm going to be the first to say - don't waste your money. Rather than pay for insurance find a respected club (BMW, PCA, etc) that offers a high level of instruction and listen to your instructor. If you do and he's worth a damn (which you'll know in 2 laps) there's virtually no chance you're going to do anything to hurt your car.

And that's from someone who's killed a car on track before as I didn't follow the above, I was driving solo and way to green to do so. After hundreds of days at this point I've seen 2 maybe 3 incidents and they all fall into this category.

Now I'm going to total my car next time I take it out aren't I?? D'oh!

Just my .02 - clearly your call as it's your cash so I wouldn't give you a hard time or anything I just personally think it's not necessary.

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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-11-2015, 08:08 PM
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Ross -- Sh*t happens which is the point of track day insurance. It covers you for getting involved in other peoples' sh*t -- the biggest risk of a track day. And at roughly $325 per event for our cars it is a pretty good deal relative to the price of our bodywork -- even with $5000 deductible. Nevertheless, as you note, it is a personal decision based on ones own assessment of the risk involved.

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post #11 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-11-2015, 08:26 PM
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Actually, it's pretty rare that "**** (randomly) happens". 95%+ of the time it's people putting themselves in stupid situations and then wondering how someone hit them or how they lost control, or my all time favorite, "mechanical failure".

Almost every instance of "**** happening" at a track that I've witnessed was avoidable. I could list many examples, but that would just be too much work. However, there's a simple rule to follow. If you even remotely "think" something looks or feels off, back-off, bring it into the pit lane, let traffic pass or pull yourself off, park it and assess what didn't feel right.
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post #12 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-11-2015, 09:10 PM
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Bob while you're right that random stuff can happen I think F1SML8R is more right in that it's just extremely rare and usually due to stupidity on the part of you, the driver. It's pretty easy to stay away from the nut balls if you go out with the right group. The way I look at it is the way things are going to happen is when you do enough days that the averages go up. When you do that many days (I average 20 a year) that $325/day gets cost prohibitive very quickly.

Again being clear I would never say someone is stupid for getting the insurance - we all have our risk/reward ratios that we're comfortable with. For me I feel that while you're a novice/non-expert level driver so long as you're with a (qualified) instructor there is very very little chance of something happening. I think the risk of something breaking and causing an incident is far greater so that's where my arguement breaks down. Again all about your personal risk level.

2006 Exige | Full List | BOE Rev400 (357whp) | JC Head | ProAlloy | ForceFed | BOE QS | ITG Airbox | BOE catch cans | gPan2 | Setrab | JUBU | Tillett B5s | Scroth 6pt | OMP Superquadro | interior/HVAC delete | Traqmate | Chasecam | Lift Point Kit | Ultradiscs | RBF 600 | RS14 | Vented Pistons | Penske DA 600/800lbs | V2 arms | BOELinks | ShiftEnforcer | Manly mounts | Braille | Yoko S01s | R888s | GTC-200 & Canards | RACEsills | BOE UnderAero | F1 Livery

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post #13 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-11-2015, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rosscarlson View Post
Bob while you're right that random stuff can happen I think F1SML8R is more right in that it's just extremely rare and usually due to stupidity on the part of you, the driver. It's pretty easy to stay away from the nut balls if you go out with the right group. The way I look at it is the way things are going to happen is when you do enough days that the averages go up. When you do that many days (I average 20 a year) that $325/day gets cost prohibitive very quickly.

Again being clear I would never say someone is stupid for getting the insurance - we all have our risk/reward ratios that we're comfortable with. For me I feel that while you're a novice/non-expert level driver so long as you're with a (qualified) instructor there is very very little chance of something happening. I think the risk of something breaking and causing an incident is far greater so that's where my arguement breaks down. Again all about your personal risk level.
Definitely agree with all you said, but the part (F1SML8R) about the sh*t being you the driver. Semantics, perhaps, but to me sh*t happening is something you as a driver could not affect. Usually, that would be another driver's mechanical issue. As to probabilities, IDK. I handle questionable driving skills by running with PCA and CHIN or truly private track rentals where I know all participants and pulling into the pits or dropping away when I don't like what is occurring in front of me. I also have a discussion with the event operator/chief instructor regarding any incidents waiting to happen that I observe.

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post #14 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 01:22 PM
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I've been driving and coaching HPDE track days for years, and over these years, I've seen quite a number of crashes. Not a single one of these crashes involved one car hitting another on the track. What usually happens is that someone overdrives their car for the given track conditions, goes off, or hits a wall. The only car on car action I've seen has happened in the paddock when people weren't observant when backing out of their spot. Granted, the groups I go with are very safe and there are strict rules about passing. Your selection of track group is much more important than whether to buy insurance. PCA, BMW, Hooked on Driving and other such high end groups will really pay attention to safety.

I'd personally skip the track insurance, and only consider it if the forecast calls for inclement weather, since many people seem to avoid wet conditions and don't know how to drive on a wet track, so there will be lots of offs.

If you drive within your own limits and within your car's limits, you'll be fine. If you have the kind of personality who will exhibit the red rage once you get on track, then by all means, buy insurance.
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post #15 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 03:27 PM
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I think insurance is good for a lot of people.

Stuff happens, no matter who's at fault, what failed, etc.

Long ago, Fishguy posted what I think is an important thread.

(He also switched to a formula car; much cheaper to fix than a Lotus. If I had to tow something to the track, it wouldn't be a shockingly-expensive-to-fix Lotus.

Here:
https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f163/oil-50679/


Certified Lotus totaled his Exige at the track, btw.

05 elise (BOE Rev300 supercharged, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS. Past '72 Elan Sprint (I restored), Lotus 7 w/X-flow, TT Supra, Bugeye Sprite, BMW 2002 & 2002tii, '65 GTO.

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Last edited by glb; 02-12-2015 at 03:36 PM.
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post #16 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 04:27 PM
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And thats why if I go, I buy the insurance. Never seen two cars collide either, but have seen oil, coolant, brake fluid and believe those are the things that are going to get you into trouble.

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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post #17 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 04:38 PM
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I think track matters a lot too. Most of the Midwest / Rocky Mountain tracks are pretty darn wide open with huge runoff and few walls. Most coastal tracks in more built-up areas are way scarier in terms of car loss potential. For example the chances of losing a car at HPR are fairly slim, while Infineon/Sonoma/Sears Point is a lot scarier.
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post #18 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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How would you guys rate Speed Ventures for safety?

My biggest safety concern with some organizations that do track days is that they allow people to self tech their cars. Not sure if you can trace that to accidents, though.

I also agree that anything can happen. On my second track day I was running with the PCA at Streets. My mechanic/instructor was showing me the lines in his 964 RS America when someone in a 944 went off the track ahead of us and managed to come skidding backwards into our path. My mechanic is a very good driver and was able to get out of the way. Very close call!

05 Elise, ST, sports, touring, hardtop, DBA 4000 slotted discs, Ferodo DS2500 pads, Sector 111 gpan3, EP Tuning Quickrack, Pro Alloy rad, DS brace, HnT pad, front and rear tow hooks, CG lock, ORE double cup holder (caffeine for track); '86 911 Targa (sold); '68 MGB (being restored)
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post #19 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 05:51 PM
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Yup, again things can happen and while that is the reason we all have insurance on our street cars I suppose I just do too many days for it to be cost effective. I'm actually taking my Jag out this weekend for some open lapping which is probably the least-safe event you can run but honestly I'm not worried about it. The odds on contact with another car are almost non-existant and I know I won't push hard enough to risk hitting anything.

Again I would never call someone stupid for getting insurance but in general I advise against it. If you're going to do this often you should have a car that you're willing to walk away from but I suppose if you're a twice-a-yearer that it can make sense. I also thought that you could only get it for certain club type events and most of those events are the safest around. Anyway definitely a decision each of us have to make.

-Ross

2006 Exige | Full List | BOE Rev400 (357whp) | JC Head | ProAlloy | ForceFed | BOE QS | ITG Airbox | BOE catch cans | gPan2 | Setrab | JUBU | Tillett B5s | Scroth 6pt | OMP Superquadro | interior/HVAC delete | Traqmate | Chasecam | Lift Point Kit | Ultradiscs | RBF 600 | RS14 | Vented Pistons | Penske DA 600/800lbs | V2 arms | BOELinks | ShiftEnforcer | Manly mounts | Braille | Yoko S01s | R888s | GTC-200 & Canards | RACEsills | BOE UnderAero | F1 Livery

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post #20 of 55 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 06:16 PM
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Just for contrast, I nearly packed into a Ferrari at around 2:30. Just because you're minding your own business, doesn't mean some yayhoo like me won't come along and take you out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMRdaJy1Ldk#t=106
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