Track Day insurance - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 05:49 AM Thread Starter
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Track Day insurance

Looking at purchasing HPDE insurance and took a look at Lockton and Haggerty. I was a bit shocked to see a price of over $550 for a 2 day HPDE from Lockton. Haggerty was a bit less. I was thinking it would be around $250-$300 for a 2 day event and less for a 1 day.

Any recommendations/discounts/etc from anyone?

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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 07:31 AM
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I've never used these folks... But, they do offer what seems to be competitive pricing.

https://ontrackinsurance.com/

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 07:43 AM
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Step #1: check your current policy and you might be pleasantly surprised. DO NOT tell them what you are intending to do, but just ask for a full copy of your policy. Once you get it, look for "exclusions". I was covered on track because my policy excluded "stunt driving and racing". Since a track day is not competitive, they interviewed everyone and agreed to pay. This varies by state, even within the same company, so just check for yourself.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 08:38 AM
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The days of finding road insurance loopholes for DE events are ending. I have zero coverage the instant my wheels hit a track - even if an instructor is in the car and the event is not timed. Other forums confirm this is the new norm with many big name providers.

Consider one of our members in 2015 who crashed and totaled his Elise on the track without track insurance. He was SOL with his road insurance and had to sell his salvageable parts. Suddenly, $250/event is nothing compared to losing $34,000 in a few seconds!

I used Lockton when I did HPDE years ago. They even had small discounts for select club events they recognized.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyow5 View Post
Step #1: check your current policy and you might be pleasantly surprised. DO NOT tell them what you are intending to do, but just ask for a full copy of your policy. Once you get it, look for "exclusions". I was covered on track because my policy excluded "stunt driving and racing". Since a track day is not competitive, they interviewed everyone and agreed to pay. This varies by state, even within the same company, so just check for yourself.
When I had Liberty Mutual, I called and had them verbally OK my track days, they are considered instructional (not racing) as long as the event wasn't timed. They then pointed me to the verbiage in my policy.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 09:15 AM
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Here is what a current Liberty mutual policy says under exclusions, I can barely understand what they are trying to get at. If looks like it wont cover my car if I am at a track facility for the purpose off racing or practicing to race?

12. Loss to "your covered auto" or any
"non-owned auto", located inside a
facility designed for racing, for the
purpose of:
a. Competing in; or
b. Practicing or preparing for;
any prearranged or organized racing or
speed contest.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 09:19 AM
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Unless things have changed, Lockton/Ontrack sell coverage by event not by day, thus a one day event is priced the same as a 2 day event. Anyway Lockton and Ontrack are the two that I know, that price seems high to me but if you are insuring $75k or more I'd say that it is in line with expectations.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by +TSRAGR View Post
The days of finding road insurance loopholes for DE events are ending. I have zero coverage the instant my wheels hit a track - even if an instructor is in the car and the event is not timed.
The more common policy language today is (to paraphrase) - You are NOT covered if on a surface that is used for any type of racing (on a track).
Exclusions - Property damage arising out of the participation in any prearranged, organized, or spontaneous
a) racing contest
b) speed contest; or
c) use of an auto at a track or course designed or used for racing or high performance driving, or in practice or preparation for any contest or use of this type


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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 09:28 AM
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I use Lockton and they charge by the event not the day just as stated by jds62f above. The charge is well worth it especially if you use your car on the road as well. You can also play with the deductible level to manage the fee.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kfennell View Post
Here is what a current Liberty mutual policy says under exclusions, I can barely understand what they are trying to get at. If looks like it wont cover my car if I am at a track facility for the purpose off racing or practicing to race?

12. Loss to "your covered auto" or any
"non-owned auto", located inside a
facility designed for racing, for the
purpose of:
a. Competing in; or
b. Practicing or preparing for;
any prearranged or organized racing or
speed contest.
This is the same as the wording on my current policy. I no longer have the policy that I used for a track day claim because I was sloppy with my word choice on the phone...

My understanding from this is they could refuse coverage for a track day ONLY if there is proof you will be competing in the future with the same car. For example, if they find that you are registered for an autox the next weekend, then they could argue you wrecked while preparing for it. With that being said, I know of one guy whose policy said the same and he was covered for an accident during an autox which is pretty concretely excluded. If you are not registered for any speed contests with the same car, then they cannot argue that you are preparing for a speed contest.

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 10:04 AM
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I have only used track day insurance (Lockton) because I was going to a new track and the forecast was for rain. Sure enough, I kissed the tire wall. The damage was too little to meet the deductible (15%), so I don't have any experience filing a claim. Track insurance is expensive, but if it gives you some peace of mind, then you will enjoy the track more. I will say that I was a little tentative on my next track day without insurance.

I get emails from Hagerty for track day insurance, but they would not give me a quote for street insurance on my Elise.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 12:39 PM
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Related to track day insurance, none of these companies cover liability... right? All of my previous track experience was accrued at a track that wasn't highly organized. However, there were never more than 5-10 cars on track at a time, so the risk of car-to-car collisions was low.

For general discussion, let's pose two situations:

1. Driver A causes an accident that damages driver B's vehicle. What is the typical result in this situation? I imagine it's largely up to driver A & B to sort things out... best case is driver A covers repairs, worst case is legal suit between the two drivers.

2. Driver C an off-track excursion that results in damage to the track facility. Is the driver C liable to pay for facility repairs?

Is the event organizer ever liable for repair expenses caused by their participants?

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 12:51 PM
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In case #1 I've never heard of a legal suit. Because of varying rules/organizations/etc, without a "race steward" its often pretty gray identifying who is at fault, so the determination of fault is your first problem. So insurance covers damage to your car and does not account for how that damage was accrued, who was at fault, etc. Even if both drivers had insurance, and it was agreed driver A was at fault, Driver A would have to agree to pay out of pocket to cover driver B's expenses... I've not heard of this happening, because you're on a race track after all.

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdawson View Post
Related to track day insurance, none of these companies cover liability... right? All of my previous track experience was accrued at a track that wasn't highly organized. However, there were never more than 5-10 cars on track at a time, so the risk of car-to-car collisions was low.

For general discussion, let's pose two situations:

1. Driver A causes an accident that damages driver B's vehicle. What is the typical result in this situation? I imagine it's largely up to driver A & B to sort things out... best case is driver A covers repairs, worst case is legal suit between the two drivers.

2. Driver C an off-track excursion that results in damage to the track facility. Is the driver C liable to pay for facility repairs?

Is the event organizer ever liable for repair expenses caused by their participants?
Every HPDE that I have been to states that the driver is responsible for any and all damages to the facility. I have also seen a driver given a bill for track cleanup from dumping oil since he drove all the way back to the pits.

Later,
Eldon
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jds62f View Post
In case #1 I've never heard of a legal suit. Because of varying rules/organizations/etc, without a "race steward" its often pretty gray identifying who is at fault, so the determination of fault is your first problem. So insurance covers damage to your car and does not account for how that damage was accrued, who was at fault, etc. Even if both drivers had insurance, and it was agreed driver A was at fault, Driver A would have to agree to pay out of pocket to cover driver B's expenses... I've not heard of this happening, because you're on a race track after all.
Makes sense. I would expect that to be the outcome most of the time. My "law suit" remark was just meant to identify one of the worst possible outcomes from a personal property damage perspective.

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Every HPDE that I have been to states that the driver is responsible for any and all damages to the facility. I have also seen a driver given a bill for track cleanup from dumping oil since he drove all the way back to the pits.
Good to know and interesting - I've never seen a driver charged for track repairs or downtime. My question came up after reading about Nurburgring lapping rentals and insurance.

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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 04:03 PM
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Every HPDE that I have been to states that the driver is responsible for any and all damages to the facility. I have also seen a driver given a bill for track cleanup from dumping oil since he drove all the way back to the pits.

Later,
Eldon
In my instance, the track tried to charge me for damage. I responded that insurance was taking over, but the track failed to provide insurance with receipts. They only said "you owe us $500", and inusrance said "look, we'll pay what it takes, just show receipts". It ended with the track just dropping it completely. I found that interesting.

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