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Check your toe link!

110K views 180 replies 82 participants last post by  shinoo 
#1 ·
Please be sure to check yours. Had a track day on Thursday, today I changed oil and checked the links. Both were lose. Be sure to check or they could ruin your day.

-Rob
 
#28 ·
Jbone said:
Umm, by checking if they're loose during an oil change; are you just testing it with your fingers, or are you cracking on it with your torque wrench? :eek:
if you can produce 45 lb ft of torque with your fingers, then you are poised to dominate the professional thumb-wrestling circuit. :D
 
#29 ·
Jbone said:
Umm, by checking if they're loose during an oil change; are you just testing it with your fingers, or are you cracking on it with your torque wrench? :eek:
Use a GOOD calibrated torque wrench.

FWIW: My car has always had these bolts tight. I've checked every oil change and they've never been loose. Next time I'll retorque them to 60 NM though...
 
#32 ·
ducatiexigeowner said:
Sec111 has locking washers for the toe links.....
does the same trick as a locking tab, if not better,simple mod.....
a took a load of these courtesy of shinoo and neil along to the stargazing
meet......if your close to CA shay2 may have a few left over...
Hey thanks for leaving those Nordlocks on our windshields in the morning !

Anyone know if the toe link nut is accessible without removing the wheels? I bought some Rhino Ramps for oil changes and was thinking about rolling the car up and installing the lock washers.
 
#34 ·
MattG said:
Are you Nord-Lock people using the same torque, or increasing it as recommended? What about lubricating the threads?

JMY, no need to remove the wheels, just the undertray.
I have Nord-Lock, check every 5K (roughly every 3 months) and used the old 37 value:wallbang: ...until next week when it's time for the another service. At least the last two or three times they were tight and needed no adjustment.

Oh, no lube on these threads.
 
#35 ·
MattG said:
Image from the factory manual, marked up by former ET user Stan:
Thank you and Tim.
 
#36 ·
RegGuy said:
Is this considered a "standard" maintenance check when the oil is changed or is it more frequently needed?
Do it every oil change, you are right there anyway, and if you track the car, do it before , and after each day of the event. at least thats what i did with mine. they would be slightly loose after a day at the track. its easy to do them, dont be lazy on this. I felt it was a big design flaw with the car as delivered from the factory.
Just my .02
 
#37 ·
Just my usual reminder...

If you the toe-link is loose, you install the nord-locks, or you just loosen the bolt to check it and re-torque it, make sure the car is sitting on it's wheels/tires (not with the car on jack-stands and the wheel drooping/hanging down).

The toe-link bolt is also the lower A-arm bushing bolt. All suspension bushings must be tightened with the car at ride height (sitting on the wheels), otherwise you will pre-load the suspension bushing and likely cause it to prematurely fail (and the pre-loading can mess up the suspension a bit).

If the bolts are already tight, and you are just checking the torque (and it's still tight) it isn't a problem.

Always tighten suspension bushing bolts with the weight on the tires.
 
#39 ·
uclacyc said:
Are you guys getting all of the diagrams from the manuals downloaded from Lotus USA ($25 daily pass)?
Yep. The color was added after the fact.

Everyone that has an Elise or Exige should get the manual.

Also download the Parts List from the Club111.net web site.

The Owner's Manual is also available on line.
 
#40 ·
TimMullen said:
Always tighten suspension bushing bolts with the weight on the tires.
While I don't dispute that logic, I do wonder...how does one check the torque of the inner a-arm bolts without removing the wheel? Or should we just use a jack to raise the hub / compress the spring in this case to close to ride height?
 
#43 ·
When I put the car on ramps to change the oil, I check the toe link. I also hand check it everytime I change wheels. Yes, I know that's not tight enough but it will be obvious if it's loose and then I can address it. Also, every time it goes on the rack I get under there and check it. What the heck.
 
#44 · (Edited)
MattG said:
While I don't dispute that logic, I do wonder...how does one check the torque of the inner a-arm bolts without removing the wheel? Or should we just use a jack to raise the hub / compress the spring in this case to close to ride height?
You have figured out the Catch-22...

You can use a jack to raise the hub/compress the spring - many people do that. Or, an simpler way is to lower the car/wheels onto RhinoRamps so the weight is on the wheels. The slide under the car and use the torque wrench.

This is one reason that when I get a garage lift, I'm getting a four post drive on lift. Now I just need a bigger/taller garage so I can fit one...

You can always check the torque on the bolts with the car in the air - if they are tight, you won't be changing the position of the bushings. But if they are loose, then you need to put the car to ride height prior to tightening.

A little background about suspension bushings.

The suspension does not actually rotate about the bolts that hold the A-arm to the chassis. The rotational movement of the A-arm is accomplished by the twisting of rubber in the bushing.

The bushings are made with two sleeves (cylinders) of metal, with rubber bonded (the Black and Gray in the diagram below) between the two. The outer sleeve (Orange) is pressed (it's a very tight fit) into the end of the A-arm (Blue). The "pivot" bolt (Green) (in this case the end of the Toe-Link ball joint) passes through a hole in the chassis (Yellow), through the inner sleeve of the bushing (Red), and through the other side of the chassis bracket (Yellow). When you tighten the bolt (Green), the sides of the chassis (Yellow) clamp down on the inner sleeve (Red). This clamps the inner sleeve of the bushing to the chassis and prevents any rotation of the inner sleeve. Note that the inner sleeve sticks out slightly from the rest of the bushing - this makes sure that the only part of the bushing to contact the chassis is the inner sleeve, preventing metal to metal rubbing of the suspension parts and chassis (only the Red and Yellow come in contact and they are clamped together so they can't move relative to one another).

Since the outer sleeve (Orange) is a press fit into the A-arm (Blue), it is not free to rotate relative to the A-arm. The only movement is the twisting of the rubber (Black and Gray) between the inner and outer sleeves of the bushing.

If you tighten the bushing with the suspension "drooped", things will be clamped in that position. When the car is settled on the suspension, the rubber bushing will be in it's twisted state. This causes a couple of problems. One, the rubber tries to untwist, "lifting" the car - it will try to act as a bit of a spring. Two, and more importantly, the twisted rubber is under strain, and will degrade fairly rapidly (consider a rubber band that has been stretched around something for a few months - it will no longer be flexible and will tend to easily break if you twist it or pull on it). Three, since the rubber bushing is already twisted a considerable amount, it will be strongly resisting being twisted more - this will reduce the ability of the suspension to move upward when you hit bumps, etc. It will act as a strong spring (if you want stiffer springs - add the metal kind, it's more predictable). Four, the car will feel "floaty" as you drive it.

Bottom line is, tighten (clamp) the bushings with the suspension in the ride position to avoid problems. This is also why you shouldn't store a car over the winter months "up on jacks". Leaving the suspension drooped for long periods of time will have the same effects, and cause the bushings to degrade more rapidly.

Oh yea, the reason the rubber in the bushing "Black and Gray" in the diagram is that Lotus has used a bushing that has a plastic ring (Gray) in the middle of the rubber (Black) bushing - this limits the twisting of the rubber, making the bushing "stiffer" without the harshness of using a hard plastic material (such as polyurethane) as is often used to make stiffer bushings.
 

Attachments

#45 ·
Keeper said:
When/where was this number updated to 60Nm? There are still posts that say 50Nm.
The Service Manual indicates the 50 Nm (37 ft-lb), but it was changed by Lotus quite some time ago to the 60 Nm (44 ft-lb). There are a couple of threads where it was discussed, but good luck finding them. The searches that I've tried either find nothing, or find way too many threads to check through. I found it the other day with a magic combination of words to search on, but I can't seem to find it again. I should have saved the link to the previous post... :(
 
#46 ·
#47 ·
Keeper said:
Might as well be straight from Hethel:

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=482858&postcount=40

(The magic combo: Google: site:www.elisetalk.com toe link 60nm)
Thank you. I didn't find that one when I looked - only others that referenced the information (and remembered it in the back of my mind from the time - I have a mind like a steel trap; very rusty).

You are quite correct - information from Don should be considered correct and reliable. :up:

You might want to add that link to the uber post under the toe-link topic...
 
#49 ·
westmc said:
Can somebody please let me know about the track pack? I've tried searching and I've seen this question asked at least 3 other times with no response.
I would expect the torque to be similar (assuming similar pitch on the threads of the bolt compared to the toe-link ball joint stud). The torque is actually a measure of the clamping force of the bolt - the bolt that clamps the chassis to the bushing. I see no reason that that clamping force would be any different depending on what bolt was holding it in place.

Of course, that is just what I would expect, not a known fact... :shrug:
 
#50 ·
TimMullen said:
I would expect the torque to be similar (assuming similar pitch on the threads of the bolt compared to the toe-link ball joint stud). The torque is actually a measure of the clamping force of the bolt - the bolt that clamps the chassis to the bushing. I see no reason that that clamping force would be any different depending on what bolt was holding it in place.

Of course, that is just what I would expect, not a known fact... :shrug:
Do you know if this toe link problem happens with the track pack?
 
#51 ·
I have not HEARD of any track-pack equipped vehicles actually braking the bolt. I do know that even on the track-pack the joints have crappy plastic linings that develop slop. The slop then allows slight toe changes while driving, most especially under hard braking.

I have the track pack, and I've just received my RTD Brace from Sector111. Plan to install it in a couple of weeks.

xtn
 
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