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Check your toe link!

110K views 180 replies 82 participants last post by  shinoo 
#1 ·
Please be sure to check yours. Had a track day on Thursday, today I changed oil and checked the links. Both were lose. Be sure to check or they could ruin your day.

-Rob
 
#85 ·
Checking the inner toe link torque and it was spinning in the rear. Not easily actually the torque wrench did click but, not sure how accurate. Need to remove the wheel to get a wrench on the nut and try again. Should it be able to spin. Never check before as it should have had this done at the first dealer service.
 
#87 ·
^^ no - it was up on the roll on lift, so couldn't take the wheel off, decided rather tha ntaking the diffuser off we will do it when we have the wheel of during brake bleeding , the elise didn't spin in place, so the nuts of the back side are different (obviously) with the lotus brace.
 
#105 ·
tightening the nut end will limit the twist on the bolt (in the bushing).

presumably the bushing may grip the bolt under compressions. but mine seemed pretty "relaxed" when i put on my brace - a reasonably precaution / process though i suppose.
 
#106 ·
Hold the boat... In a situation where bolt torque is critical (like with anything other than body panels.lol), NEVER tighten the bolt head unless you cannot access the nut. In this case, the nut is easy to access and bolt torque is extremely critical. In fact, it's probably not a far stretch to say that every toelink failure out there (short of those in crash) is due to improper (too loose) or at some point grossly over tightening (passed yield) of the plain 'ol ball joint that the factory sends out...

Tim, you get a :thwack: for that one:D

Cheers,

Phil

Edit: APK- you get a thwack too;)
 
#110 ·
Nuts and Bolts

I'm kind of a nut when it comes to bolts (pun;)), so here's the deal...

First, it's FAR, FAR better to over tighten a bolt than it is to under tighten one. FAR.

There are two primary ways to know if you've significantly over tighten a bolt (i.e. reduced the strength of the bolt). There are other ways, but these are good for most practical purposes...
1) The thread spacing expands. This is essentially an indication that a bolt has been torqued to yield. The bolt at this point is functional but should not be reused. How to tell: Upon removing the nut, and you VERY closely inspect the threads of the bolt, if you notice that the spacing of the threads has expanded (any of the threads that were in tension). If you see any irregular thread spacing, you should do the Carrol Smith "float test". Toss the suspect bolt in a near by pond/lake. If it floats, reuse it;)

2) The bolt breaks;). The most stress a bolt will experience is the stress of tightening (short of over loading it and causing a failure). Not only is it in shear stress, but it's twisted as well. This is key because if the bolt survives the tightening process, then you don't have to worry about it breaking soley from being over tightened during use. Again, over tightening is far better than under tightening.

Tightening 101... MOST mechanical tq wrenches are only accurate to about +/-25% of the indicated torque. Given this statistic, you have 3 options, IMO. Annually recalibrate your tq wrench (Send it off), buy a digital tq wrench (expensive, but are typically more accurate and stay more accurate than mechanical), or cross your fingers and slightly over torque every bolt you're supposed to torque to X to X+10% or so (depends on the fastener size and use) to hedge your bet that your tq wrench may be reading much over what is indicated at the "click"... You now know it's better to be too tight than too loose (remember if the bolt doesn't break you're likely OK), so you always hedge up in tq rather than down if you question your equipment...

You should always use a hard washer with a bearing surface under the nut to be torqued at critical joints/unions (like the toe links). I'm not sure how I feel about those locking washer that come with some of the kits... I'd rather use a nyloc nut (yes, those are reusable). Remember is not the nut or the "lock washer" that keeps things tight. It's the bolt stretch...

MOST tq specs are for dry and clean threads unless otherwise specified (like the toe links- dry and clean).

All the above is especially importantly for things like suspension/driveline components.

I'd bet a fair penny that every failed toe link failed due to improper tq. Those that claim they always tq'ed their toe links prior to a track event and still experienced a failure (Which would be few) probably had something wrong with the tightening procedure like a torque wrench that wasn't calibrated, or were using the *old* tq spec opposed to the new one for the links, or perhaps retorqued a toe-link that had been previously been torqued to yield by mistake, or possibly the joint could have been loose at one point in time and damage occurred to the stud at that time. It could be any one or combination of those items...

IMO, I think the after market solutions do more for awareness than anything, which causes people to check them more frequently. That really helps the most (more than that "double shear" thing-uh-muh-jig connecting rod)... IN full disclosure, I do not personally run the stock toe links... but I also don't run the so-called double shear rod that connects the joints either...Not that there's anything particularly wrong with the aftermarket solutions out. They obviously work just fine:up:

Hope that helps,

Phil
 
#113 ·
So this was timely...

I was replacing the toe links with ours on a client's car this evening. Little background. The car has never been tracked. Is an 05 that runs normal street tires (i.e. not R comps).

Car has about 15K miles...

Driver's side toe link MAY have had about 10ft/lbs of torque. Passenger side link was tightened as normal. The subsequent wear pattern on the links was clear as day. Almost looks like they came from different cars... but they didn't:no:

Eventually the link with the circle would have failed even with street use:rolleyes:. It has galling on the stud that is measurable with a caliper and detectable with a finger nail... On the other hand, the properly torqued one showed no signs of wear as you can see.

Moral of the story is nothing new, but more of the same.... check your toe link torque very FREQUENTLY even if you don't track your car:up:...

Enjoy,

Phil
 

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#115 ·
After break in??? There's not a break in process for the part, FWIW... I doubt checking the link was part of normal maintenance if that's what you're asking. The stock setup comes loose due to a lack of torque to begin with. Lotus increased the torque spec for the bolt for a reason- to increase the stretch in the bolt making it not only harder to become loose but a stronger union in general... Folks should make sure that they're checking that torque value on a regular basis.

FWIW- I ran my stock toe links for 2 years on the track with r-comp tires, supercharger, downforce, the whole 9 yards, etc... I checked them religiously and torqued them to dry 45ft/lbs (a bit over torqued from Lotus's spec as I recall). When I removed them to replace with a much more robust setup, there were zero signs of galling and no indication that the part was bound to fail (note mine are not the ones pictured)... I'm not recommending that folks do that. Stick with Lotus's specs or replace them if you're worried about it...

Happy driving,

Phil
 
#116 ·
Yes, after the break in period there's a mandatory check of the part where it must be torqued to spec. It is part of routine maintenance and IIRC the only time it's required to check it. Although you should check it frequently, the real question is has it ever come loose after proper maintenance.
 
#117 ·
Oh I see... You mean the 1,000 mile check as the break in period;) IMO, the issue with the 05s in particular has more to do with the earlier torque spec. I'm sure this car rec'd a proper 1,000 check. The owner is pretty meticulous. The thing is the bolt doesn't have a break in period and neither does the rear sub frame. This is a metal on metal item that doesn't "settle in" over time like pistons rings do for instance... Only reason that 1,000 mile check would make any difference is if it wasn't properly tq'd at the factory--- which, wouldn't be big surprise to anyone knowing our cars... Following that, a regular tq check of the part is the only way to mitigate the chances of having a problem-- even for a street car...

Best,

Phil

Edit- P.S. I think it's good that we're rehashing this old thread for the noobs:up:
 
#121 ·
This is a metal on metal item that doesn't "settle in" over time like pistons rings do for instance...
Unfortunately, sometimes the OEM toe-link ball joint does "settle in" - there is sometimes too much galvanizing in the "groove" that the ball joint fits into. Even with proper torque, the joint can loosen a bit over time. If you torque your toe-link ball joints and find them loose (at least if more than once), then you should probably remove the toe-link ball joint and clean out the extra galvanizing from the groove so it will fit better and not "settle in".

If your toe-link ball joint remains tight, it probably doesn't have the "too much" galvanizing in on the sub-frame groove.

There is a thread around here somewhere with a good explanation and some photos of the problem..

Note that not all cars have this problem - only some of them...
 
#118 ·
i know the 2 cars i have checked, and heard also, that they are "allways" lose the first time, and tend to not get very lose after that...
 
#119 ·
Ya, pretty sure Lotus doesn't have the best practices for ensuring proper tq at the factory...:rolleyes:
 
#124 ·
Tell me about it. My front lower ball joints were torqued to *maybe* 10 ft-lbs. I doubt they loosened up with use.
 
#127 ·
No, loc-tite isn't an option. In the case of the galvanizing compressing (mine had this), it isn't the nut coming loose that is the problem. The material between the head of the stud and the nut is compressing, creating a loose bolt. You have to tighten it each service interval (7500 miles) to keep up with the compression. Eventually, it fully compresses, but I still check the torque every service interval even after over 4 years and 52,000 miles.
 
#126 ·
Better to use nyloc nuts, IMO, and check the torque when you do your oil changes (provided you don't track the car). The panel is off and it's easy to do then...It's not a great application for a thread locker, IMO... or just replace the system with more robust hardware and basically forget about it...

TP
 
#128 ·
Here's a good one!

Replacing some toe-links today on a client's car with ours... This car sees a handful of track events a year... has about 40K miles...

I was a bit surprised when I saw these. Passenger side was OK. Drivers sid....um, not so much. The stud is worn down by 18% all the way around :crazyeyes

Nicer yet, is the massive indentation it left in the flange surface on the frame. The pictures don't capture the depth of the indention very well, but it's pretty amazing in person. One more track event would have been the end of the line for this lotus. Fortunately, we caught it when we did...

Anyway, thought I'd add a couple more scary pics to the thread...

Best,

Phil
 

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#129 ·
The stud doesn't look worn down but rather necked down from going past yield. This is a classic "reduction in area" used in material testing and specifications. It is due to "elongation" when a specimen passes yield point. As the area of this bolt decreases due to this phenomenon, the per-area load goes up and leads to tensile failure. The depression in the washer shows that the stud was bending back and forth. The preload that Lotus recommends (including increasing the specified torque value) is to maintain a clmap load that always overcomes the tensile load cause by side load on the ball joint. If this side load ever produces a force between the stud and the washer that is higher than the preload, the stud moves and the load is concentrated at exactly the area where the breakage occurs. This slight movement causes a condition where the stud will eventually fail from metal fatigue. There was a photo on one of these threads that showed the fracture. It was a classic cyclical fatigue failure. Lotus' claim of soft galvanized coatings that could brinell certainly would have contributed to the situation but only if the preload was not high enough originally to overcome cornering loads. If preload was high enough, there would never been enough movement to allow the stud to bend, which is the actualk cause of the brinelling, not simply the stud sinking into the coating like in quicksand. The photo above is amazing in that it shows the part on the brink of tensile failure. I work in failure analysis a lot and love to see a part that almost failed but didn't. So much easier to analyze failure when you also have unfailed samples.
 
#136 ·
I just got my RTD Brace in. Does anyone know where a reputable alignment shop in NJ is? I want to put the Brace on sometime in the next few days, but only if I have a good shop I can take it to get it aligned.
 
#139 · (Edited)
What a great thread, but I feel like I should have bought a 6 pack first! But hey, lots of intelligent observation and assistance.

Shinoo -We spoke a few days ago, I'm just about to take possession of an 05 Elise and we discussed your Triology of Terror.

That should narrow me down to about 1,000 people ;-)

I'm sold on the RTV brace, will order once I get the car. Thanks for the help. In the meantime, I'll torque to the 60 nm, use the special lock washer and loctite til I can rassle up a friend to help with the install. Anything else bandaid wise? What's your thought on just replacing the oem ball end / shaft nut and properly retorquing as an interim approach? At least that way we know the ball end shaft & threads aren't beat up.


As for the baffled oil pan, I'll do that too later, before I hit other tracks. Luckily the local track's longer high g turns are lefties, and the slower / low g turns are the righties.

Thanks for your expertise and guidance, I didn't realize, but do now, how committed you are to the cars & the community.
 
#140 ·
LOOSE TOE LINKS!!!!

Wow, I thought this only happens to the "other guy", but I was doing some other stuff and checked the torque on my toe links...and they were $#%ing loose! Less than 10k on the car! Track day in two weeks could have ended very very badly.

Thank you for this thread.
 
#141 ·
The torque spec is soooooo important. You should pull the joint out a touch to be sure the stud is still in good shape... If it was that loose, there may be damage...

If you need a good aftermarket replacement, Kris at DRS can install our kit for you:up:

Cheers,

Phil
 
#147 ·
There's no bolt side... It's a stud that goes into a ball joint. Get a torque wrench of known good calibration and retorque the nut on the front side of the frame to proper spec. better to be slightly too tight than slightly too loose. The threads should be clean and dry (not lubricated) when tightening...

cheers,

Phil
 
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