Check your toe link! - Page 5 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #81 of 173 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 12:55 PM
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Lotus Elise vs Ferrari 430 Scuderia Nürburgring

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post #82 of 173 (permalink) Old 06-14-2009, 06:04 AM
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Toe-LInk Torque

Thanks for the great info. Checked mine today in advance of a track day tomorrow at Pacific Raceways in Seattle. I have only run one track day on R-comps, and one day on the stock Advans. Car has just over 2000 miles and just underwent a tech inspection Friday. Both sides were somewhat loose; 1/4 turn and 1/2 turn to get to 60Nm. There's a few places at Pacific I'd hate to have one fail. I'll be upgrading to an aftermarket toe link in the near future - meantime thanks again for the very poignant information.

Martin
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post #83 of 173 (permalink) Old 06-14-2009, 07:44 AM
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I have a S240, but I am not sure I have the LTS toe link upgrade or not (some long story). I peep in the under tray and saw a golden colour bar and it looks like the toe link in the LTS parts list. Just wonder how to check it out to see whether I has the LTS toe link.

S240 Exige S with BOE FW300 + over 40 mods
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post #84 of 173 (permalink) Old 06-14-2009, 09:57 AM
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With the stock track pack link brace, I had to retorque the bolts before/after every track day. They'd usually require 1/4 to 1/2 turn to get them back to 60Nm. Since putting on the RTDBrace, with the Nordlock washers, I've haven't had to tweak them at all. I still check every time though...
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post #85 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 11:20 AM
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Checking the inner toe link torque and it was spinning in the rear. Not easily actually the torque wrench did click but, not sure how accurate. Need to remove the wheel to get a wrench on the nut and try again. Should it be able to spin. Never check before as it should have had this done at the first dealer service.
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post #86 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulhastings View Post
Checking the inner toe link torque and it was spinning in the rear. Not easily actually the torque wrench did click but, not sure how accurate. Need to remove the wheel to get a wrench on the nut and try again. Should it be able to spin. Never check before as it should have had this done at the first dealer service.
Are you holding the nut in front of the lower A-arm attachment point with a second wrench while you're torqueing the bolt head from the rear? You can't tighten it properly otherwise...
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post #87 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 11:36 AM
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^^ no - it was up on the roll on lift, so couldn't take the wheel off, decided rather tha ntaking the diffuser off we will do it when we have the wheel of during brake bleeding , the elise didn't spin in place, so the nuts of the back side are different (obviously) with the lotus brace.

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post #88 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by fitfan View Post
^^ no - it was up on the roll on lift, so couldn't take the wheel off, decided rather tha ntaking the diffuser off we will do it when we have the wheel of during brake bleeding , the elise didn't spin in place, so the nuts of the back side are different (obviously) with the lotus brace.
Can't you take off the diffuser while on the roll-on lift? Should only take a couple of minutes...
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post #89 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 11:43 AM
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No we were not. It was a Rodney described. However, I thought there was something the rear that keeps it from spinning.

Also I cannot find in my recent service manual and TSB download anything about going from 50nm to 60nm on the inner toe link torque.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apk919 View Post
Are you holding the nut in front of the lower A-arm attachment point with a second wrench while you're torqueing the bolt head from the rear? You can't tighten it properly otherwise...
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post #90 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitfan View Post
^^ no - it was up on the roll on lift, so couldn't take the wheel off, decided rather tha ntaking the diffuser off we will do it when we have the wheel of during brake bleeding , the elise didn't spin in place, so the nuts of the back side are different (obviously) with the lotus brace.
You really want to tighten the toe link bolt with the car on it's tires - not with the wheel off or drooping on a lift. The toe-link bolt also clamps the A-arm bushing in place, and it must be tightened with the car at "ride height" or you will pre-load the A-arm bushing by pre-twisting the rubber in the bushing.

It can be a pain to tighten the suspension bolts with the car setting on it's tires, but it's the proper way to do it.




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post #91 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 11:44 AM
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Yes of course. It was getting late after we just finished the oil service and we decided to address it again in a few day's when finishing the rest of the service with the brake flush.

Quote:
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Can't you take off the diffuser while on the roll-on lift? Should only take a couple of minutes...
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post #92 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 11:45 AM
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Thanks Tim.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TimMullen View Post
You really want to tighten the toe link bolt with the car on it's tires - not with the wheel off or drooping on a lift. The toe-link bolt also clamps the A-arm bushing in place, and it must be tightened with the car at "ride height" or you will pre-load the A-arm bushing by pre-twisting the rubber in the bushing.

It can be a pain to tighten the suspension bolts with the car setting on it's tires, but it's the proper way to do it.
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post #93 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulhastings View Post
No we were not. It was a Rodney described. However, I thought there was something the rear that keeps it from spinning.
There is - on the OEM toe-link bolt/ball joint. There is a slot in the frame that interfaces protruding "ridge" on the toe-link ball joint that prevents the ball joint from spinning in place. However, when you replace that with a toe-link brace, there is a normal bolt that goes in the hole and nothing to keep it from turning except the wrench you put on it to hole it in place.

Quote:
Also I cannot find in my recent service manual and TSB download anything about going from 50nm to 60nm on the inner toe link torque.
I don't know where it is published and don't think that Lotus has updated the Service Manual, but there has been reliable inofrmation (a copy of a letter?) that the Service Manual is not correct and the torque value has been increased.




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05 Lotus Elise - Chrome Orange - No Touring - No LSS - No Hardtop - Lotus Driving Lights - Lotus "Chin Guards" - plain and simple.
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post #94 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulhastings View Post
No we were not. It was a Rodney described. However, I thought there was something the rear that keeps it from spinning.

Also I cannot find in my recent service manual and TSB download anything about going from 50nm to 60nm on the inner toe link torque.
I can't find where it mentioned the change, but the current spec is 60Nm

EDIT: This is from my downloaded version of the Service Manual from late 2007

Quote:
Torque Settings: Nm
- Upper and lower wishbone pivot bolts 45
- Upper and lower swivel joint ball pins 55
- Upper swivel joint plinth to hub carrier - 8.8 grade 45
- 10.9 grade 68
- Toe-link outer ball joint to hub carrier 55
- <b>Toe-link inner ball joint/wishbone to subframe 60</b>
- Toe-link ball joint lock nuts 45
- Damper to lower wishbone 45
- Damper to chassis 45
- Brake caliper to hub carrier - upper M10 45 - 50
- lower M8 26 - 30
- Hub bearing unit to hub carrier 90
- Rear hub nut 220
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post #95 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 11:52 AM
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I guess I should have mentioned my car is an '07 Exige with the track pack. Would this explain not having the protruding ridge?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TimMullen View Post
There is - on the OEM toe-link bolt/ball joint. There is a slot in the frame that interfaces protruding "ridge" on the toe-link ball joint that prevents the ball joint from spinning in place. However, when you replace that with a toe-link brace, there is a normal bolt that goes in the hole and nothing to keep it from turning except the wrench you put on it to hole it in place.

I don't know where it is published and don't think that Lotus has updated the Service Manual, but there has been reliable inofrmation (a copy of a letter?) that the Service Manual is not correct and the torque value has been increased.
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post #96 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulhastings View Post
I guess I should have mentioned my car is an '07 Exige with the track pack. Would this explain not having the protruding ridge?
No... that keeps the joint from spinning, not the bolt. You definitely have the ridge.

The deal is that before the brace, the link had an integral bolt... you tightened the nut to the torque spec... with the track pack, the bolt goes through the inner joint, and spins freely...

Old version:
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post #97 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulhastings View Post
I guess I should have mentioned my car is an '07 Exige with the track pack. Would this explain not having the protruding ridge?
I would think so. The Track Pack means it came with the toe-link brace, so, you have a regular bolt passing through the brace, Heim joint, chassis, and A-arm - you need a wrench on each end to tighten it.

You don't have the ball joint that fits into the slot in the chassis.


Edit: Dang it. apk beat me to it. And provided a picture. I was looking for a photo I had seen and couldn't find. Didn't think to look in the manual...




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post #98 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 12:14 PM
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Is there a picture of the track pack Exige set up? I looked through the rear suspension portion of the service manual and didn't see it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by apk919 View Post
No... that keeps the joint from spinning, not the bolt. You definitely have the ridge.

The deal is that before the brace, the link had an integral bolt... you tightened the nut to the torque spec... with the track pack, the bolt goes through the inner joint, and spins freely...

Old version:
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post #99 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulhastings View Post
Is there a picture of the track pack Exige set up? I looked through the rear suspension portion of the service manual and didn't see it.
Yes... here it is:

EDIT: Oh, yeah... note that my OEM track brace did not have the turnbuckles or the brace to the chassis...

EDIT2: As per Phil's recommendation, torque down the nut, hold the bolt.
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Last edited by apk919; 07-30-2009 at 03:56 PM.
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post #100 of 173 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 12:15 PM
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Also I cannot find in my recent service manual and TSB download anything about going from 50nm to 60nm on the inner toe link torque.
This is as good as it gets:

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f101...-manual-47339/

SERVICE BULLETIN Model: Elise/Exige

Date: 03.08.06 2006/19



TITLE: Rear suspension toe-link torque check.
REASON: To introduce additional service check, and highlight importance for cars regularly subjected to
competition levels of cornering force.
ACTION: As stated in the owner's handbook Maintenance Record booklet (page 9) and Maintenance Schedule:
"The Lotus Elise and Exige are designed as road going sports cars. It is recognised that owners
may wish to use the car occasionally on closed circuit tracks to experience the car’s full range of
dynamic capabilities. However, use of the car in a competitive manner, including timed runs or
laps, is not endorsed by Lotus. This type of timed, competitive use will invalidate warranty and
require appropriate levels of expert vehicle preparation and servicing."
With the increasing use of Elise/Exige on track days and closed circuit events, the previous requirement
for the rear suspension toe-link inboard fixing to be torque checked only at the First After
Sales service, has been amended to a torque check at every service interval.
The hot dip galvanised coating used on the rear subframe can, on Toyota powertrain cars, result in
some initial 'settling-in' of the toe-link ball joint stud spanner flats with the channelled insert on the
subframe (ref. Service Bulletin 2004/09). This process will be accelerated if the car is subjected
to track type usage. The torque figure for the latest type fine thread (1.25mm pitch) ball joint stud
has also been increased from 50 to 60 Nm.
On Rover powertrain cars, no channelled insert was used on the subframe; the orientation of the
ball joint stud flats must manually be set horizontal to provide the maximum diameter for load distribution.
For recommended torque figures for the various ball joints which may be found, refer to
Service Bulletin 2003/11 Issue 4, but note that the latest type fine thread ball joint (A117D0090S)
is supplied as service replacement, with a revised torque of 60 Nm (unless using with early nonhardened
subframe; 45 Nm)
For committed or regular track use, Lotus recommends that all suspension fixings be checked
between sessions, and that the chassis rear brace kit LOTAC05377 (see Service Notes section
DH.5) is fitted to spread the load distribution across a wider base and to increase tolerance to
abuse.
Please update your copies of the following publications with this revised information:
Maintenance Schedule LSL460a (non-USA Elise/Exige);
Maintenance Schedule LSL462 (USA Elise/Exige);
Maintenance Schedule LSL501 (supercharged Exige);
Service Notes manual A111T0327J, (S1) section DE;
Service Notes manual A117T0327J, (S2) section DG;
Service Notes manual A120T0327J, (111R/USA) section DH;
Service Bulletin 2003/11 Issue 4.
Update packages

Last edited by RoadDad; 07-30-2009 at 12:21 PM. Reason: details added
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