Jacking the Elise and Placing on Jackstands - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waydui
FWIW, I only used Points A & B to get all 4 wheels off the ground.
We call that the "Qball" around here.
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post #22 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 10:52 AM
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I have 4 of the jack stands shown in post #8 here http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...ht=jack+stands.

I took a grinder and shaved the ridges off the tops and glued a piece of rubber on the top. Works great and don't have to worry about a hockey puck.

That picture above is very scary!!!! You must have not had a full tank of gas and took the rear wheels off first. That is exactly how Qballs car flipped backwards using those lift points. Took the front wheels off first and backwards she went! Please don't lift your car like that, I don't want to read a post about loosing an ET member due to the car falling on him.

EDIT: Didn't see your next post. I'm glad you have changed your mind!

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post #23 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer360
That picture above is very scary!!!! You must have not had a full tank of gas and took the rear wheels off first. That is exactly how Qballs car flipped backwards using those lift points. Took the front wheels off first and backwards she went! Please don't lift your car like that, I don't want to read a post about loosing an ET member due to the car falling on him.

The more I look at that picture, the more afraid I get!!

This bit of stupidity was performed pre-Qball. If mine had flipped, we'd be calling it a "wayner".

Won't happen again, I promise..
Wayne

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post #24 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer360
I have 4 of the jack stands shown in post #8 here http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...ht=jack+stands.

I took a grinder and shaved the ridges off the tops and glued a piece of rubber on the top. Works great and don't have to worry about a hockey puck.

That picture above is very scary!!!! You must have not had a full tank of gas and took the rear wheels off first. That is exactly how Qballs car flipped backwards using those lift points. Took the front wheels off first and backwards she went! Please don't lift your car like that, I don't want to read a post about loosing an ET member due to the car falling on him.

EDIT: Didn't see your next post. I'm glad you have changed your mind!
I have those same stands w/the pucks. I didn't use them because I was scared to. The surface area of the contact pad seemed a little small, but I'm sure it's fine. Just a mental hurdle you have to get over. I just used the jack to keep the car up.

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post #25 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 02:27 PM
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Using bricks to hold up cars is not a good idea...

Although unlikely, bricks are very brittle and can crack and split (or crumble). Yes, they are strong in compression, but any side loading can be disastrous.

One type of jack to avoid is the old fashioned stamped and welded sheet metal type. They are the type with bent sheet metal legs and a "strap" between each leg. If the spot welds let loose, the legs of the jack stand spread out and the car drops.

The Aluminum Torin jacks (seen on several threads on the forum, and the kind I used - and I first sow them in use in one of Randy's posts) are very strong. All the force is directed straight down through the post to the ground, not any legs. They are basically a post with a flat plate on the bottom to keep it vertical.

I have another type that looks somewhat like the old type, but it has a center post that goes to the ground. The three legs aren't really supporting the weight, they are providing stability.

In any case, when the Elise was sitting on top of my Torin Aluminum jack stands (with hockey pucks), the car was very stable.

One bit of advice when you use any type of jack stand - once you have the car in the air and before you remove the wheels, shake it. Although you don't want it to fall to the ground, it would be better if it happened with the wheels on and you not under it.




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post #26 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-05-2007, 09:48 PM
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Recently did some suspension work and I used it like this..

For putting it on stands I use a 2-step process:

- remove engine undertray
- jack up 1 side, slide rhinoramps under the wheels
- jack up other side until it is just a little higher and put stands underneath
- jack up side that's on rhinoramps and place stands as well

That way the stands are never subjected to much side loads.

I used the front point and the one on the chassis beam under the fuel tank. Car was very stable.

Bye, Arno.
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post #27 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-06-2007, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masheen
i am thinking of raising the entire car off the ground and onto stands by myself, and getting all the wheels off to take them to a shop to get new tires installed, because i don't want to run the risk of insulting the mechanics when telling them how to change the tires on this car, or have them ignore those instructions, or have those instructions as an excuse to charge me a lot more.
I wouldn't give it that much effort. Before I even came in for my tire change I explained to the guys that it wouldn't go on a lift and required a padded, low-profile jack that had to be used at a certain point on the car and they were cool with that. I even brought in my jack just in case and pointed out where to lift and gave them the owner's manual for reference. They were done in about an hour or so with no issues.

What I would watch out for, though, is them overtorquing the lug nuts and overinflating the tires. I retorqued my lug nuts when I got home and a couple were tight enough that I literally had to bounce up and down on my wrench (I'm a fit 220lbs). And, last night, I finally got around to checking my air pressure (I was bad and let it go for a month or so ) my pressures were 35F and 37R . Again, that's after over a month! No wonder the car felt numb and seemed to turn so easily. I just thought it was the fact that they were a different brand of tires.
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post #28 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-06-2007, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icedog_16
I wouldn't give it that much effort. Before I even came in for my tire change I explained to the guys that it wouldn't go on a lift and required a padded, low-profile jack that had to be used at a certain point on the car and they were cool with that. I even brought in my jack just in case and pointed out where to lift and gave them the owner's manual for reference. They were done in about an hour or so with no issues...
that's another, even better/simpler idea for me, that i didn't think of - i'll do just that! - tell them to only lift one side of the car at a time using a jack. i already agreed on the price so hopefully seeing the car in person will not affect it. thanks!

i am still glad i have learned all this other stuff for when i need it.

although i am starting to doubt my creativity.

i just called them asked and they are ok with it. i am going monday, which is supposed to be a reasonable-weather day (the end of this week had snow!).
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post #29 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-06-2007, 08:32 AM
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I change tires often for autocross and it is common to lift one side using the rear side lift point to do both tires. This is also how I have the local tire shop work on my car using a floor jack.

Note, make sure you bring the lug tools you need for your car. That includes the splined driver if you have the original bolts from Lotus and the locking tool if you have the locking bolts (and you should replace this!). If you have replaced these with a stud kit, bring in a thinwalled 17mm socket as they may not have one.

My preference is to actually pull the tires off myself and take them loose to the tire shop so I am in control of the mounting on my car.

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post #30 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-06-2007, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Chase
...My preference is to actually pull the tires off myself and take them loose to the tire shop so I am in control of the mounting on my car.
i like that control too, but simplicity wins, this time at least.
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post #31 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-07-2007, 10:08 PM
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what or where did you get those Praxis cubes you're using on the jack stands?
thanks

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post #32 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-08-2007, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by shay2nak
Arno
what or where did you get those Praxis cubes you're using on the jack stands?
thanks
Well.. Umm.. 'Praxis' is a DIY shop for building materials and equipment here..

They're called 'hammer caps' here in europe. Made from tough rubber and used to cover a small sledgehammer/mallet used when laying pavement slabs or cobblestones by hand and you need more weight than a normal rubber hammer.



The cover for the 1.5Kg mallet was pretty close to the size of the jackstand, so I just had to cut out a few mm's along the edges for them to fit over the ends.

Bye, Arno.

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post #33 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-08-2007, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Arno
Recently did some suspension work and I used it like this..

For putting it on stands I use a 2-step process:

- remove engine undertray
- jack up 1 side, slide rhinoramps under the wheels
- jack up other side until it is just a little higher and put stands underneath
- jack up side that's on rhinoramps and place stands as well

That way the stands are never subjected to much side loads.

I used the front point and the one on the chassis beam under the fuel tank. Car was very stable.

Bye, Arno.

How do you remove the engine undertray without first jacking the car?

Also... you have MORE than 2 steps...
post #34 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-08-2007, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by qball
How do you remove the engine undertray without first jacking the car?
I just remove the diffuser first from the back, then from the sides I stick my arm under car, loosen large center bolts.

Then remove the small bolts on each side, remove the large center bolts.

Undertray now drops onto the floor. Slide it forward and then sideways from under the car.

And it's out of there! About 5 minutes work.

Putting it back is pretty similar process. At first you struggle a bit, but after a while it starts to become routine and it's no biggie.

Quote:
Also... you have MORE than 2 steps...
Yeah.. It boils down to jacking up one side and putting it on rhinoramps and then fitting the jackstands. Keeps it nice and level when setting it on the stands.

Bye, Arno.

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post #35 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-12-2007, 09:07 AM
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i ended-up having to get all the wheels of the car to get new tires mounted after all. so i raised the whole car.

a slight modification to the suggested process of raise at A, place stand at B, place stand at C, repeat on the other side: instead i used my ramps to hold up points B instead of using jack stands - looks much more stable and i don't see any disadvantages in my case (except that the ramps are not as portable for track days).

in general, i just realized, a potential risk is the difference in heights between the ramps and the stands, but in my case they are close (as far as i remember) when the stand is all the way down on its lowest setting. the angle (and thus weight) of the car may be slightly towards front or rear, but not noticeably in my case (and so i can't even tell/remember). i didn't think of this last night so i will check the difference better.

others have suggested using ramps as an intermediate step after which the car ends up all on the stands eventually anyway. in my case i left the ramps in place.

note this is only useful for when the car only needs to be raised slightly, as for removing all wheels since may ramp height does not give enough height to work under the car.
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post #36 of 141 (permalink) Old 06-02-2007, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Randy Chase
Place a jackstand under Point B. Place another jackstand under point C on the same side. Lower the jack onto the stands.
How do you align the jack stands with the B & C jacking points while the car is up on the jack?
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post #37 of 141 (permalink) Old 06-04-2007, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by solar
How do you align the jack stands with the B & C jacking points while the car is up on the jack?
the jack goes to A, stands go to B and C. they are not in each other's way. apart from that, i am confused as to what your confusion is.

Last edited by masheen; 06-04-2007 at 11:19 AM.
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post #38 of 141 (permalink) Old 06-04-2007, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by waydui
The more I look at that picture, the more afraid I get!!

This bit of stupidity was performed pre-Qball. If mine had flipped, we'd be calling it a "wayner".

Won't happen again, I promise..
Wayne
That raised the hair on the back of my neck to see. Please do not get under that ever again Wayne without a much more secure way to lift it. Whew....

your a much braver man than I.

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post #39 of 141 (permalink) Old 06-04-2007, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masheen
that's another, even better/simpler idea for me, that i didn't think of - i'll do just that! - tell them to only lift one side of the car at a time using a jack. i already agreed on the price so hopefully seeing the car in person will not affect it. thanks!

i am still glad i have learned all this other stuff for when i need it.

although i am starting to doubt my creativity.

i just called them asked and they are ok with it. i am going monday, which is supposed to be a reasonable-weather day (the end of this week had snow!).
I believe you have already got the job done, but would like to add a comment regarding the above. Qball, whose car was dropped backwards off a lift, also slowly explained the proper procedure and provided the owners manual to the shop. He went over every step detail by detail. He had a power-point presentation.

They waited until he left and then did what they wanted.

xtn

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post #40 of 141 (permalink) Old 06-04-2007, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by solar
How do you align the jack stands with the B & C jacking points while the car is up on the jack?
I forget what I used to align the jack for point "A", but the rear one is pretty easy. Once you take off the undertray, you will see the shear panel. This is the large flat panel of aluminum with the large holes in it directly under the fuel tank. At the rear of the shear panel, there is a beam that runs from one side of the car to the other. Place the jack stand under this beam between two bolts as close to the outside edge of the car as you can get (within reason). If you are only taking the rear tires off you don't need to use the fronts points. Use the center to point to lift one side, place the jack stand under the rear point, and take the rear tire off. Then repeat for the other side. You will end up with the front sitting on the tires and the rear on jack stands. This works fine and is stable as long as you put wheel chocks on BOTH SIDE OF BOTH front tires as you no longer have an emergency brake when the rear is on jack stands.

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