Jacking the Elise and Placing on Jackstands - Page 4 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #61 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-04-2010, 06:45 PM
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This is going to go against what Lotus says and alot of the comments here but recently when I changed out the gas tank, oil pan and radiator on my 2006 Elise I jacked the car up at point A (refer to manual) using a hockey puck on my speed jack. I jacked up one side until I could get 3 - 2 x 10's under the tires then lowered the car. Went to other side and jacked up until 6 - 2 x 10's were under the tires and lowered. Back to first side and raised until 6 - 2 x 10's were under there too. Each top 2 x 10 had wheel blocks built in.

Then when I had to have the tires off (for the radiator) I removed the front wheels and placed jack stands under the A frame of the suspension as close to the wheel hub as possible while being in contact with metal. It's best to have a jack stand that isn't the smallest size you can get so the top of the stand is wide enough to easily reach across both sides of the A frame. If you come closer to the wheel you'll touch the rubber were the wheel pivots to steer. This is only on the front wheel of course since the back wheels don't steer. A larger jack stand will be more stable. I'm not talking about the high falutin' ones guys are using here, just the old fashion jack stands available everywhere.

The reason I did it this way was because I was going to be under the car pushing and pulling with all my might on the gas tank or oil pan or various bolts and I wanted the car to have the maximum lateral stability ie. minimum likelihood of twisting and falling off jack stands onto my face.

These guys in the dealership are working under a hoist which is extremely stable so points B and C or B and D are ok. Also, they want you to have them do the work so they claim you'll wreck the car doing it any other way.

This waydui guy looks like he's got a death wish. I'd be dead today if I attempted that with the amount of shoving I had to do to change the gas tank. Remember the car is less than 2000 lbs.. When your back's on the ground and your shoving as hard as you can, you could probably generate 500 lbs of force and shift the car.

Also; using a thin layer of rubber where the stand meets the A arm would be a good idea, though I didn't because like an idiot, I bought the smallest jack stand you can get (because it was the one on sale) and it actually was a hair short of reaching across the near end (the one closest to the tire but not touching the steering pivot) so I had to have it just so to work. The rubber would have interfered with locating the jack stand. Too bad I didn't take pictures or this would be easy to understand.

The good thing for you is you only need to raise the car up enough to get the wheels off, not enough to work under the car. If you have the first side of the car lifted and sitting on stands, then as you lift the car on the other side, there will be alot of force pushing the car sideways on the two stands on the first side. It would be nice to lift the car chassis up to it's final height with platforms under the tires on all corners before lifting one side to remove the wheels. This way you wont be tending to push the car off the jack stands on the far side of the car as you raise the near side. Once the chassis is up, you can put jack stands at B and C or D and you should be OK to lift the other side. Hockey pucks would be almost essential if your using these points and conventional jack stands with their uneven contact surface where they meet the car.

Brett
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post #62 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-05-2010, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Kneeno View Post
I bought 4 bottle hydraulic jacks (2 ton each capacity) and I'm planning to use them tomorrow to remove the wheels -> with hockey pucks as recommended . . I didn't see anyone mention them at all in this thread. . will they work okay or should I return them and buy the kind with a locking pin adjustment. . .
It's my first attempt and I hate to screw it up. . .
Bottle jacks are still jacks, not jack stands. You never want to be under a car held up by a jack as the jack can fail - without notice - at any time. Jack stands provide a solid surface and lock in place. A hydraulic jack is only as good as the tiny O-ring (made in China) that is holding the pressure against the cylinder inside the jack.

Jacks are for lifting.

Jack stands are for supporting.



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Originally Posted by bunsw View Post
This is going to go against what Lotus says and a lot of the comments here but ...
Nothing wrong with supporting the car on it's wheels - that's what many of us use RhinoRamps for (I have two sets for when necessary).

But you seem to underestimate the stability of jack stands. I've done lots of work on various types of cars - you think you are pushing and pulling hard putting in a light weight gas tank, try a big block V8 with attached transmission.

Just make sure that the car is stable on the jack stands - the surest way to test is to give the car a big push and shake after you get it on the stands and before you crawl under it. If you are confident that the car will stay on the jack stands when you push and shake it, don't get under it.

As for using the suspension arms - that's not a good idea. It's fine for many cars, but the Elise's suspension is made up of welded together tubes - they are not meant to take the bending loads that you will apply to them by placing them on a jack stand. Although you may get away with it, it is not recommended as you may be bending the A-arms, or even slightly crushing the tubes (which reduce their strength).

It's best to support the car with the wheels off the ground by using the "B" and "C" or "D" jack points. Tony's lift kit also works fine (I even have a set) too.




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post #63 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-05-2010, 04:46 PM
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Yeah, I looked at those bottle jacks and returned them. Bought Jack stands from autozone and didn't have any problems. Thanks for the advice!!
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post #64 of 141 (permalink) Old 04-05-2010, 06:36 PM
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Tim Mullen

Yes I see your point. I'll have to try it Lotus' way next time.

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post #65 of 141 (permalink) Old 05-05-2010, 08:21 AM
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I had the diffuser off last night to install my new Larini and would like to know if it's ok to place the jack at the center of the rear frame member and jack it this way. I purchased the jack helper and it works great but you need to replace the bolts after removing the diffuser for it to work. Would you place the jack stands on the outer ends of the frame member(to the left and right of the bolts used for the jack helper)??

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e

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post #66 of 141 (permalink) Old 05-06-2010, 12:26 PM
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I had the diffuser off last night to install my new Larini and would like to know if it's ok to place the jack at the center of the rear frame member and jack it this way. I purchased the jack helper and it works great but you need to replace the bolts after removing the diffuser for it to work. Would you place the jack stands on the outer ends of the frame member(to the left and right of the bolts used for the jack helper)??
If I was to do that, I would get a wooden board to place along the frame member and centered on the jack - to spread the load out. Leave room on the ends to place the jack stands.




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post #67 of 141 (permalink) Old 10-24-2010, 09:23 AM
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Just want to clarify-

Is the "C" jacking point the area next to the larger bolt at the top of this picture. Just want to confirm before I make a mistake... Thanks.
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Last edited by Gleek; 10-24-2010 at 09:24 AM. Reason: clarification
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post #68 of 141 (permalink) Old 10-25-2010, 10:48 AM
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Remember the car is less than 2000 lbs.. When your back's on the ground and your shoving as hard as you can, you could probably generate 500 lbs of force and shift the car.
Not all of us are world class weight lifters?? lol...

As stated earlier, jack stands in the proper location are quite stable.

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post #69 of 141 (permalink) Old 06-03-2011, 08:01 PM
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Quick question, I have seen pictures of the jack helper in use, but I was uncomfortable how it was moving on top of the jack. Is there a trick or has anyone drilled a hole into the jack helper to bolt it to the jack itself?

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post #70 of 141 (permalink) Old 06-03-2011, 08:37 PM
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I drilled a large hole in the bottom (just larger than the bolt holding on the jack saddle) and a small hole in the top (to access the bolt with an Allen wrench. EZ on, EZ off!

The bolt has to be short enough to fit inside the jack helper (mine was, stock) and through the large hole.



Quote:
Originally Posted by malakaone View Post
Quick question, I have seen pictures of the jack helper in use, but I was uncomfortable how it was moving on top of the jack. Is there a trick or has anyone drilled a hole into the jack helper to bolt it to the jack itself?

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post #71 of 141 (permalink) Old 06-04-2011, 08:25 AM
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^^^ I agree. Without this kind of scary, very scary.

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post #72 of 141 (permalink) Old 06-04-2011, 11:47 AM
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The base of my jack has this slotted insert that the jack lift attachment seats into. I put a hockey puck on the orginal lift attachment and created another slotted connection and mounted it to the Jack Helper. So now I just swap out the lift attachment depending on what I want to do, and the Jack Helper just seats right into the base of the jack, nice and stable.

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post #73 of 141 (permalink) Old 07-15-2011, 07:02 AM
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Holy qball Batman!

Seventy-two posts on lifting and supporting your car! Now seventy-three counting this one!

I figured I'd open this thread and find something like, put the jack here and then put your stands here, here, here, and here and that'd be it...bing, bang, boom. I see it's not quite that simple, huh?

I'm gearing up to install Sector 111 motormount inserts and a 2bular silencer and sport cat.

Thank goodness I found this thread!

Thanks guys!
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post #74 of 141 (permalink) Old 07-15-2011, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Willi-P View Post
Seventy-two posts on lifting and supporting your car! Now seventy-three counting this one!

I figured I'd open this thread and find something like, put the jack here and then put your stands here, here, here, and here and that'd be it...bing, bang, boom. I see it's not quite that simple, huh?

I'm gearing up to install Sector 111 motormount inserts and a 2bular silencer and sport cat.

Thank goodness I found this thread!

Thanks guys!
It is "that simple" as long as you follow the guidelines in the manual. Part of the issue is after seeing the "Q-ball" moment, most people want some reassurance, etc.

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post #75 of 141 (permalink) Old 07-15-2011, 03:26 PM
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It is "that simple" as long as you follow the guidelines in the manual. Part of the issue is after seeing the "Q-ball" moment, most people want some reassurance, etc.
Gotcha carphoria...I guess there's nothing quite like a car landing on a guy's face to get everybody's attention, right?
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post #76 of 141 (permalink) Old 07-17-2011, 10:24 AM
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Gotcha carphoria...I guess there's nothing quite like a car landing on a guy's face to get everybody's attention, right?
Did I miss that?

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post #77 of 141 (permalink) Old 07-18-2011, 07:42 AM
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Sorry for the confusion here. This was a reference to a different accident...not the "qball." There's a link to another forum posted by Randy Chase @ post 14 in this thread. Guess I was mixing to two incidents in my mind.

Anyway, here's the link to the mashed face thread:

914World.com - A Porsche 914 Community / Forum / Club

For me, the moral of the story, or stories, is if you're gonna' work under your car, you need to properly support it using good jack stands.

Reading this thread not only taught me something important about how to lift and support my car, it has also motivated me to order a new set of quality stands to replace the el cheapos I've foolishly trusted my life to in the past!
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post #78 of 141 (permalink) Old 07-29-2011, 07:55 AM
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4 post lift.

(from a newbie who just read the entire thread)

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post #79 of 141 (permalink) Old 08-19-2011, 05:50 PM
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Clarification on raising both front wheels (not rears).

I've read through this thread couple times, think I saw question asked about raising just front end but didn't see a clear response.

I wanted to get both front wheels off the ground (changing tires, wanted to take both fronts to tire shop at same time to get new ones mounted), also to do some work on headlights while I had both wheels off.

I have one floor jack (Torin aluminum "racing" jack from Pep Boys) and two jack stands (the Torin 3 ton aluminums from Pep Boys with hockey pucks). I raised passenger side with jack at point A, then placed a jackstand under passenger side point B. Lowered jack, took it to drivers side, raised drivers side at point A, then placed jackstand at drivers side point B, lowered and removed jack and had front end up on jackstands. I did reverse of this when I was done to get car back on the ground.

My question: anything wrong with this procedure? I never felt like anything was dangerous, never felt like jack or jackstands were tippy or under undue stress. Once on both jackstands, car was certainly stable (had rear tires chocked). I did wonder about "torquing" the frame during the raising and lowering procedure. Car didn't make any funny noises or anything. Does this seem ok for future procedure?
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post #80 of 141 (permalink) Old 10-16-2011, 06:35 AM
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It's fine to support the front of the car with stands under point B at the front.

When I took my Elise for an MOT the guy jacked up the car with a 2 post lift under points A....
The whole car came off the ground and teetered on the balance point. This will not damage the car but is clearly unsafe.

I would say if jacking the front only (you want both front wheels off the ground) then use points B and if jacking the rear only (you want both rear wheels off the ground) then use the points C or D under the rear diffuser.

If you want the 4 wheels off the ground then use points B and points C or D. Don't use A, or A and B to raise the whole car as it will not be safely balanced.

Last edited by zebraman; 10-16-2011 at 06:40 AM.
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