What's the Best Synthetic Oil for Elise? - Page 7 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
View Poll Results: What's the Best Synthetic Oil for Elise?
MOTUL 8100 X-cess 5W-40 21 5.53%
MOTUL 300 V Power 5W-40 23 6.05%
Red Line 'Street' 5W-40 29 7.63%
AMSOIL 'European Car Formula' 5W-40 40 10.53%
Mobil 1 ‘European Car Formula’ 0W-40 71 18.68%
Mobil 1 ‘Turbo Diesel Truck’ 5W-40 49 12.89%
Mobil Delvac 1 ‘Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil’ 5W-40 11 2.89%
Castrol Syntec 5W-40 or 5W-50 54 14.21%
Havoline Synthetic 5W-40 (It's avail. in your area) 32 8.42%
OTHER… 50 13.16%
Voters: 380. You may not vote on this poll

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post #121 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-05-2006, 08:24 PM
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Here is his actual first reply ( he was a bit more in depth in the next, but I lost it)

>-----
Mark,
Don't be afraid of the Mobil 1 5W-40 "diesel" oil as it is totally rated for gasoline engine use. It is a superb oil, loaded with anti-wear, detergency and a kick butt 40W oil. You can buy it very reasonably at WalMart, Autozone, etc. I know several Mobil lube engineers who have run it in their Lotus since the beginning of time... It is a superb oil...
>-----

Certainly that is one person's opinion.
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post #122 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 09:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Spudboy
It's like the stuff they call organically grown food.
Yup, cuz they pissed on it instead of pouring pesticide.
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post #123 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-07-2006, 10:10 AM
 
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Pennzoil Platinum has a new 5W-40 Euro. spec. oil

Pennzoil Platinum has a new 5w-40 European spec. oil for about CAD $8.99 Canadian.
http://www.pennzoil.com/products/mot.../platinum.html

Data sheet for the oil is attached. I don't know if it is Group III or Group IV based oil.
EDIT: According to this, it is a Group III.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf PennzoilPlatinumSyntheticEuropeanFormulation.pdf (124.5 KB, 225 views)

Last edited by B10BT; 12-07-2006 at 10:28 AM.
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post #124 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-30-2006, 08:19 PM
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Has anyone tried Eneos (Nippon Oil) Fully Synthetic? They have 5W-40 and it was available at Autobacs. It was a bit pricey at 8.99 a bottle, but supposedly, it's the #1 selling oil in Japan.

http://www.eneos.us/web/5w-40.aspx
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post #125 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-31-2006, 09:02 AM
 
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A while back I mentioned that Manhattan Motor Cars
was using Mobil 1's - 0W-40 when doing Elise oil changes
and the Lotus Rep (Mike Fisher) said that Lotus had no
problem with it. Personally, I've been using the Castrol
5W-40 'fully synthetic' and it hold up really well. Wouldn't
have any worries if they ran out of it near me and I had
to settle for Mobil-1. If their 5-40 was available, that would
be my preference, but in the event it wasn't, I'd use the
OW -40 by Mobil-1.
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post #126 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-31-2006, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgemanron
A while back I mentioned that Manhattan Motor Cars
was using Mobil 1's - 0W-40 when doing Elise oil changes
and the Lotus Rep (Mike Fisher) said that Lotus had no
problem with it. Personally, I've been using the Castrol
5W-40 'fully synthetic' and it hold up really well. Wouldn't
have any worries if they ran out of it near me and I had
to settle for Mobil-1. If their 5-40 was available, that would
be my preference, but in the event it wasn't, I'd use the
OW -40 by Mobil-1.
I'm using the Castrol Full Synthetic Syntec 5w-40. I found it in Autozone. This is the same one that FVMC uses.

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post #127 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-01-2007, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotus54
Here is his actual first reply ( he was a bit more in depth in the next, but I lost it)

>-----
Mark,
Don't be afraid of the Mobil 1 5W-40 "diesel" oil as it is totally rated for gasoline engine use. It is a superb oil, loaded with anti-wear, detergency and a kick butt 40W oil. You can buy it very reasonably at WalMart, Autozone, etc. I know several Mobil lube engineers who have run it in their Lotus since the beginning of time... It is a superb oil...
>-----

Certainly that is one person's opinion.

I looked into the Mobil 1 5W-40 turbo diesel oil question myself last month, and Stan did a nice write-up of the issue at moremonkey.com. After researching it myself online (after reading Stan's write-up), I decided to use it, and ordered it online from Autobarn.com (I couldn't find it locally, and Autobarn gave me free shipping if I ordered over $100 worth).

Note that Mobil 1 5W-40 turbo diesel oil, Mobil Delvac 5W-40, and the OLD Moble 1 5W-40 Truck and SUV oil (before they switched that name to 5W-30) are EXACTLY the same oil.

The so called diesel oils have more protective additives than the standard gasoline car oils, and in the case of the Mobil 1 5W-40 turbo diesel oil (a.k.a. Delvac), is actually better for a gasoline engine. So, why is that? It is because the government is limiting the type of oil additives for gasoline engines to reduce emissions from cars. In particular, a very helpful additive, ZDDP, is reduced in the newer SL rated oils because it can cause long term harm to the catalytic converter. However, this additive provides protection for metal-to-metal sliding surfaces under high pressure, such as piston rings and the slipper type cam followers that are on the high cams of our engine. The government stated that the SL rated oil still provides sufficient protection for slipper cam followers (which were common in older engines). However, they changed their standard for allowed wear on these cam followers by a factor of 3 in order to make that statement!! I consider that cheating.

I can't quantify for you how much quicker our engine will wear with the SL rated oils. If you aren't on the high cams much, maybe it won't matter in the long run and other parts of the engine will die off first. I also can't detail the impact of all the additive changes in regards to the wear on all the engine parts. The ZDDP issue stood out in Stan's description and in other references I saw online.

So, if choosing between Mobil Delvac 5W-40 (a.k.a. Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel) or a synthetic SL rated oil, you can choose to either protect your engine better (Mobil 1 turbo diesel/Delvac), or protect your catalytic converter (SL rated oil).
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post #128 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-01-2007, 02:21 PM
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i recently just changed my oil w/ the redline 5w-40, i swear afterwards, the car sounded louder and drove faster...... probably jsut the byproduct from fresh oil...

i do hate how the bottle is w/ redline, makes it really hard to fill old oil for recycling
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post #129 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-01-2007, 08:26 PM
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why not put the old oil into a gallon container (milk, juice, etc)? I like using the gallon apple juice bottles since the cap screws on and the plastic is of a thicker material than the gallon milk containers.

It's Delux son, Delux. It's not that hard.

http://itsdeluxson.com/
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post #130 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 09:09 PM
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So, after reading this very long thread, and learning way more about engine oil than I had expected I would, I have a very simple question:

What 5W-40 motor oils meet/exceed Lotus specs and are fully synthetic (Group IV or V, IIRC)?

I can find Castol pretty easily around here (Los Angeles), and they have a 5W-40.

Cameron
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post #131 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 10:01 PM
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post #132 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeede
So, after reading this very long thread, and learning way more about engine oil than I had expected I would, I have a very simple question:

What 5W-40 motor oils meet/exceed Lotus specs and are fully synthetic (Group IV or V, IIRC)?

I can find Castol pretty easily around here (Los Angeles), and they have a 5W-40.

Cameron

Mobil 1 5-40 'turbo diesel' fully meets/exceeds Lotus specs and seems to be easy to find.

The Castrol is a Group III oil if I recall correctly.

Mark
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post #133 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 09:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotus54
Mobil 1 5-40 'turbo diesel' fully meets/exceeds Lotus specs and seems to be easy to find.

The Castrol is a Group III oil if I recall correctly.

Mark
Have used Castrol's fully synthetic 5W-40 many times
on the Elise and it has stayed light and honey like in
color from change to change. Engine also performs
nicely with it.
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post #134 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 11:21 AM
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What Lotus USA say about oil grade

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgemanron
A while back I mentioned that Manhattan Motor Cars
was using Mobil 1's - 0W-40 when doing Elise oil changes
and the Lotus Rep (Mike Fisher) said that Lotus had no
problem with it. Personally, I've been using the Castrol
5W-40 'fully synthetic' and it hold up really well. Wouldn't
have any worries if they ran out of it near me and I had
to settle for Mobil-1. If their 5-40 was available, that would
be my preference, but in the event it wasn't, I'd use the
OW -40 by Mobil-1.
Below is the result of my communications with Lotus Cars USA
I am Michael Hayes
The e-mail to Mr. James I found in this forum
Andy plant is no longer at Lotus

Dear Mr. Hayes,
In response to your e-mail as per Andy Plant and our Owners manual Lotus Cars USA only recommends that a fully synthetic 5W/40 oil is used for oil change intervals. As Andy stated to Mr. James the one oil change using the mobile one 10W/30 synthetic oil (and in your case the 0W/40 synthetic oil) surely did not cause any damage resulting in durability or any warranty issues, but technically they should have only used 5W/40 synthetic oil as per the recommended lubricants as noted in the owners handbook. Our FSE has been in contact with Palm Beach Motors and the change has been made to use this lubricant in our vehicles. Shammar the service manager at Palm Beach Motors Cars is offering to have you bring your vehicle back in and they will change out the oil to the synthetic 5W/40. You just need to call and schedule an appointment. I do apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you. If you have any other questions feel free to contact me via e-mail or my direct dial phone number 770-476-6554.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: michaelh
Subject: Re: Recommended Oil
Hello Sandra,
Your e-mail seems to contadict what you had told me yesterday regarding the acceptability of using 0w-40 that your service representitive had said was acceptable. You are now saying that Lotus Cars in the UK are saying that only 5w-40 is acceptabe, therefore where does that leave me when PalmBeach Motor Cars used 0w-40 on my Elise. I am very concerned about durability and warranty issues in the future. Below I have pasted the e-mail from Andy plant.
Your response would be much appreciated.
Regards,
Michael Hayes



Good afternoon Mr. James
Thank you for your email, as per our telephone conversation today, Lotus
Cars USA only recommends that a fully synthetic 5W/40 oil is used after
the running in period oil has been drained at the aftersales service.
I'm sure that no damage will occur due to the use of Mobile 1 10W-30 as
used by [your dealer], but technically they should have only used 5W/40 as
per the recommended lubricants page as noted in the owners handbook.
[Your dealer] is rectifying this situation with their oil
representative as we speak and has said that they will happily carry out a
free oil change when they have the correct grade oil
I would recommend calling them in a week or so if they have not contacted
you by then.
Regards,
Andy Plant
Warranty Manager


----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Mothershed
Dear Mr. Hayes,
Thank you for your patience in waiting for a response regarding the recommended oil for your Lotus car. We have received official word that the
Havoline Synthetic 5W/40 is what is recommended for oil change interval for Lotus cars.
The FSE will recommend that Palm Beach Motors use the fully synthetic 5W-40 on any of our cars.
This is the only viscosity that we have tested in the engine, so that is why it is the only one that is approved.
Testing other oils is quite expensive and labor intensive as the engines must be run for long times and then inspected, I believe they test over
100,000 mile equivalent. This is why only one oil is usually tested and approved.
Sorry for the confusion on yesterday. Thank you for contacting us regarding this matter.
Best Regards,
Sandra Mothershed
Customer Service Coordinator
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sandra Mothershed
Subject: RE: Recommended Oil

Good Morning Mr. Hayes,
I was unable to receive the attachment you sent from Elise Talk, however I am awaiting an official response from the UK regarding this matter and I will be contacting you later on today.
Best Regards
Sandra Mothershed
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post #135 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 01:11 PM
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The only concern I'd have about running diesel oil is that the oil also has soot detergent additives in it. Modern diesels often have an Exhaust Gas Recirculation to improve emissions. Unfortunately mixing oil vapors from the CCV with the soot from the EGR = sludge. The soot detergent helps a little but isn't a cure.

Back on topic, just keep in mind that the more additives an oil has for soot or vicosity or whatever... means there's less oil for lubrication.

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post #136 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotus54
Mobil 1 5-40 'turbo diesel' fully meets/exceeds Lotus specs and seems to be easy to find.

The Castrol is a Group III oil if I recall correctly.
It's still "fully synthetic" as in meaning it's not a synthetic/regular oil blend. Castrol's Synthetic is similar to the Havoiline in which group it's made from.

In reality, it doesn't matter which Group the oil is made from, the only thing that matters is how it performs. The Group is pretty much the "base" - what it starts with. The processing is what gives it its quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JnC
The only concern I'd have about running diesel oil is that the oil also has soot detergent additives in it. <...>Back on topic, just keep in mind that the more additives an oil has for soot or viscosity or whatever... means there's less oil for lubrication.
This is my concern with using Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel oil. Yes, it meets the specifications, but is it optimal? Castrol, Havoline, Shell, heck, even Wal-Mart's oil probably meets the specifications. But which one is optimal?




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post #137 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 04:26 PM
 
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Best oil FOR WHAT? Longest use/abuse? Price? Power? Reduced wear/friction? For how you use your engine/car? Best matches the clearances, pressure, and temperatures of your engine? This list could go on, and on.

An oil that may be very good for several of the above, may not be best for the others.

Several well known (and well promoted) oils, do not last as long as others - their additive packages break down rather quickly - even though they may show performance gains on a dyno right after an oil change.

As long as there will be oil used for lubricating engines, there will be controversy. Do you own research, talk to racers and engine builders who know the wear in their engines, and make your own choices. There are many very good oils available, just don't fall for marketing hype.

For use in the 2ZZ engine (with the high speed cam riding on a non-rolling rocker arm without pressure lubrication), you might want to check into how well a given oil performs in the Falex pin and V-block tests for ASTM D-3233 - http://www.ice32.com/Falex_Flier.pdf

Oil analysis is another tool that will help you decide if the oil you are currently running is doing its job, and for how long.

I hope this helps.
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post #138 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 05:04 PM
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How about Valvoline SynPower 5W-40? It's available at my local Kragen

Cameron

P.S. I will hardly ever be tracking the car, so this is just for everyday use.
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post #139 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-10-2007, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeede
How about Valvoline SynPower 5W-40? It's available at my local Kragen

Cameron

P.S. I will hardly ever be tracking the car, so this is just for everyday use.
I just bought a case of this today...it was the only thing I could find out in Agoura/Thousand Oaks. Got it at a Valvoline oil change shop for $5.99 quart and hope it's o.k. They wanted to change the oil for me for $110, but did it myself. New car and want to "get to know" the car

Mark

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post #140 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-11-2007, 03:55 AM
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I just read an ad for Napa announcing their brand fully synthetic oil on sale for $2.50 (approx) per quart.

Does anyone know what company supplies their oil?

Thanks.

Jeff
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