Apple defies FBI - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-19-2016, 07:38 AM
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So much fear mongering. I think the terrorists already won. They accomplished exactly as their label.
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-19-2016, 08:31 AM
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Yesterdays news:

Story #1: Apple device so secure the feds cannot get into it. This particular device was owned by a murder...people are outraged.
Story #2: Hospital software overtaken and held ransom by hackers due to inadequate security... people are outraged.
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-19-2016, 09:23 AM
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While I have no issues with my government snooping (I have nothing to hide), I do like what McAfee has to say.

MCAFEE: I'll decrypt San Bernardino phone free - Business Insider
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 08:41 AM
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While I have no issues with my government snooping (I have nothing to hide), I do like what McAfee has to say.

MCAFEE: I'll decrypt San Bernardino phone free - Business Insider

So are you ok with the government coming over to your house and doing random searches? I mean after all...nothing to hide right?
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 09:57 AM
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The phone was owned by the shooter's employer. They could've turned off the security feature. I assume no one even thought about that.

Couldn't Apple devise the program and tell the FBI to bring the phone to their offices, where the pgm could be used under their supervision?

That would mean the pgm had no chance of being released to anyone else.

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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 10:01 AM
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They could, possibly, but then they've allowed the legal precedent to be established that any judge can order the same thing under the All Writs provision with no formalized laws governing the practice. Apparently the government has asked Apple to unlock 15 iphones in the last four months alone. It would never stop.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 10:03 AM
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The phone was owned by the shooter's employer. They could've turned off the security feature. I assume no one even thought about that.

Couldn't Apple devise the program and tell the FBI to bring the phone to their offices, where the pgm could be used under their supervision?

That would mean the pgm had no chance of being released to anyone else.


I believe the worry is that if Apple is required to create something to even allow this, then it opens up the possibility of it being misused either by an employee or a hacker.

Also, if that indeed happens, I wouldn't be surprised if it opens them up to lawsuits for creating a backdoor that allowed hackers to pull personal information.
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 10:48 AM
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So are you ok with the government coming over to your house and doing random searches? I mean after all...nothing to hide right?
Yeah, I was waiting for some over the top remark like that

Listen, if it bothers you, it bothers you but if it doesn't bother me, you shouldn't be bothered by it.
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 12:50 PM
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Read Apple?s unprecedented letter to customers about security | The Verge

I sure like the idealism that Cook is expounding. This country stands against tyranny. History past and very present shows us that government can rarely be trusted, will take what you have if they want.

So what do you think?
I would like to know the breakdown of practicing computer software professionals on this issue. My take on the issue is that the more you know about how encryption works, the less willing you are to allow the government access to any encryption keys (including the build keys to make an iOS image), and even less inclined to ever build in a backdoor that circumvents encryption.

For those who advocate forcing Apple to compromise the security around the phone at the behest of the US Government, what do you think Apple should do when Government X asks the same thing? How do you think those behaviors will influence Apple's success in selling computer equipment worldwide?
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 04:57 PM
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I hope we all understand what is at issue here is not this specific mobile phone owned by a specific company/Government org. This phone more than likely had a mobile device management software program like AirWatch that would allow significant control and access. Many of us with company funded phones are familiar with this software.

Hopefully we also understand that Apple has already complied with government requests to hack into more than 70 specific iPhones since 2008 and has complied with hundreds of additional government request for information in the last 12 months alone.

We also know that 95% of the terrorists plots that have been "foiled" by the FBI have been plots that have been "seeded" or directly involved by the FBI from their beginning. Given the amount of information they have about all of us it's not probable they were "unaware" of these two. They have the ability to "play back time" and rewind the digital actions of these two people without access to this specific iphone.

This case is not about this specific iPhone. It is a "test case" the FBI is presenting to put public pressure on Apple and other tech companies because they don't have legal authority to proceed. The FBI wouldn't be trying this case in the court of public opinion if they had the legal authority to force Apple to comply. These terrorists carefully destroyed their personal phones and personal computers prior to their actions. It's inconceivable they would leave a loose end on a single company phone. The fact that there is a debate is because it's not settle law. This is a good thing.

Those of you familiar in dealing with crisis events will understand the difference between what actually happened and what the media presents. Think in this way when you watch the news....It's not what are they telling me but "why would they want me to think that?"
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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 05:03 PM
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I think people who are a little more into computers see that

1. Creating a "key" that works for uncle sam also means it can work for thieves, beijing, whoever. Its a lot of power.
2. Machines and programs already exist to store and analyze massive loads of data, and they are getting better all the time
3. data leads to knowledge and knowledge is power, because they are more likely to live it

Whether handing this power over to the governments of the world is worth saving or doing "X" is the debate. While people are very good at seeing whats right in front of them its a much more challenging skill to accurately envision how our actions today lead to the situations of tomorrow.
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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jds62f View Post
I think people who are a little more into computers see that

1. Creating a "key" that works for uncle sam also means it can work for thieves, beijing, whoever. Its a lot of power.
2. Machines and programs already exist to store and analyze massive loads of data, and they are getting better all the time
3. data leads to knowledge and knowledge is power, because they are more likely to live it

Whether handing this power over to the governments of the world is worth saving or doing "X" is the debate. While people are very good at seeing whats right in front of them its a much more challenging skill to accurately envision how our actions today lead to the situations of tomorrow.
100% agreed
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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-24-2016, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bueno View Post
While I have no issues with my government snooping (I have nothing to hide), ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessal View Post
So are you ok with the government coming over to your house and doing random searches? I mean after all...nothing to hide right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bueno View Post
Yeah, I was waiting for some over the top remark like that

Listen, if it bothers you, it bothers you but if it doesn't bother me, you shouldn't be bothered by it.
It's bothersome because you're lightly dismissing a very hard-won liberty, which devalues it over time as more people accept your position as a norm. I don't find Nessal's comment over the top. I frankly find yours under the bottom, and I'm ashamed for you, even though you apparently are not.
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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-25-2016, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Apple pushes back on iPhone order, says FBI is seeking ?dangerous power' | The Verge

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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-25-2016, 05:04 PM
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It's bothersome because you're lightly dismissing a very hard-won liberty, which devalues it over time as more people accept your position as a norm. I don't find Nessal's comment over the top. I frankly find yours under the bottom, and I'm ashamed for you, even though you apparently are not.
That's the great thing about our country that we can have a difference of opinion however unlike some I try not to have a negative view of the other person based simply on a difference of opinion.

We can both argue why we believe in what we believe in but what's the use, it's not like we're both going to change our minds on this topic on the forums.
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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-26-2016, 04:14 PM
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I'm glad to see Apple stand their ground against uncle sam. With how poor windows 10 is, and Bill Gates stance on this topic, I wish more people would support Apple, and boycott windows, of course that probably won't happen. There is no reason Apple should hand over the keys for this. It also shows how poor our government is if they truly cannot do anything about this. Aren't we supposed to be # 1, yet we cannot break the encryption of an Iphone? Please tell me that truly isn't the case here. I'm all for shutting down these religious zealots and their madness, but with all the information I'm sure they've gained, what could really be on that phone for them? Absolutely nothing, they are just trying to work the political system for further gain in the long run. If anything I say this makes the FBI look bad. Just like the way the played the media with Edward Snowden.

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