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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by UltimateLurker View Post
V8-swap a Miata? Are you serious?
yea, dont tell me you havent seen/heard of a miata with a v8 swap

Studies show 100% of people die. Might as well have some fun.

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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by UltimateLurker View Post
I think you're right, I'm not a Lotus person, but why on earth would I buy an EVO when I own an STi, for the bad build quality? V8-swap a Miata? Are you serious? I think I've talked myself out of the Elise until I can afford to have it as a 2nd car.

On a more serious note, why are all these $55,000 Elises' with less than 10K on the clock selling for $30K? Is the market flooded, or did the supercharged versions kill the N/A versions?
Nope, you're def not a Lotus person by all those statements you've made.

You have to appreciate a Lotus for what it is, not for all the creature comfort that it's lacking.
I'm surprised you forgot to mention how the car you drove didn't have a cup-holder!

The Elise isn't a souped up 4-door sedan,
nor is it meant to be a luxury sports car.
It was essentially designed from the ground up to be a street legal track-car, with performance first and foremost.
They aren't designed to be commuter cars with all the amenities of a car built around the drivers and passengers comforts.
So if you're going to complain about things like ingress/egress, it's clearly not the car for you. (I'm the same height with more weight, and have no issues getting in whatsoever)

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As for the prices, they're actually quite consistent and what you'd expect them to be at compared to similar high performance sports cars. they all drop a chunk of change the moment you drive them off the lot.

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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 01:18 PM
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refocusing the discussion just a tad... UltimateLurker was saying if he had to nit pick that those are things he didn't like.

Coming from a 2004 STi with many, many mods to the car I can understand a few of Lurkers nit picking cons. My STi is faster than my Elise, in terms of handling and in terms of power. The exhaust note on the STi is a very attractive exhaust note and has a very unique rumble to it. I also use to be into high revving Honda motors (K20 Type R with individual throttle bodies anyone?) so, I enjoy both a NA and Forced Inducted car.

I can understand where Lurker is coming from, he's trying to compare the Elise to his STi, and unfortunately it's hard to compare two cars that are in two totally different leagues. If anyone has ever watched Best Motoring I guess I can better explain it like this: One is a high revving light weight, mid engine, rear wheel drive, very balanced, well poised stripped out down hill touge monster.

The other is a catering to a few creature comforts, power steering, DCCD, all wheel drive, flat four boxer motor, turbo, four doors, up hill rally dominator.

One of the drivers Keiichi Tsuchiya (famous JGTC Driver) prefers light weight, high revving, well balanced rear wheel drive cars.

The other driver Orido seems to gravitate to heavier, balanced rear wheel drive, all wheel drive, turbo cars.

There's a lot of people that can be placed in either one or the other of these categories. I'm personally in both, I enjoy light weight high revving cars, but in the flipside I also enjoy big turbo AWD cars. The Elise and the STi have nearly nothing in common, and yet I yearned for another car like that. I love the exhaust note on the Elise, I love the uniqueness out of the car, and I also love my STi for it's uniqueness albeit a lot of people think it's ugly, but to quote Jeremy Clarkson "You, outside... NOW." cleverly describes the rawness and brawler likeness of the STi.

Now that I have put everyone to sleep, I have to say that the Elise is a fantastic car and I love it to death, and I've only owned the car for a couple of days now and I love the balance between power and the handling. I like the interior, but I didn't buy the car for the interior or the lack of space. I sought after a hardtop only, because I preferred the look of the hardtop versus the soft top. I'm 6'2" and 225lbs and I can get in and out of the car just fine, matter of fact I daily drive this car and do not regret it one bit.

/soapbox
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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by UltimateLurker View Post
On a more serious note, why are all these $55,000 Elises' with less than 10K on the clock selling for $30K? Is the market flooded, or did the supercharged versions kill the N/A versions?
I bought my 2005 elise brand new, no miles in July 2006 with full warranty for $39k the retail at the time was 42k - the 30k Elise you are seeing are most likely used 2005/6s. 55K is the retail for the Elise SC , you can get a new Elise non SC for 46K retail price - less after some negotiating. Also they raised the retail price in 2007 mainly due to the weak dollar vs the strong UK pound - 2 to 1 ratio. They over produced cars in 2005 bringing in 2000 units to a very small horribly supported US dealer network with no advertising. They cut that number to something like 700 units a year then this year even less. That 30k pricing will likely actually trend up eventually .....

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Last edited by delise; 09-30-2008 at 01:33 PM.
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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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First of all the reason many low mileage (less than 10k miles) cars are available is that the Elise is NOT an everyday driver, but rather a weekend or occasional driver for MANY (not all) owners.
I realize that, I was just stating that the depreciation seemed to be a bit much for such low-mileage, excellent condition examples.

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Not everyone is selling their NA Elise for the SC, as a Lotus Supercharge kit will be or is available for under $5k.
I didn't realize that, thanks for the info.

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Originally Posted by vincesf View Post
For those who can not live without a supercharger may find a much more attractive alternative than spending the $25k differential for a new SC.
When I owned my S2000 it really didn't bother me that the car didn't feel so strong down low, it made it that much more rewarding when I gave it some stick. However, after owning the STi, it may be hard to go back. In a recent thread someone mentioned having to really run the Elise to remind them why they purchased it in the first place, and getting in trouble with the law when doing so. I can totally see that happening to me.

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Lastly, an Elise in the $30k's is not terrible from a depreciation perspective, as I can provide you plenty of examples of cars that depreciated far greater as a percentage of their original price (which by in large was not $55k).
I sold cars for 4 years, so I know that the more expensive the car, the more depreciation it suffers within the first couple of years (as a general rule). I also figured most people paid more than $55K for their Elise, but I guess that's not the case.

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I paid $48k out the door for a new and well-equipped '06 with touring and sport packages, hardtop and starshield.
Sounds like you got a great deal .

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I DID NOT EVEN TEST-DRIVE THE CAR. I just flew down to So. Cal and drove it 400 miles to my house in one day.
Everything you said up to this point was reasonable, but paying $48K for a car you've never driven is about the most foolish thing you can do with your money (IMO), as vehicles are expenses, not investments, and a mistake could be quite costly. I guess you're just that rich .

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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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yea, dont tell me you havent seen/heard of a miata with a v8 swap
Oh I've heard of it, and also heard how it destroy's the handling, is right, what a Redneck thing to do, next you'll suggest an FD with an LS1-swap!

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You have to appreciate a Lotus for what it is, not for all the creature comfort that it's lacking.
I do, I just think it needs more adjustibility, as all people are not the same.

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I'm surprised you forgot to mention how the car you drove didn't have a cup-holder!
This one hurt my feelings. Dude, I care not for cup-holders!

PhantomSTi: Well said!

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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 03:12 PM
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Everything you said up to this point was reasonable, but paying $48K for a car you've never driven is about the most foolish thing you can do with your money (IMO), as vehicles are expenses, not investments, and a mistake could be quite costly. I guess you're just that rich .[/QUOTE]

Actually, I am far more "car crazy" than rich, and I am sure someone would make a fortune if they came up with the equivalent of AA for Car Junkie's. Fortunately, the Elise provided me with the "fix" I needed at the time.
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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 03:26 PM
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Check back with the dealer in another 2 years.
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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by serpent View Post
yea, dont tell me you havent seen/heard of a miata with a v8 swap

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateLurker View Post
Oh I've heard of it, and also heard how it destroy's the handling, is right, what a Redneck thing to do, next you'll suggest an FD with an LS1-swap! ...
paging Onefastlotus...

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f94/...-here-yet-584/
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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 03:45 PM Thread Starter
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Actually, I am far more "car crazy" than rich, and I am sure someone would make a fortune if they came up with the equivalent of AA for Car Junkie's. Fortunately, the Elise provided me with the "fix" I needed at the time.
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This is good to hear .

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Check back with the dealer in another 2 years.
Haha, maybe. I wish this thread had gone another way, I was really almost converted by that drive, and just thought I'd be honest about the things I had issues with, but it appears that sometimes, honesty isn't the best policy.

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post #31 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 03:56 PM
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I'm fairly certain this thread is going exactly how you want it to. We are not going to convince you that you need to own a Lotus, because the input and responses you give make you seem like the person who should not own one. Most of us will tell you to move along...and it seems that's what you want to hear.

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post #32 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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I'm fairly certain this thread is going exactly how you want it to. We are not going to convince you that you need to own a Lotus, because the input and responses you give make you seem like the person who should not own one. Most of us will tell you to move along...and it seems that's what you want to hear.
It's true, no one can convince me of anything because no one knows what's best for me except me, though I do appreciate responses like "yeah, I used to feel that way too, but after I owned the car a while...".

My responses don't make me "the person who should not own one", just the person "less likely to own one as a DD over what he already has". There is no question in my mind that keeping the STi is the right thing to do, the numbers don't lie, but there's just something about the Elise that won't let me go, something that doesn't care about numbers, or "right" things to do.

I dunno', maybe I'm imagining it. At any rate, I didn't mean to give another negative review, or tick anyone off, I really had a much better experience with this 2nd drive, but I don't think it was enough to convince me to make it my dd.

Thanks for all the responses, good and bad .

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post #33 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 05:18 PM
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UL, I'd recommend that you keep your STi but look forward to getting a used Elise as a 2nd car(or n-th car as the case may be).

From your past visits and posts here, I'm convinced you like the Elise enough but perhaps not enough as the 'only' performance car in your garage. That is understandable.

The 2005/2006 Elise's are going to be as pure a Lotus as you are going to get for that price. All following models are going to be more expensive and probably include luxury bits and pieces that most of us don't care for.

What I'm trying to say is this - get the Elise for what it is today and live to enjoy it for the same reason.
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post #34 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 05:33 PM
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You know how I know you're a 'Vette driver?

From another STi owner:
Quote:
- I don't like the seat, or its lack of adjustment
- I don't like the steering wheel, or its lack of adjustment
- I don't like the cold, amusement-park-ride feel of the interior
- I don't like the *seemingly* cheap fit/finish
- I don't like the soft-top
- I don't like ingress/egress with the top on
- I don't like the sound at idle
- I don't like the price
-Seats are very personal, in my opinion. I like the Elise's seat - stock for stock, it beats the STi seats for sure! Could it be better? Yup!
-I like the little steering wheel, though it could use at least tilt.
-I think the interior is kind of nice, actually - very stark, very businesslike. I hate the fake aluminum of the STi's interior and wish it were real, like most of the Elise's.
-Eh, my STi rattles like nobody's business. The Elise is more solid. Of course, the STi has seven times the milage...
-The car is made for driving with the top off!
-It sucks indeed, but that's the price you pay for sitting so low to the ground, I suppose.
-It's an inline four... whaddya want?
-The price is high because it's worth it. Look at how many more idiots are appearing on NASIOC now that WRXs are pushing $10k. Keep the price high to minimize the number of idiots buying the Elise!

I'm very glad that I bought my Elise, but I am also glad that I didn't get rid of the STi, too. It's great having both in my garage, and I'd be torn to get rid of either of them.

Last edited by Mr. Know; 09-30-2008 at 05:40 PM. Reason: quoted deleted post
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post #35 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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6-speed: Thanks for your input .

Fox: The only Corvette I'd ever own would be a 1967 Conv., make mine a 4-speed 327 .

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post #36 of 38 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 08:55 PM
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Great photos! Really like the one of Charlie Brown (and naturally the best one has your daughter in it )

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateLurker View Post
When I owned my S2000 it really didn't bother me that the car didn't feel so strong down low, it made it that much more rewarding when I gave it some stick. However, after owning the STi, it may be hard to go back. In a recent thread someone mentioned having to really run the Elise to remind them why they purchased it in the first place, and getting in trouble with the law when doing so. I can totally see that happening to me.
I don't find this the case - I bought the Elise because of the sublime handling which is ovbious at all speeds. In fact one great thing about the Elise is that it is enjoyable at legal speeds and even on my daily commute I get pleasure out of the drive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateLurker View Post
Everything you said up to this point was reasonable, but paying $48K for a car you've never driven is about the most foolish thing you can do with your money (IMO), as vehicles are expenses, not investments, and a mistake could be quite costly.
I understand his viewpoint! I came very close to buying my Elise without a test drive - I paid a deposit on it without seeing it and based on only two crappy camera phone pics (which didn't even identify the model) and the VIN - it was a second hand car and more than $48k!. I knew I wanted it though, I'd test driven an S1 6yrs earlier and read a LOT about it. In the end I was able to see and drive it before having it shipped (it was on the other side of the country 4hrs flying time away).

As you have said - only you can decide if it is suitable as a daily driver for you - all the best in making your decision
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post #37 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-01-2008, 07:23 AM
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Fox: The only Corvette I'd ever own would be a 1967 Conv., make mine a 4-speed 327 .
I'm sorry; I was aiming that at IXLR8 - his post was just too long to quote. I guess he deleted all of his posts?
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post #38 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-01-2008, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by UltimateLurker View Post
- I don't like the seat, or its lack of adjustment
- I don't like the steering wheel, or its lack of adjustment
- I don't like the cold, amusement-park-ride feel of the interior
- I don't like the *seemingly* cheap fit/finish
- I don't like the soft-top
- I don't like ingress/egress with the top on
- I don't like the sound at idle
- I don't like the price
- ... (I don't have any strong feelings about the seat one way or another)
- Do you like the steering feel? I personally really like the steering wheel.
- It is a minimalist interior, minimalism=light weight
- It is hand-built... and british
- Don't like the soft-top, take it off... the top is supposed to be in the trunk, it's there in case it starts raining. If you want a top get a hard-top, looks better imo. (I hear AG Hardtops are hard to come by)
- I didn't have a problem with ingress and egress. Well it was a bit intimidating the first time, but it really isn't a big deal if you know the proper technique.
- I like the way it sounds. (High RPMs do sound better than idle though). I do like 4-cylinders though.
-2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STi - $34,995
2008 Lotus Elise - $46,270
not really that much more to pay for a hand-built, rare car that isn't developed by a large car manufacturer.

Then again I don't really know anything, I don't own one...
I do read a lot of car magazines (on the toilet) though, and the Lotus is praised for it's steering feel and fun factor over pretty much every other car.
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