Advice to new Elise owners - Page 6 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 6Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #101 of 156 (permalink) Old 06-26-2007, 04:11 AM
Registered User
 
Blue Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Crownsville, MD
Posts: 685
Did you check it out yet DavidB? I love your Camaro's. I have a 98 SS with alot of mods just blew the 7.5 rearend out of it 2 weekends ago. Put 4.10's in it and with the autocross slicks and the torque something had to let go. You will love the Elise as long as your flexable and understand how honored you are to be able to enjoy and own a piece of British automotive history.

Cheers
2005 MB, Red interior, sport/tour packs, stage 2 exhaust
Blue Devil is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #102 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-05-2007, 04:58 PM
Registered User
 
davidb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Devil
Did you check it out yet DavidB? I love your Camaro's. I have a 98 SS with alot of mods just blew the 7.5 rearend out of it 2 weekends ago. Put 4.10's in it and with the autocross slicks and the torque something had to let go. You will love the Elise as long as your flexable and understand how honored you are to be able to enjoy and own a piece of British automotive history.
No, but we are planning a trip to St. Louis on the 13-15th for a long weekend. We'll check out the Elise, see an old friend and celebrate our 23rd wedding anniversary. Fortunately for me, my wife is as enthusiastic about the Elise as I am. We'll see how it goes.
Regarding the Camaros, thanks. I just pulled the engine on my '69 and have it stripped down to the bare block. I will probably get it to the machine shop next week. I'm looking at a 383 stroker that will make 517 lb/ft of torque (that never falls below 400lb/ft after 3000rrpm) and around 507 horsepower. AFR and Comp Cams have the recipes on their websites, and I found two magazines that have built and tested the combinations. All this with just 9.5:1compression. The 4th gen Camaros are great performers. We had a 97SS 6-speed that we really loved.

Oh and BTW DINK status IS great!

David
Lee's Summit, Missouri
2001 Honda Accord (Wife's daily workhorse)
2006 Honda Ridgline (It is NOT ugly! damnit.)
1968 Camaro SS-396 convertible
1969 Camaro vintage trans-am replica.
1999 KTM 200 EXC

Last edited by davidb; 07-05-2007 at 05:06 PM.
davidb is offline  
post #103 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-05-2007, 06:38 PM
Registered User
 
gregorio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidb
No, but we are planning a trip to St. Louis on the 13-15th for a long weekend. We'll check out the Elise, see an old friend and celebrate our 23rd wedding anniversary. Fortunately for me, my wife is as enthusiastic about the Elise as I am. We'll see how it goes.
Regarding the Camaros, thanks. I just pulled the engine on my '69 and have it stripped down to the bare block. I will probably get it to the machine shop next week. I'm looking at a 383 stroker that will make 517 lb/ft of torque (that never falls below 400lb/ft after 3000rrpm) and around 507 horsepower. AFR and Comp Cams have the recipes on their websites, and I found two magazines that have built and tested the combinations. All this with just 9.5:1compression. The 4th gen Camaros are great performers. We had a 97SS 6-speed that we really loved.

Oh and BTW DINK status IS great!

David
Lee's Summit, Missouri
2001 Honda Accord (Wife's daily workhorse)
2006 Honda Ridgline (It is NOT ugly! damnit.)
1968 Camaro SS-396 convertible
1969 Camaro vintage trans-am replica.
1999 KTM 200 EXC

DavidB,

IMHO there is nothing significantly different with the 2007 (besides the $) compared with the 2006 Elise. That is why I bought a 2006. If you are coming to St Louis, give me a shout and we'll go for a drive. I am near downtown. I was at Midrivers Lotus today for the state safety inspection. The service guys seem very strightforward to me.

Greg

_________________________________

2006 Chili Red Elise, hardtop, touring, starshield; multivex mirrors, lidbone, bootie, Dabears2k HIDs, 'green wire' mod.
gregorio is offline  
 
post #104 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 04:20 PM
Registered User
 
davidb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
Thanks for the info. Greg. If Midriver's web site is up to date, they have 4 or 5 new 2006's in stock AND 1 used, but I don't remember if it's 2005 or 2006.

It freaks me out to see how many low mile Elise's are out there. It made me wonder what was wrong with them....Midriver's used one is advertised as only having 1525 miles on it. Maybe it was a demo.

Thanks for the offer, but I think we might be too busy. There's a list of things my wife wants to do and I don't know that we'll have the time.

David
Lee's Summit, Missouri
2001 Honda Accord (Wife's daily workhorse)
2006 Honda Ridgline (My daily workhorse and KTM hauler)
1968 Camaro SS-396 convertible
1969 Camaro vintage trans-am replica
1999 KTM 200 EXC

Last edited by davidb; 07-19-2007 at 03:51 PM.
davidb is offline  
post #105 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-08-2007, 09:35 AM
Registered User
 
davidb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
You'll hate me for this, but my wife and I test drove the BMW Z4 3.0Si roadster and coupe yesterday and were very impressed. We have already ruled out the Corvette, the Boxter and the S2000. We hadn't driven the BMW yet an thought it'd be a good idea before we saw the Lotus. This next purchase needs to be a car that both my wife and I can enjoy, and with all that I'm reading, there's a chance the Lotus might not be right for both of us. My wife is a great driver, and drives manuals like a pro, but she's 5'-1 and I don't know that she'll enjoy having to strong arm the car the way you describe it. I'm still a bit nervous about reliability too, and with the dealer so far away, that's another negative. With all that said, I might come back next week and have forgotten all about the BMW. We'll see.

David
Lee's Summit, Missouri
2001 Honda Accord (Wife's daily workhorse)
2006 Honda Ridgline (My daily workhorse and KTM hauler)
1968 Camaro SS-396 convertible
1969 Camaro vintage trans-am replica
1999 KTM 200 EXC
davidb is offline  
post #106 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-08-2007, 04:46 PM
Registered User
 
TimMullen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 12,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidb
I don't know that she'll enjoy having to strong arm the car the way you describe it.
Strong arm? The steering on the Elise is very light. No power steering, but you don't need it at all. If you get the LSS, it may be a bit more difficult at very low speeds due to the wider front tires, but still no big deal. I don't understand where the concept of "hard to steer" because it doesn't have power steering comes from.

There are lots of other reasons that an Elise may not be the right car for someone, but needing to be "strong armed" shouldn't be one of them...




Tim Mullen --- There is no such thing as Touring suspension or Touring wheels.

I love being married. It's so great to find that one person that you want to annoy for the rest of your life. - Rita Rudner


Chantilly, VA http://members.cox.net/elans4/
05 Lotus Elise - Chrome Orange - No Touring - No LSS - No Hardtop - Lotus Driving Lights - Lotus "Chin Guards" - plain and simple.
94 Miata R Package - Black
72 Lotus Elan Sprint - Colorado Orange/Cirrus White
TimMullen is offline  
post #107 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-08-2007, 04:52 PM
Registered User
 
davidb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimMullen
Strong arm? The steering on the Elise is very light. No power steering, but you don't need it at all. If you get the LSS, it may be a bit more difficult at very low speeds due to the wider front tires, but still no big deal. I don't understand where the concept of "hard to steer" because it doesn't have power steering comes from.

There are lots of other reasons that an Elise may not be the right car for someone, but needing to be "strong armed" shouldn't be one of them...
Thanks for clearing that up Tim.
It's tough to get a good feel for the car just by reading about it. I need to get out there and drive one so I can form my own opinion.

David
Lee's Summit, Missouri
2001 Honda Accord (Wife's daily workhorse)
2006 Honda Ridgline (My daily workhorse and KTM hauler)
1968 Camaro SS-396 convertible
1969 Camaro vintage trans-am replica
1999 KTM 200 EXC

Last edited by davidb; 07-19-2007 at 03:58 PM.
davidb is offline  
post #108 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-08-2007, 05:27 PM
xtn
Registered User
 
xtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,981
The seat does not have power lift. A 5'-1" wife may need a thin pillow.

xtn

2006 McLareghini Bugatterrari, Storm Titanium... installed: air horn, Scroth 4-point ASM harnesses, Sector111 halon extinguisher and mounting bracket, Von Hep exhaust and rear panel delete, Pagid brake pads, red Volks CE28n wheels, Toyo RA-1 tires, Nitron SA coilovers, Sector111 (WorksBell) quick-disconnect steering wheel kit. awaiting installation: Scroth "pull-up" lap belts, Sector111 RTD Brace, Tony's heater bypass mod, and dropped steering rack mounting plates.
xtn is offline  
post #109 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-16-2007, 04:13 PM
Registered User
 
davidb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
My wife and I drove out to Mid-Rivers Lotus on Friday (the 13th) Nothing bad happened.... Anyway, I understand why you're all so in love with the Lotus. We were both taken out separately for a ride and drive, and a very thorough one indeed. All I can say about the handling, braking, and acceleration is WOW! We went through a posted 30MPH S-curve at around 80 or so. With me driving it was a bit less eventful, but very fun. It was the most un-natural feeling, cornering at such high speeds knowing I couldn't change my mind and touch the brakes. My wife was nervous about driving it, but did and was glad. She had no problems with visibility and enjoyed it very much.
With all that said, we are still in a dilemma, as we don't have a local dealer, we don't "race" and we're afraid that with the fact that we can't really enjoy the car anywhere near it's limits and that when the "new" wears off, we'll somehow regret the purchase. Nobody's getting in or out of that car without the doors WIDE open either. We feel like the casual driving would end up being kept to a minimum.
We can easily make a case for buying a BMW Z4 S instead, but after we list all the reasons why, we still can't get over how much we like the Lotus. It's way more unique. It's the closest thing to a street legal race car as you can get......especially at this price, and we like the way it looks. We are both officially in gridlock. It would be much easier if we had a local dealer, just in case we had any problems and I can't even say for sure whether that'd be enough.
I can honestly say I've never been so confused over any automotive purchase.

David
Lee's Summit, Missouri
2001 Honda Accord (Wife's daily workhorse)
2006 Honda Ridgline (My daily workhorse and KTM hauler)
1968 Camaro SS-396 convertible
1969 Camaro vintage trans-am replica
1999 KTM 200 EXC
davidb is offline  
post #110 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-16-2007, 04:33 PM
Registered User
 
espritv8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: south jersey
Posts: 542
davidb

just go for it. a photographer friend has a z4, and was very impressed by the Lotus and held it in higher regard.

looks like you have a decent daily driver inventory, so the occassional usage on the Lotus should not be a problem. the rate-on-return of the grin factor is soo worth the investment. and the dealer distant is something that can be worked out, and will be worth any inconvenience.

as a brother in law said to me a month before we ordered, just get the Lotus.
(in reference to getting a special driver, not the choice of car that is)

same advice to you then, just get the Lotus.

drive safe,
t. a.

chief kingpin of the S.B.A., Starlight Black Authority

Starlight Black, hardtop & starshield. delivered on 1.11.05
driven by design. ok, and lotus
www.ta-design.com
espritv8 is offline  
post #111 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-16-2007, 04:40 PM
glb
Registered User
 
glb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chester, NJ
Posts: 11,136
espritv8 is spot on here.

Z4s are v nice, but quite common (here anyway); 1/2 are driven by (gasp) women.

There is nothing quite like the Lotus. It will make you want to drive it all the time...and it's already begun to work on you.

I drive mine every day, unless it's snowing. It's my fav car of all time.

Good luck whatever you decide.

05 elise (BOE Rev300 supercharged, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS. Past '72 Elan Sprint (I restored), Lotus 7 w/X-flow, TT Supra, Bugeye Sprite, BMW 2002 & 2002tii, '65 GTO.

Driving Tips-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...art-1-a-49665/
Moss Emergency Line-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...cy-line-36631/
Bleeding Brakes- https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...-brakes-241138
glb is online now  
post #112 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-17-2007, 04:40 PM
Registered User
 
davidb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I can't stop thinking about the decision. My wife and I talk about it allot and every time we completely tear down the Elise and why we should go with the Bimmer, we still can't shake the feeling of wanting the Lotus. I found a review on Edmunds.com with a nice video. The thing that grabbed me was when they said the Elise was 500 lbs lighter than the MX5 Miata and 1,000 lbs (A full half ton) lighter than the pontiac solstice/saturn sky!!! DAMN!
Anyway, I think we might go back and check out the BMW's again just to see how we feel. The Lotus dealer has the disadvantage of being 3-1/2 hours away, so it's a major deal to get another look/impression of them......like I really need it.
The latest idea, and I ran this past my wife tonight, was if we get the BMW, how about we spend the extra dough and get the M!?! It goes up to 330 hp, that should make me feel a little better about passing on the Lotus......Shouldn't it??? I don't know, we'll see.
For God sakes, I'm of British heritage (okay, half British, half Hungarian, but still!)........I'm drawn to the Lotus. I can see myself gaudily draped in green and gold, kind of like Joey on friends with the Porsche stuff. I'm not a BMW driving, tennis at the club playing, tickets to the Opera kind of guy!

Thanks for all your patience, encouragement and input. I'll let you know what happens, no matter what. Like every car dilemma I end up with, I tell myself "this is a good problem to have."

David
Lee's Summit, Missouri
2001 Honda Accord (Wife's daily workhorse)
2006 Honda Ridgline (My daily workhorse and KTM hauler)
1968 Camaro SS-396 convertible
1969 Camaro vintage trans-am replica
1999 KTM 200 EXC
davidb is offline  
post #113 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 11:53 AM
glb
Registered User
 
glb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chester, NJ
Posts: 11,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidb
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I can't stop thinking about the decision. My wife and I talk about it allot and every time we completely tear down the Elise and why we should go with the Bimmer, we still can't shake the feeling of wanting the Lotus. I found a review on Edmunds.com with a nice video. The thing that grabbed me was when they said the Elise was 500 lbs lighter than the MX5 Miata and 1,000 lbs (A full half ton) lighter than the pontiac solstice/saturn sky!!! DAMN!
Anyway, I think we might go back and check out the BMW's again just to see how we feel. The Lotus dealer has the disadvantage of being 3-1/2 hours away, so it's a major deal to get another look/impression of them......like I really need it.
The latest idea, and I ran this past my wife tonight, was if we get the BMW, how about we spend the extra dough and get the M!?! It goes up to 330 hp, that should make me feel a little better about passing on the Lotus......Shouldn't it??? I don't know, we'll see.
For God sakes, I'm of British heritage (okay, half British, half Hungarian, but still!)........I'm drawn to the Lotus. I can see myself gaudily draped in green and gold, kind of like Joey on friends with the Porsche stuff. I'm not a BMW driving, tennis at the club playing, tickets to the Opera kind of guy!

Thanks for all your patience, encouragement and input. I'll let you know what happens, no matter what. Like every car dilemma I end up with, I tell myself "this is a good problem to have."
You are telling us and yrslf that you want the Elise. There really is no substitute (Sorry, Porsche, that was your ad line I think).

Try this technique: Envision yourself 3 months from now. You walk out of the house & see your BMW. Will you be thinking, "I should have got the Lotus"?

I'm betting you will, but it's your perception that counts.

A friend was deciding between Audi A4 wagon and VW; v similar cars. I said, after listening on/off for a few days, "Every time you look at your VW, you're going to think 'I should have bought the Audi'. You'll be unhappy, esp every time you're in the VW and see an Audi."

He bought/loves the Audi.

There is no substitute for light weight, direct non-power steering, etc. When above friend drives my Elise, he also loves it and tells me how exotic it feels.
(He has a '71 Elan he's selling.)

Last, the Elise will always feel more exciting than the BMW, even just tooling around at low speeds.

Have I ever lied to you?

05 elise (BOE Rev300 supercharged, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS. Past '72 Elan Sprint (I restored), Lotus 7 w/X-flow, TT Supra, Bugeye Sprite, BMW 2002 & 2002tii, '65 GTO.

Driving Tips-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...art-1-a-49665/
Moss Emergency Line-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...cy-line-36631/
Bleeding Brakes- https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...-brakes-241138
glb is online now  
post #114 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 03:25 PM
Registered User
 
davidb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by glb
Have I ever lied to you?
As a matter of fact.......I don't think you have!

David
Lee's Summit, Missouri
2001 Honda Accord (Wife's daily workhorse)
2006 Honda Ridgline (My daily workhorse and KTM hauler)
1968 Camaro SS-396 convertible
1969 Camaro vintage trans-am replica
1999 KTM 200 EXC
davidb is offline  
post #115 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 05:48 PM
glb
Registered User
 
glb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chester, NJ
Posts: 11,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidb
As a matter of fact.......I don't think you have!


give me time...

05 elise (BOE Rev300 supercharged, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS. Past '72 Elan Sprint (I restored), Lotus 7 w/X-flow, TT Supra, Bugeye Sprite, BMW 2002 & 2002tii, '65 GTO.

Driving Tips-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...art-1-a-49665/
Moss Emergency Line-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...cy-line-36631/
Bleeding Brakes- https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...-brakes-241138
glb is online now  
post #116 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 06:06 PM
Registered User
 
gregorio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidb
As a matter of fact.......I don't think you have!
Davidb, feel free to take mine for a spin if you plan on being in the STL area anytime.

_________________________________

2006 Chili Red Elise, hardtop, touring, starshield; multivex mirrors, lidbone, bootie, Dabears2k HIDs, 'green wire' mod.
gregorio is offline  
post #117 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-20-2007, 11:45 PM
Registered User
 
Trendy Exige's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 719
DavidB,

If you and your wife are still physically able to getting in and out of the Lotus Elise without any discomfort, I say get the Lotus Elise now before you get any older. The Z4 and all the other German thoroughbreds will still be around while your body aches from aging gracefully in your hot flashy Lotus Elise. Make sure you get the hard top convertible. Summer is now, its time for the roofs to come off.

It's too bad my roof cannot be removed. For me, air conditioning it is! lol

-andy
Trendy Exige is offline  
post #118 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-21-2007, 02:17 AM
Registered User
 
GaryD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 511
Another thought - if you are on the fence about this and worried you might sell the car after say a year of ownership and go into a BMW or similar - why not buy a second hand car that has already taken the depreciation? There are a fair number of people on this forum who only drive the cars on weekends and only when the sun shines (unlike me - 44k so far and use it every day) so purchasing an 05 with less than 10k on it for somewhere in the mid 30s can be a great deal. The cars are generally treasured by their owners and in as new condition. The sellers are often getting out of the Elise for an Exige or sometimes have found they perhaps would prefer more amenities (Boxter or the like). The warrantee is 36,000 miles or 3 years (not sure about the years - someone will correct me if I am wrong) so if you are nervous about that an 06 might be a better bet. But picking up an already depreciated low mileage car from someone here makes a lot of sense.... and you probably could plan a road trip bringing it home

............ Gary

(and with some of the saved money you can do some mods - like add HID low beams, multivex mirrors and a cup holder! - although another advantage, some of them will probably be done by the previous owner!)
GaryD is offline  
post #119 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-21-2007, 07:16 AM
Registered User
 
davidb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio
Davidb, feel free to take mine for a spin if you plan on being in the STL area anytime.
I might take you up on that. I'm heading to St. Louis again on July 27th for the Super Car Reunion at Gateway. http://www.yenko.net/reunion/2007reunion.htm and will be leaving sometime Saturday. I'll PM you next week when I know for sure.
If we still haven't decided it would be great to at least be able to see your's in person and get a ride in it. I don't like going to the dealership the second time unless I'm pretty sure I'm buying. They get all weird on you sometimes.

Again thanks to everybody for your input. My wife and I have talked about looking for a used one, but there aren't any around here. It would be fun to buy one out of state and get a long drive home in it. My wife and I are kind of picky about the condition though. The used one at Lotus had a few rough spots on it and my wife saw alot more flaws than I did. She made the comment that if we're spending this kind of money, I'd rather be the one roughing it up, not have it already done for me. (God love her).

David
Lee's Summit, Missouri
2001 Honda Accord (Wife's daily workhorse)
2006 Honda Ridgline (My daily workhorse and KTM hauler)
1968 Camaro SS-396 convertible
1969 Camaro vintage trans-am replica
1999 KTM 200 EXC
davidb is offline  
post #120 of 156 (permalink) Old 07-21-2007, 07:40 AM
Registered User
 
jkolb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 377
I have an Audi S4, as well as an Exige S. Drove the Lotus exclusively for a few weeks and just got back in the S4 - it acted like a Buick Regal! Not really, the acceleration was still there, the great brakes, and I know how well it corners, but the difference between the Lotus and the S4 was like night and day. The Lotus connects you with the driving experience in a way that no other car that you can drive on the road can. Driving the S4 is like driving with a bunch of filters between me and the road. No question that the S4 is a magnificent piece of engineering, but much of that engineering is heavy and isolates the driver from INSTANT feedback. Everything I said about the the S4 goes for the Porsche Cayman as well. With Porsche I think you need to go to the GT3 in the current lineup, or back to the early, light weight race cars based on the 911 to get the same feeling. The closest analogy that I can draw is that the Lotus is a high performance motorcycle that you wear.

I'm in my early 60's and my wife has almost crossed that threshold. We both thoroughly enjoy the Lotus and are looking forward to driving it to Aspen later this summer (1100 miles). Only challenge is that we have to FedEx our clothes! Fun!

Jerry

2007 Laser Blue Exige S
1965 Elan (26r clone) vintage race car
2010 Audi S4
2003 Suburban
jkolb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > New car information, Specs, Demos, Price.

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome