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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-23-2006, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Limited Slip Opinions

I am in the process of deciding between 2 Elises that are available in the color I want to buy. I plan on making the purchase next week, and I am hoping your input can help with the decision.
I read an article that said that limited slip differential creates understeer for the Elise and is better left off. I want traction control, but the two Elises that are available for me to purchase now in the color I want either have the limited slip with traction or no traction control at all. Which would you say is the better way to go and why?
By the way, I don't autocross.

TIA
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-23-2006, 07:37 PM
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If you do a search you'll find about a month's worth of reading on the subject.
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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-23-2006, 07:41 PM
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NONE! If you want to feel what Lotus originally intended, get it without.. If you feel you are having difficulty cornering/coming out of corners, you can always add it later.

Just my $0.02.

07 Exige S 265: GG, Track Pack, V1, RV Camera, S111 CF roof and splitter, 4.5-lb Voltphreaks battery, 10-lb Von Hep Exhaust, Green filter, 265 crank hp +/-, Volk TE 37 Wheels, RTDbrace, Scroth 6-point ASM harnesses, Innovative Motor Mounts, Saiku Michi Catch Cans. To come: IC fans, headers, and sport cat. 1955 lbs total weight (est w/tank half full)
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-23-2006, 08:22 PM
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My $.02/FWIW/YMMV, get one equipped with limited slip from the factory, with warranty.

If you choose to go open-diff and install later if you need it, keep in mind that it is not an easy proposition to find someone you're comfortable with to essentially rebuild your transaxle to put in a LSD unit, set all the clearances properly, and reassemble. Oh, and make sure it's re-assembled with the proper Lotus spec 6th gear if you want to avoid grief from SCCA types and warranty nazis.

Have LSD on mine and the car's nice and predictable. Much fun on rain-soaked surfaces as well -- did Texas World Speedway in the rain, with traction control either engaged or defeated and the instructor riding with me was impressed with the car's predictability vs. other non-LSD cars he'd ridden in. Had an open-diff MR2T '95 - '01 and it was really frustrating trying to put the power down in tight auto-x corners. If you're thinking of any power adders, the want becomes a need for an LSD-equipped setup.
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 04:02 AM
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I like mine, no regrets. But yeah, search and you'll find many threads on the subject. There is a lot of talk, but those who have them like them, with rare or no exceptions.

Francis
2006 Chrome Orange Elise: LSD/TC, Nitron SAs with 425/650 springs, BWR 7/8" ("Hardcore") Front Bar, Eliseparts bumpsteer kit, VF Stage 2, 2bular Header + Sport Cat + 8x24 GT3 Muffler, ECU Tune by Jermaine, Smaay's fuel rail, ACT XT clutch, Saikou Michi dual catch can, Moroso pan, Manly's mount inserts & FF Engine Damper
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 04:40 AM
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Between getting a car with traction control and without, get the car with.

Between getting a car with LSD and without, get the car without UNLESS you will be competitively autocrossing or you think that you might go with forced induction down the road AND will be autocrossing or tracking the car.

Between your choices... get the car with traction control and LSD.

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance."
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 06:16 AM Thread Starter
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LSD With vs. None

Thanks RichS.
That's exactly what I'm wondering.
I figured it's better to have one with both LSD and traction control than one without traction control at all. I know I'll be paying for LSD which I have little use for, but I figure it's better to have the traction control than none at all.
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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stantaur
My $.02/FWIW/YMMV, get one equipped with limited slip from the factory, with warranty.

If you choose to go open-diff and install later if you need it, keep in mind that it is not an easy proposition to find someone you're comfortable with to essentially rebuild your transaxle to put in a LSD unit, set all the clearances properly, and reassemble. Oh, and make sure it's re-assembled with the proper Lotus spec 6th gear if you want to avoid grief from SCCA types and warranty nazis.
My dealer will install the LSD and it is not just the LSD, it is a new entire transmission with the LSD inside.

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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 03:50 PM
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I posted the same thread after reading all the thoughts concerning LSD too. I chose to go with it. I don't regret it...I can't do burn outs but I'd rather be safe. For me it's perfect. Forget all the other "drive it the way it was intended" crap. Get LSD!

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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 03:54 PM
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The LSD install is challenging:

http://209.59.172.12/forums/showthre...d+installation

Francis
2006 Chrome Orange Elise: LSD/TC, Nitron SAs with 425/650 springs, BWR 7/8" ("Hardcore") Front Bar, Eliseparts bumpsteer kit, VF Stage 2, 2bular Header + Sport Cat + 8x24 GT3 Muffler, ECU Tune by Jermaine, Smaay's fuel rail, ACT XT clutch, Saikou Michi dual catch can, Moroso pan, Manly's mount inserts & FF Engine Damper
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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 08:19 AM
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Not an elise owner (yet) but know a little bit about the LSD convo after considering an aftermarket kit for my 350z. Input that i've gotten from most people is that the trac control is annoying, just like on most other sports cars. Typically its the most beneficial in crappy weather, but how many of us are driving our babies then anyways? Plus sports cars wouldnt' go anywhere in those type of elements anyways, t.c. or not. An LSD shouldn't prevent you from doing burnouts (if you need to melt your $200 a piece tires lol), just the traction control will. I know you can turn it off with the switch of a button, but it would annoy me to have to do that everytime i started the car. Also, I'm not sure if you can get the LSD without the traction control, or if you can only get both together. I've had two dealers give me to different answers. If i could chose i'd go with the LSD, it will give you more bite on exit, which IMO is the funnest part of a corner anyways. Either way if you're on the fence I'd get it rather than want it later. There are maybe a handful of shops i'd trust in the whole country i'd trust to swap rear ends and deal with all the shimming, etc. If its not done perfectly you'll eat your rear end up in a hurry. Which i guess brings me to another question.....Couldn't you just swap pumpkins with another elise? They're all running the same gears so why not? I'm sure that would be much easier/less bucks if you wanted to switch.

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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 08:23 AM
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As another aside......does lotus have a patch that defaults the t.c. to the "off" position upon ignition? I know the Z's have a patch that makes you have to turn it "on" as opposed to turning it "off"

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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 10:42 AM
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I have the S, with more power than my previous Elise, and an glad I DON'T have the LSD!

Note: I don't auto-x.

07 Exige S 265: GG, Track Pack, V1, RV Camera, S111 CF roof and splitter, 4.5-lb Voltphreaks battery, 10-lb Von Hep Exhaust, Green filter, 265 crank hp +/-, Volk TE 37 Wheels, RTDbrace, Scroth 6-point ASM harnesses, Innovative Motor Mounts, Saiku Michi Catch Cans. To come: IC fans, headers, and sport cat. 1955 lbs total weight (est w/tank half full)
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Last edited by LBC111; 12-26-2006 at 10:42 AM. Reason: Add smile..
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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBC111
I have the S, with more power than my previous Elise, and an glad I DON'T have the LSD!

Note: I don't auto-x.
Why?

Isotope Green Elise SC "Izzy"
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(sold to a friend)
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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 12:00 PM
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I have never liked traction controll in any of my cars, be it FWD or RWD. I do not need some computer determining what the car can/cannot do. I do not own a elise & I am not aware of how the TCS works. Brake modulation or throttle??

I do like LSD's because 1 tire burnouts suck!! Usually LSD's do/can cause understeer because the car is getting so much more traction in the back end. However I would think/hope that the LSD would also allow the car to be much easier to controll when you are experiencing oversteer?

Also, new spring/shocks should allow you to easily change the handling to what you want.
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post #16 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 12:37 PM
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More LSD opinions:

http://209.59.172.12/forums/showthre...t=limited+slip

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...dersteer+adams

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...66&postcount=9

I think the subject is more polarizing & inflammatory than religion or politics around here

Francis
2006 Chrome Orange Elise: LSD/TC, Nitron SAs with 425/650 springs, BWR 7/8" ("Hardcore") Front Bar, Eliseparts bumpsteer kit, VF Stage 2, 2bular Header + Sport Cat + 8x24 GT3 Muffler, ECU Tune by Jermaine, Smaay's fuel rail, ACT XT clutch, Saikou Michi dual catch can, Moroso pan, Manly's mount inserts & FF Engine Damper
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post #17 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugbyduck
Why?
(Why non-LSD?)

Because I don't need it! I have had ZERO problems cornering, powering out of corners, etc. I'm trying to stay within the Lotus philosophy of keep it light, keep it simple. I was warned that the Lotus gurus in Hethel never intended that this car have LSD, said it reduces a bit of the driver-input, but reluctantly offered it to satisfy demands in the US for auto-x usage. I've driven LSD, and it does take away some of the pure, raw handling ablilities of the non-LSD.

Here are my reasons to go non-LSD:

1) I don't auto-x
2) I drive aggressively at times and have had ZERO problems with loss-of-control in cornering/coming out of corners in 10,000 miles with the Elise, and almost 1000 in the S
3) I drive 99.9% of the time on dry, above freezing pavement
4) What very little wheel spin I have experienced at rare times I have been able to control without a significant loss of speed/control
5) Not a daily driver
6) I LOVE the raw-handling feel of the car, and do NOT want to change a thing at this point

07 Exige S 265: GG, Track Pack, V1, RV Camera, S111 CF roof and splitter, 4.5-lb Voltphreaks battery, 10-lb Von Hep Exhaust, Green filter, 265 crank hp +/-, Volk TE 37 Wheels, RTDbrace, Scroth 6-point ASM harnesses, Innovative Motor Mounts, Saiku Michi Catch Cans. To come: IC fans, headers, and sport cat. 1955 lbs total weight (est w/tank half full)
05 Elise: Storm Titanium, Sport, Touring, Stage II (SOLD) (May '05 - Sept '06)

Last edited by LBC111; 12-26-2006 at 01:49 PM.
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post #18 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-dculus
Not an Elise owner (yet) <...> Either way if you're on the fence I'd get it rather than want it later. <...> I'd trust to swap rear ends and deal with all the shimming, etc. If its not done perfectly you'll eat your rear end up in a hurry. <...> Which i guess brings me to another question.....Couldn't you just swap pumpkins with another Elise?
Unfortunately, your knowledge from the Z does not translate to the Elise.

First, there is no "pumpkin" in the Elise. The Elise uses a Celica FWD engine/transaxle in the middle of the Elise. The LSD is internal to the transaxle - to change it out, you must pretty much completely disassemble the entire transaxle to get to the differential - it's also reported that it's almost impossible to disassemble it without breaking one of the gear sets that would then need to be replaced.

Second, the Elise mid engine characteristics are very different than front engine/rear wheel drive characteristics of your Z. The effects of a LSD between the two does not necessarily translate directly. Many people feel that a LSD used with the light weight front of the Elise can increase under-steering tendencies. Lots of chassis tuning may eliminate this, but it will still change the handling characteristics of the Elise. Just because you can get the LSD now, does not mean that you may want one later - it all depends on how you are going to use your Elise. (This is coming from a person that has an LSD on every car I can, except the Elise).

Finally, just for the record, the Traction Control on the Elise is not "stability control". It will not help the handling, or make the car safer while cornering in bad weather. The only function of the TC is to prevent wheel spin - if you are starting off and the tires start to break loose, the TC will cut power via the ECU to prevent major wheel spin. TC can be added to the Elise at any time - I seem to remember that the kit is around $500 (plus installation) - it consists of a wiring harness, the switch, and a re-flash of the ECU to turn on the capability.




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post #19 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBC111
(Why non-LSD?)

Because I don't need it! I have had ZERO problems cornering, powering out of corners, etc. I'm trying to stay within the Lotus philosophy of keep it light, keep it simple. I was warned that the Lotus gurus in Hethel never intended that this car have LSD, said it reduces a bit of the driver-input, but reluctantly offered it to satisfy demands in the US for auto-x usage. I've driven LSD, and it does take away some of the pure, raw handling ablilities of the non-LSD.

Here are my reasons to go non-LSD:

1) I don't auto-x
2) I drive aggressively at times and have had ZERO problems with loss-of-control in cornering/coming out of corners in 10,000 miles with the Elise, and almost 1000 in the S
3) I drive 99.9% of the time on dry, above freezing pavement
4) What very little wheel spin I have experienced at rare times I have been able to control without a significant loss of speed/control
5) Not a daily driver
6) I LOVE the raw-handling feel of the car, and do NOT want to change a thing at this point
Have you driven an Elise or Exige with LSD? I only asked why because I was curious as to the reason...that is all. I decided for LSD for these reasons.

1) Read all the available threads concerning how LSD "takes away" from the driving experience and most people disagree.

2) Not being experienced in driving a mid-engined car, I opted for it due to my own safety concerns.

3) Really could not justify the additional expense later and if I really wanted it done right, it should be done from the get go.

4) I have NEVER experienced understeer in 3 track days even when pushing it to the limit. Thus I am inclined to feel I've made a wise decision. I don't feel the "push" some people says contributes to understeer.

5) I went away from conventional advice...which was "you don't need it unless you autocross". Never know what I might do!

I would love to have driven a car without for comparison. For all I know, I might like the non-LSD! Until then, I am happy with the decision and respect your decision to go without.

Isotope Green Elise SC "Izzy"
Krypton Green Elise ( R.I.P.)
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(sold to a friend)
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post #20 of 46 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 08:28 PM
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i think i can feel mine push. get in a parking lot and get on the gas and as the front lifts it feels like it pushes a little more, suddenly let off the gas or get on the brake and you can feel the nose drop, the back lifts outward and it turns in harder.... but it's been cool around here recently and i don't know if the tires were up to temps. LSS and LSD and TC. As well, i've almost spun it making a right turn with TC on in the rain. Don't know what happened there. TC seems most valuable as a money (tire) saver than anything else. I'm not sure how much safety it adds. Probably more safety to the torsen LSD since you'd hate to really spin the tire and then have it grab.
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