Price off for paying full in cash? - Page 4 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #61 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-11-2008, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ace10 View Post
yup. curt at ascot was shocked when i walked in with a rental car full of rolled quarters.
Do you own a laundromat or something? Why would you have so many rolls of quarters or were you just trying to annoy the dealer?

Sold the Lotus
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post #62 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-11-2008, 11:10 AM
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yup. curt at ascot was shocked when i walked in with a rental car full of rolled quarters. they had to call in the bookeeper to assist with counting it up. after a couple of hours i got bored and left to grab some lunch. when i got back all was good and i made the three hour drive back before dark.
A little quick math tells me this would have been 3,500 lbs!

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post #63 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 04:40 AM
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I work for an Audi, Porsche, VW, Land Rover, and Mercedes deal so I might be able to help a few subjects.

Credit checks do show employment which suggests income although it does not define it.

IE: if it says Doctor, we are probably ok with a porsche. If it says waiter...hmmm...let me show you this very fine VW. jk

we also dont accept real money over $2,500. Anything more and it has to be certified. The reasoning is minimizing risk. Who is responsible for the possibility of counterfeit tender. The bank if the funds are in the form of a certified check.

Dealers ALWAYS prefer that you finance and sometimes it makes sense for the customer too.
Once talked a buyer of a 125,000 S8 to finance the whole amount. His rate was under 5% and the investments he had were averaging better than that--so why pull th money out?

Big win for us on that loan and for him as well!

Dominick
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post #64 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 08:43 AM
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I paid for my elise in "cash", still had to do a credit check.
wtf? are you serious? thats kinna dumb!

to OP: 07 elises are heavily discounted, check with your local dealer, and as another member mentioned, not much more discounted if bought in cash

let us know how your puchase goes

good luck

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post #65 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominick22 View Post

Dealers ALWAYS prefer that you finance and sometimes it makes sense for the customer too.
Once talked a buyer of a 125,000 S8 to finance the whole amount. His rate was under 5% and the investments he had were averaging better than that--so why pull th money out?

Big win for us on that loan and for him as well!

Dominick
totally agree, and thats how i see things as well, id rather put the rest of the liquid money into something that will appreciate, rather than the car that just depreciates anyway
my APR for the lotus is 5% so no big deal

others cars are paid off

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post #66 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 08:59 AM
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totally agree, and thats how i see things as well, id rather put the rest of the liquid money into something that will appreciate, rather than the car that just depreciates anyway
my APR for the lotus is 5% so no big deal

others cars are paid off
I don't agree with this given the current state of the market. Plus, you have to take into account your tax bracket. Assume you are paying 30% income taxes and have a 5% loan. You need to make 6.5% on your investments to break even. And that is w/o any risk. I don't know of any investments that guarantee that. It is better to pay off the car and not finance in todays market.
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post #67 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominick22 View Post
I work for an Audi, Porsche, VW, Land Rover, and Mercedes deal so I might be able to help a few subjects.

Credit checks do show employment which suggests income although it does not define it.

IE: if it says Doctor, we are probably ok with a porsche. If it says waiter...hmmm...let me show you this very fine VW. jk
Dominic, I hope you would sell the Porsche to the waiter if he had cash or check in hand. If a dealer asked what I did for a living or how much I made, I would walk right out the door.

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Originally Posted by Dominick22 View Post
we also dont accept real money over $2,500. Anything more and it has to be certified. The reasoning is minimizing risk. Who is responsible for the possibility of counterfeit tender. The bank if the funds are in the form of a certified check.

Dealers ALWAYS prefer that you finance and sometimes it makes sense for the customer too.
Once talked a buyer of a 125,000 S8 to finance the whole amount. His rate was under 5% and the investments he had were averaging better than that--so why pull th money out?

Big win for us on that loan and for him as well!

Dominick
You mean, "Dealers ALWAYS prefer that you finance WITH THEM.." Otherwise, why in hell should a dealer care where your money came from???

I guess if you are literally walking in off the street, have no idea what you want to buy, have no idea what you can afford, etc., then you are are at the mercy of the dealer, who will ultimately decide what's in YOUR best interest.

But I guess I really don't quite get the point of this entire thread, "Price off for paying full in cash". Whether you arrange financing seperately (thru your own bank or otherwise) and walk in with a bank check, or write a personal check, or hand over bills, why would it make ANY difference to the dealer??

I can understand if the question is "Price off for paying cash versus having dealer finance for you".

Funny thing is, I WOULD EXPECT A DISCOUNT FOR AGREEING TO DEALER FINANCING, BECAUSE THE DEALER IS TYPICALLY MAKING SOME PROFIT ON THE FINANCING!

Bottom line, the easiest way to purchase a car from a dealer (from a BUYER perspective, not dealer perspective) is to have all your financing worked out ahead of time, and not inject ANY variables into the deal, including dealer financing, trade-ins, etc. Walk in, negotiate a deal, present cash, sign, drive off.

All my purchases were based on a little leg work on my part - including arranging my own financing ahead of time with my own bank. Then researching exactly what car and options I want to buy, knowing invoice price, dealer incentives, rebates, dealer holdback, ect., then calculating the price where the dealer makes zero $$ profit (which is NOT the invoice price!!!). All that stuff is VERY easy to do actually. Then I can determine what profit I would be willing to add to that base to pay the dealer for that car. Next is compiling a long list of dealers, and begin both calling in to the ones out of my area and walking into the ones near me to see who will bite on my price (for non-high-demand or non-exotic cars, best to try to talk to a fleet sales person). If I contact 30 dealers and not one is willing to accept my offer, then I might decide that I am a bit low, so I up it a 100 or 2 and then start calling again.

Every car I've purchased was done this way, and I've never paid anywhere NEAR sticker, and usually in the range of $300 plus or minus invoice (except for my first - learning lesson, and my last - the Lotus).

Cash vs financing NEVER even entered the picture.

07 Exige S 265: GG, Track Pack, V1, RV Camera, S111 CF roof and splitter, 4.5-lb Voltphreaks battery, 10-lb Von Hep Exhaust, Green filter, 265 crank hp +/-, Volk TE 37 Wheels, RTDbrace, Scroth 6-point ASM harnesses, Innovative Motor Mounts, Saiku Michi Catch Cans. To come: IC fans, headers, and sport cat. 1955 lbs total weight (est w/tank half full)
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post #68 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:38 AM
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With a name like "RidinDirty" I bet I know why he wants to pay in cash..

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post #69 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by LBC111 View Post

Bottom line, the easiest way to purchase a car from a dealer (from a BUYER perspective, not dealer perspective) is to have all your financing worked out ahead of time, and not inject ANY variables into the deal, including dealer financing, trade-ins, etc. Walk in, negotiate a deal, present cash, sign, drive off.
yes, agree with this as well

Quote:
I don't agree with this given the current state of the market. Plus, you have to take into account your tax bracket. Assume you are paying 30% income taxes and have a 5% loan. You need to make 6.5% on your investments to break even. And that is w/o any risk. I don't know of any investments that guarantee that. It is better to pay off the car and not finance in todays market.
car loans arent variable, they are fixed, there is NO pre-payment so you can add more to the monthly to lower your hit on the finance charges, my investments are in the minimum of a 100% profit, im in the business of what i am investing on, so yea no way in hell imma pay off a $70K car right out, i can use $50K of that and make it $100K in 6mo-year cmon now

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post #70 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 10:50 AM
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All my purchases were based on a little leg work on my part - including arranging my own financing ahead of time with my own bank. Then researching exactly what car and options I want to buy, knowing invoice price, dealer incentives, rebates, dealer holdback, ect., then calculating the price where the dealer makes zero $$ profit (which is NOT the invoice price!!!). All that stuff is VERY easy to do actually. Then I can determine what profit I would be willing to add to that base to pay the dealer for that car. Next is compiling a long list of dealers, and begin both calling in to the ones out of my area and walking into the ones near me to see who will bite on my price (for non-high-demand or non-exotic cars, best to try to talk to a fleet sales person). If I contact 30 dealers and not one is willing to accept my offer, then I might decide that I am a bit low, so I up it a 100 or 2 and then start calling again.

Every car I've purchased was done this way, and I've never paid anywhere NEAR sticker, and usually in the range of $300 plus or minus invoice (except for my first - learning lesson, and my last - the Lotus).

Cash vs financing NEVER even entered the picture.
You REALLY need to read the book "The Millionaire Next Door". You are a textbook example in their auto section.
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post #71 of 83 (permalink) Old 03-27-2008, 09:49 PM
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I believe the soon to be jailed Sheriff of Orange County, CA, was asking all new car dealers to run credit checks on prospective car buyers. It was his way of trying to find drug dealers.

If you do plan to use a CC on your auto purchase or down payment. Negotiate the cash portion of the deal and get the papers signed, then pull out your CC. If they refuse it, a simple call to the 800 number on the back of the card will change their mind. They have to accept CC for any or none transactions. Imagine a service/parts department that can't accept CC. I know it works that way for Visa, MC and AMEX; not sure about Diners or Discover.

My Elise salesman balked when I was just putting the $5K deposit on my CC, with the rest of the funds to be wire transferred. His boss set him straight. With some of the free cash advance checks you can really mess with the less than financially savy sales critters. No disrespect meant towards present company.
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post #72 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-03-2008, 06:58 PM
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LBC,

Not responding in a personal way but in all seriousness, your method is not bad from a buyers point of view.

but now things get interesting...

If you called me up and pretty much gave me your acceptable numbers etc., I would straight away respond with no thanks, I am not interested. Now, What would you think of my response-would you be offended? Should you be?

I had a guy come in and set his laptop on my desk and basically do what you are describing. I said no thank you, I am not interested. He sat there and just "stalled"(only way I can describe it). Finally, he asks me "arent you going to ask your manager before you make that decision"? "I said no, my manager trusts me and it is not a deal that I am interested in making." Then he says "what number are you thinking of?" So I gave him a rough fair number. He responds with a counter and I say "no thanks again". After realizing I am not going to negotiate further, he got up with his laptop thoroughly pissed off and stormed out saying "I have never seen a deal worked like this".

But really now-does he have grounds to be mad? He came in and made an offer...I declined and did not wish to negotiate further. Its simple. I don't HAVE to negotiate. I dont HAVE to sell a car. Sometimes it benefits me not to sell a car.

Again-not directed at you-just food for thought from the other side of the table.

Dominick
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post #73 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-03-2008, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominick22 View Post
LBC,

Not responding in a personal way but in all seriousness, your method is not bad from a buyers point of view.

but now things get interesting...

If you called me up and pretty much gave me your acceptable numbers etc., I would straight away respond with no thanks, I am not interested. Now, What would you think of my response-would you be offended? Should you be?

I had a guy come in and set his laptop on my desk and basically do what you are describing. I said no thank you, I am not interested. He sat there and just "stalled"(only way I can describe it). Finally, he asks me "arent you going to ask your manager before you make that decision"? "I said no, my manager trusts me and it is not a deal that I am interested in making." Then he says "what number are you thinking of?" So I gave him a rough fair number. He responds with a counter and I say "no thanks again". After realizing I am not going to negotiate further, he got up with his laptop thoroughly pissed off and stormed out saying "I have never seen a deal worked like this".

But really now-does he have grounds to be mad? He came in and made an offer...I declined and did not wish to negotiate further. Its simple. I don't HAVE to negotiate. I dont HAVE to sell a car. Sometimes it benefits me not to sell a car.

Again-not directed at you-just food for thought from the other side of the table.

Dominick
Interesting, and I totally agree with you. I also appreciate you for not selling the car at any price that gives you a sale, even if the profit is only $300.00. You are helping the value of the brand, but you may also have less sales. There are many buyers who end up with a car like this, which is just out of their range, by taking advantage of huge discounts at the end of the model run; especially when the lots are over-flowing with the old ones, and the new ones are at the port waiting to come in.

Based on your story, I have one that taught me a lesson when I was 19 and thought I was a bad @$$ negotiator. I was in the Air Force stationed in Tucson, AZ, and I was looking for my first motorcycle after passing the required 5 day safety class to allow me to ride on the base (I lived in the dorms).

I bought a bunch of motorcycle magazines to read up on the current 600 CC super bike offerings from the usual suspects. After a lot of research, I decided I would buy a 1991 Honda CBR 600 F2. I was looking for a slightly used low mileage example, but also considered buying new in the beginning.

So I went to one of the motorcycle shops and found the bike I wanted and asked them how much they would take off MSRP. It was not very much (percentage wise), and I was used to my father getting much bigger discounts on the American cars that he purchased at least one of each year. I was hoping to get that kind of money off on these bikes also. I believe this guy offered me $300 off on a $6,000.00 + bike. I was not impressed.

So I went to another Honda dealer, a bigger one; much bigger actually. I thought to myself that these guys have much more room to move on the prices of their bikes because they sell so many more. I am approached by a man who I feel was the owner of the shop, or at least he seemed to have more interest in the shop than just a weekly pay check. He tells me about the bike and tells me the price. I ask about a discount and he gives me about the same discount as the other Honda shop in town, if not exactly the same.

I then tell him that I can get that same discount right down the street on the identical bike and I would like him to beat that price.

He stands up quickly, puts out his hand (I shake with him) and thanks me for coming by his dealership, and politely tells me to have a good afternoon or goodbye, and then walks off to help someone else.

I remembered being mad that he did that to me, I was also in a bit of shock because I did not see that coming, and I was also embarassed by the situation. I felt stupid. I also did not think I was such a great negotiator and that I still had a lot to learn; especially that you do not need to negotiate on every price just to feel like a man. If a price is fair the way it is, then there is nothing wrong with accepting it as is.

Since then I have done some deals that I am not proud of because I really was being cheap and I was taking advantage of a situation where I knew I had the upper hand.

Now I try to live by "live and let live." That does not mean that I will buy a brand new 240 S for full MSRP when they have already hinted that they will take a couple thousand over invoice; and I know that the value of that car will drop like a rock; but I do try to be fair and try to put myself in the salesman's shoes and even the manager if it is a very small dealership. Sometimes by paying more than you have to can help you in the future by establishing a better relationship with the dealer, and maybe getting some comps when it comes to service time, but also helping to preserve a brand that may be on the edge of continued production every day. I'm not saying that I am a great car buying negotiator, but I do know that I have made some excellent deals on new cars simply based on what I was able to resell the cars for a year or two later.

So anyway, that was a long story, but Dominick's story immediately reminded me of that day in Tucson where I learned some humiliation, but also other valuable lessons.

Stephen

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post #74 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-04-2008, 07:48 AM
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Very interesting story Stephen-And if you ever need an Audi-well, you know its full list! JK

Serisouly though, I was very glad to see your message and to know that you have been able to step out of the situation and understand more than just your own dynamic in the situation.

Dominick
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post #75 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-04-2008, 10:05 AM
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LBC,

Not responding in a personal way but in all seriousness, your method is not bad from a buyers point of view.

but now things get interesting...

If you called me up and pretty much gave me your acceptable numbers etc., I would straight away respond with no thanks, I am not interested. Now, What would you think of my response-would you be offended? Should you be?
Nope... I wouldn't be offended in the least. As a matter of fact, I would expect that response from most dealers. I would simply say "thanks anyway, and have a good day"... end of story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominick22 View Post
I had a guy come in and set his laptop on my desk and basically do what you are describing. I said no thank you, I am not interested. He sat there and just "stalled"(only way I can describe it). Finally, he asks me "arent you going to ask your manager before you make that decision"? "I said no, my manager trusts me and it is not a deal that I am interested in making." Then he says "what number are you thinking of?" So I gave him a rough fair number. He responds with a counter and I say "no thanks again". After realizing I am not going to negotiate further, he got up with his laptop thoroughly pissed off and stormed out saying "I have never seen a deal worked like this".

But really now-does he have grounds to be mad? He came in and made an offer...I declined and did not wish to negotiate further. Its simple. I don't HAVE to negotiate. I dont HAVE to sell a car. Sometimes it benefits me not to sell a car.

Again-not directed at you-just food for thought from the other side of the table.

Dominick
Yeah, obviously that guy had no idea what he was doing, including bringing in a laptop - tacky. But this example is nowhere NEAR what I was trying to convey. I never said that a dealer HAS to negotiate, or anything else remotely related to that.

What I was trying to convey was that buyers need to do a little homework BEFORE they begin the process, including knowing all costs and exactly what they want... down to the heated seats and the color. As far as negotiating - there are no laws on how negotiation shall be conducted. My personal feeling is, if I make an offer, I am not going to waste my time or their time. Yes or no, or just a simple counter-offer. That's it, end of story, move on to another dealer if not satisfied. No need to bring emotions into the equation.

I guess it just never ceases to amaze me that seemingly educated people that can negotiate a deal on just about anything else, including a $1 million home, turn into Silly Putty when trying to purchase a $20,000 car. It's really not rocket science!

07 Exige S 265: GG, Track Pack, V1, RV Camera, S111 CF roof and splitter, 4.5-lb Voltphreaks battery, 10-lb Von Hep Exhaust, Green filter, 265 crank hp +/-, Volk TE 37 Wheels, RTDbrace, Scroth 6-point ASM harnesses, Innovative Motor Mounts, Saiku Michi Catch Cans. To come: IC fans, headers, and sport cat. 1955 lbs total weight (est w/tank half full)
05 Elise: Storm Titanium, Sport, Touring, Stage II (SOLD) (May '05 - Sept '06)
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post #76 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-04-2008, 10:38 AM
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Interesting, and I totally agree with you. I also appreciate you for not selling the car at any price that gives you a sale, even if the profit is only $300.00. You are helping the value of the brand, but you may also have less sales. There are many buyers who end up with a car like this, which is just out of their range, by taking advantage of huge discounts at the end of the model run; especially when the lots are over-flowing with the old ones, and the new ones are at the port waiting to come in.
In my post, maybe I did not make it clear enough, but the method I suggested was not for HIGH DEMAND, RARE, or EXOTIC vehicles, but rather the ordinary, high-production cars most buyers are looking for.

And to be fair, I paid FULL LIST price for both the Elise and Exige, and was perfectly happy to do so!

07 Exige S 265: GG, Track Pack, V1, RV Camera, S111 CF roof and splitter, 4.5-lb Voltphreaks battery, 10-lb Von Hep Exhaust, Green filter, 265 crank hp +/-, Volk TE 37 Wheels, RTDbrace, Scroth 6-point ASM harnesses, Innovative Motor Mounts, Saiku Michi Catch Cans. To come: IC fans, headers, and sport cat. 1955 lbs total weight (est w/tank half full)
05 Elise: Storm Titanium, Sport, Touring, Stage II (SOLD) (May '05 - Sept '06)
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post #77 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-04-2008, 11:25 AM
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I guess it just never ceases to amaze me that seemingly educated people that can negotiate a deal on just about anything else, including a $1 million home, turn into Silly Putty when trying to purchase a $20,000 car. It's really not rocket science!
Hilarious and so true.

LBC,
I was mostly just telling a story. Not trying to imply that my story was related directly to your method of car purchasing. It would seem that you do have the right intentions from the onset and I am sure that the people you deal with appreciate it.

Again rofl about the above qoute. SO TRUE

Dominick
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post #78 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-04-2008, 11:42 AM
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A little quick math tells me this would have been 3,500 lbs!
PhoneBoy.....what a great way to end a "" STORY " "
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post #79 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-07-2010, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
That is a lot of money to some of us; dealers too.
Regardless, you should only allow credit credit checks when you've made the decision to buy-- not before!

Credit checks show up as "inquiries" on your credit report, which counts against your score....

I drove the Evora LE without any credit check, and that's a $90k car. You just have to come off as genuinely interested in making a purchase. Lotus dealers care only about closing, not "selling" these cars.. Cars like these sell themselves. So they play this game with the credit checks.

Just tell them your a cash buyer. You can change your mind later.

But to comment on the original topic, the auto industry is heavily depended on for loan sales. That's where the majority of the profit lies, so it will be unlikely for them to give you any discounts. Cash sales limit their ability to manipulate the bottom line by way of a loan...

Last edited by squidward; 04-07-2010 at 09:24 AM.
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post #80 of 83 (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 11:26 AM
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Regardless, you should only allow credit credit checks when you've made the decision to buy-- not before!

I drove the Evora LE without any credit check, and that's a $90k car. You just have to come off as genuinely interested in making a purchase. Lotus dealers care only about closing, not "selling" these cars.. Cars like these sell themselves. So they play this game with the credit checks.
I had no credit check on an Evora test drive either. I didn't know that was a common practice- I would have walked away if asked. Maybe it helped that I drove up in a Lotus?
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