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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2010, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Smile Lotus Europa Racing

Hello everybody,

me and my father are rebuilding a 1969 Lotus Europa S2 to a historic racecar under the regulations of the FIA as they were in 1971. If you want, you could visit the development of the next months on the link in my signature. Porsche & Lotus Racing Team
I would like to know, whether other people in this forum are racing with historic Europas. I read about one member, who is rebuilding one of this great cars in the USA.
What about pictures of your cars, people? I would like to see some racecars here. I'm going to start with a few pics of our future's racecar.

Kindest regards

Stefan from Germany
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2010, 03:06 PM
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Garage

Anyone can make something complicated. It takes genius to make it simple. Einstein.
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2010, 03:10 PM
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that looks good!
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2010, 04:59 PM
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I like those flares! Cool looking Europa.

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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2010, 05:13 PM
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What kind of half shafts are those?

(I also like the BRG bonnet prop)
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-04-2010, 06:56 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thruthefence View Post
What kind of half shafts are those?

(I also like the BRG bonnet prop)
The half shafts are not original, but they were in the car, as my dad bought it. They could be from a VW or maybe from Renault 16. I'm not quite sure, but it's nothing special.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-04-2010, 07:22 AM
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Hi Stefan
You should contact these guys: Northshore Sportscars: Morgan Cars New and Used, all Vintage, Classic Sports Cars and ask for Norb. He has been successfully vintage racing a S1 Europa for many years now. He started out with a modified engine from a R17 Gordini (looks like the same engine you have in your S2 right now) with a Renault Fuego transaxle and later changed over something with a lot more power and reliability. I would tell you what that engine is, but it is a secret so you will have to ask him yourself! Anyway, they have the car well sorted out now so I am sure he can give you a lot of tips on things that work as well as those that don't. The only thing I can offer is that the Gordini engine was his largest source of constant trouble.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-04-2010, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tesprit View Post
Hi Stefan
You should contact these guys: Northshore Sportscars: Morgan Cars New and Used, all Vintage, Classic Sports Cars and ask for Norb. He has been successfully vintage racing a S1 Europa for many years now. He started out with a modified engine from a R17 Gordini (looks like the same engine you have in your S2 right now) with a Renault Fuego transaxle and later changed over something with a lot more power and reliability. I would tell you what that engine is, but it is a secret so you will have to ask him yourself! Anyway, they have the car well sorted out now so I am sure he can give you a lot of tips on things that work as well as those that don't. The only thing I can offer is that the Gordini engine was his largest source of constant trouble.
Hi tesprit,

can you tell me some characteristics to identify the engine from the outside. Do the blocks or heads look different? I'm not sure, which Renault engine it is. Is the displacement apparent without detaching the engine?

Regards

Stefan
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-04-2010, 09:26 AM
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I can positively identify your engine as having a cross flow head (as opposed to the original R16 wedge head) based on the wide, flat valve cover with the spark plug leads down the center of it. Another visual clue is the twin DCOE carbs on one side of the head and the exhaust on the other. Whether it is an actual Gordini as opposed to a standard TS cross flow is hard to determine without seeing the engine internals. Also, that aluminum valve cover is a specific Gordini part and should have "Renault Gordini" casted into the top where the fins are so that leads me to believe is is a real Gordini. To better identify the engine, there is a identification plate riveted to the side of the block just under the head and above the mount for the starter. It should have a type number on it starting with a three digits beginning with an 8 and then a dash and finally ending with a two digit suffix, for example 844-12. You will probably have to get a light and an inspection mirror under the exhaust header flange and above the starter to read this plate. Once you have that type number, post it here and I should be able to tell you the displacement and possibly if it is a true Gordini engine. Now, there can be other problems with identifying which parts are actually inside the engine. These engines can be rebuilt using internal parts, heads, and cylinders from other similar Renault engines so they could possibly contain parts mixed and matched from an R12, R16, R15, R17, Fuego, 18i, etc. Only a complete tear down and inspection will positively identify what exactly is inside the engine but getting the information from the engine block plate is a good start. Also, could you possibly post some more photos of the engine and transaxle? They would help me identify it as well.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-04-2010, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tesprit View Post
I can positively identify your engine as having a cross flow head (as opposed to the original R16 wedge head) based on the wide, flat valve cover with the spark plug leads down the center of it. Another visual clue is the twin DCOE carbs on one side of the head and the exhaust on the other. Whether it is an actual Gordini as opposed to a standard TS cross flow is hard to determine without seeing the engine internals. Also, that aluminum valve cover is a specific Gordini part and should have "Renault Gordini" casted into the top where the fins are so that leads me to believe is is a real Gordini. To better identify the engine, there is a identification plate riveted to the side of the block just under the head and above the mount for the starter. It should have a type number on it starting with a three digits beginning with an 8 and then a dash and finally ending with a two digit suffix, for example 844-12. You will probably have to get a light and an inspection mirror under the exhaust header flange and above the starter to read this plate. Once you have that type number, post it here and I should be able to tell you the displacement and possibly if it is a true Gordini engine. Now, there can be other problems with identifying which parts are actually inside the engine. These engines can be rebuilt using internal parts, heads, and cylinders from other similar Renault engines so they could possibly contain parts mixed and matched from an R12, R16, R15, R17, Fuego, 18i, etc. Only a complete tear down and inspection will positively identify what exactly is inside the engine but getting the information from the engine block plate is a good start. Also, could you possibly post some more photos of the engine and transaxle? They would help me identify it as well.
Chapeau!
I knew that this one is the engine with cross flow head and not the original 1470ccm engine. As far as I know it is the 1565 ccm engine, which ran in the R16 TS or TL. The valve cover is by Lotus. It's the same as shown in the attachment. Unfortunately I just have bad pictures of ours. You can see it much better on the other picture.
I'm going to take the next chance to have a look after the identfication plate, when we have the time to work on the car in a few days. Hopefully before the next weekend...

Regards

Stefan
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-04-2010, 10:35 AM
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Just from the photos above, I can pretty much confirm it is not an original Gordini engine. I am also fairly certain the displacement is either 1565cc, 1605cc or 1647cc. Seeing as you are in Germany I would lean toward the 1565cc or 1605cc because, if I recall correctly, the 1647cc engines were the emissions strangled low compression engines from the Renaults sent to the US. The valve cover you have is an aftermarket reproduction of the Gordini cover with the Lotus name on it instead. Lotus never sold the Europa with a Gordini or cross flow head engine, but it is a very common modification to obtain more power in the aftermarket. Once you have the numbers from the engine plate, I should be able to give you the displacement.
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-04-2010, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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Hi,

Donor Cars
is this a complete list of the Renault engines, which are used in the Lotus Europa S2?

Regards
Stefan

Last edited by Mecky; 12-05-2010 at 12:37 PM.
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
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Hi,

Donor Cars
is this a complete list of the Renault engines, which are used in the Lotus Europa S2?

Regards
Stefan
The 697 and 821 engines were the only engines supplied by Lotus. Renault wouldn't sell them the cross flow head/Gordini engines (the rest of the engines in your list), but they will bolt up in place of the original engines so yes, this is a complete list of the engines that can be used in a S2 Europa.
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 11:30 PM
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If you're looking to run FIA historics, then you should also look very closely at the rules governing options for your car. Based on class, you may find you're required to run a specific engine and/or transmission.
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 08:31 AM
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Nice fiberglass work on your Lotus. That's what the Europa should have looked like from the factory! I always like the high rear on the S2 over the low rear on the Twin Cam.
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 09:02 AM
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Nice fiberglass work on your Lotus. That's what the Europa should have looked like from the factory! I always like the high rear on the S2 over the low rear on the Twin Cam.
Having owned both, I can tell you that sitting in the driver's seat and trying to see what's around you, the sail panels on the S1/S2's are less appealing....
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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-11-2010, 04:17 AM Thread Starter
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I can positively identify your engine as having a cross flow head (as opposed to the original R16 wedge head) based on the wide, flat valve cover with the spark plug leads down the center of it. Another visual clue is the twin DCOE carbs on one side of the head and the exhaust on the other. Whether it is an actual Gordini as opposed to a standard TS cross flow is hard to determine without seeing the engine internals. Also, that aluminum valve cover is a specific Gordini part and should have "Renault Gordini" casted into the top where the fins are so that leads me to believe is is a real Gordini. To better identify the engine, there is a identification plate riveted to the side of the block just under the head and above the mount for the starter. It should have a type number on it starting with a three digits beginning with an 8 and then a dash and finally ending with a two digit suffix, for example 844-12. You will probably have to get a light and an inspection mirror under the exhaust header flange and above the starter to read this plate. Once you have that type number, post it here and I should be able to tell you the displacement and possibly if it is a true Gordini engine. Now, there can be other problems with identifying which parts are actually inside the engine. These engines can be rebuilt using internal parts, heads, and cylinders from other similar Renault engines so they could possibly contain parts mixed and matched from an R12, R16, R15, R17, Fuego, 18i, etc. Only a complete tear down and inspection will positively identify what exactly is inside the engine but getting the information from the engine block plate is a good start. Also, could you possibly post some more photos of the engine and transaxle? They would help me identify it as well.
Hi there,

it is the 807-04 engine. I did not find it in the list above, but I think all 807 engines have 1565 ccm, right? Can you tell me something about it? Maybe out of which Renault model it is and how old it could be? The engine number is 55104.

Kind regards

Stefan
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-11-2010, 06:23 AM
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Hi Stefan,
Yes, the engine is 1565 cc in displacement. As far as I can tell it came from a R16 TS (R1151) and was equipped with a carburetor so it is a period engine that would have been produced in the late 60's/early 70's. From my shop manual, stock compression would have been either 9.25 : 1 or 10.25 : 1 and the power rating (SAE) would have been 102 bhp at 5,800 rpm. Maximum torque (SAE) would have been 95.5 lb ft at 3000 rpm. This page (you will have to do a bit of translating): Renault 16 - techniek en tests gives a lot of information on the 807-04 specifications.

Dan
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-15-2011, 12:53 AM Thread Starter
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Hi, it's me again,

I have a problem
I only have the 1565 ccm R16 engine (807-04), but this engine is not homologated for Lotus Europa by the FIA.

To get a Historic Technical Passport (HTP) for the car, I need a proof that in this period were Lotus Europa driven on international racing events with the 1565 ccm engine. And I have to show it to the German motorsport association (DMSB). If that is not possible, i am only allowed to take the 1470 ccm engine, which has not enough power, or the Twin Cam engine, which is too expensive for me.
Does somebody of you know where I could search for something like that and where I could get it.

I would be very very pleased, if somebody of you could help me or could give me a hint.

Maybe someone else had the same problem in the past...

Best regards

Stefan from Germany

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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 04-16-2011, 06:44 PM
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Hi Stefan,

Can you tell me what wheels you have and what size?
Good luck with determining your engine specification. Are you absolutely sure you can't find an affordable twin cam?
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