New synthetic oils in a TwinCam? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-26-2011, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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New synthetic oils in a TwinCam?

Does anybody know if the new synthetic oils like Royal Purple will work in a Lotus TwinCam? Are the older style engines and seals able to hold the new super slippery oils? Same question for trans fluid?
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-26-2011, 08:17 PM
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I used RP exclusively for almost 2 yr now and everything is ok. It feels great on track and on regular dinner meet.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-26-2011, 08:33 PM
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re: Synthetic oil

Synthetic oil for the engine is better then conventional. Do NOT use synthetic to break in an engine, especially an old one. It will not.

The myth about leaking seals is just that. Maybe less wax (bad for the engine) in the oil caused oil leaks from looser tolerances.

Always use oil grade and spec recommended by manufacturer or engine builder. This makes trans fluid trickier as the specs are less well defined.

Anton
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-27-2011, 05:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harix View Post
I used RP exclusively for almost 2 yr now and everything is ok. It feels great on track and on regular dinner meet.
This is good to know and what I was hoping to see! I run RP in my Camaro and Toyota and ran it in my Mazda RX8 when I had it. I've used it for years.

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Originally Posted by ageshelin View Post
Synthetic oil for the engine is better then conventional. Do NOT use synthetic to break in an engine, especially an old one. It will not.

The myth about leaking seals is just that. Maybe less wax (bad for the engine) in the oil caused oil leaks from looser tolerances.

Always use oil grade and spec recommended by manufacturer or engine builder. This makes trans fluid trickier as the specs are less well defined.

Anton
Yes I know about synthetics and breaking in an engine. Thanks guys!
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-27-2011, 04:09 PM
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i prefer Amsoil over Royal Purple.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-27-2011, 04:32 PM
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I switched to Mobile 1 over a decade ago. No problems. The car gets light usage.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-28-2011, 05:10 PM
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You need to make sure the oil you use is formulated for flat tappet engines which usually means it is high in zddp (zinc, manganese, and phosphates). Levels of these were reduced to enhance the life of catalytic converters and for modern engines this is fine, but there is higher pressure on older flat tappet engines like the twin cam (interesting link: ZDDP Oil Issues).

A couple of data points:
A lot of people use oils designated for diesel engines.
I was told by a guy at Red Line that they recommend their 10w40.
I started using Mobil 1 15w50.

I don't know how Amsoil or Royal Purple are in this regard. They may be fine.

You can also get a zddp additive at r.d. enterprises.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-28-2011, 06:06 PM
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would the mobile 15 50 be good in the standard Renault unit in an s2?

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-28-2011, 07:45 PM
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I can tell you that I have tried using synthetic in my Caterham with a crossflow and my Elan Twin Cam. That is early Elan twincam, not the 91 with the Isuzu motor.

My cars pissed the stuff out from places I did not know had leaks.

When back to Castrol 20/50, leaks stopped

You can also use the Castrol blend, or you can just put a can of synthetic in with your regualar oil. Now I know somebody is going to tell me that is wrong but my research shows it is not.

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2005 Elise Ardent Red, www.lotusowners.com LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York) and the Church of the HolyLotus, Drive Fast Take Chances, 93 Caterham 7, 71 Elan, 70 Elan GTS, 1991 M100, 1999 Sport 190 Elise, 1974 Europa TC, 1973 Europa JPS #15 TwinCam.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-28-2011, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvacc View Post
I can tell you that I have tried using synthetic in my Caterham with a crossflow and my Elan Twin Cam. That is early Elan twincam, not the 91 with the Isuzu motor.

My cars pissed the stuff out from places I did not know had leaks.

When back to Castrol 20/50, leaks stopped

You can also use the Castrol blend, or you can just put a can of synthetic in with your regualar oil. Now I know somebody is going to tell me that is wrong but my research shows it is not.
FWIW, I concur with this and YMMV, but I turned a dry Jaguar XK engine into the Exxon Valdez within 100 miles after switching it over to synthetic oil. It actually took a couple of oil changes with conventional Castrol again to get it to stop leaking.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDA View Post
You need to make sure the oil you use is formulated for flat tappet engines which usually means it is high in zddp (zinc, manganese, and phosphates). Levels of these were reduced to enhance the life of catalytic converters and for modern engines this is fine, but there is higher pressure on older flat tappet engines like the twin cam (interesting link: ZDDP Oil Issues).
A couple of data points:
A lot of people use oils designated for diesel engines.
I was told by a guy at Red Line that they recommend their 10w40.
I started using Mobil 1 15w50.
I don't know how Amsoil or Royal Purple are in this regard. They may be fine.
You can also get a zddp additive at r.d. enterprises.
The standard tune Twin-Cam engine doesn't require high ZDDP levels; 900 ppm of phosphorus (the actual boundary anti-wear element in the ZDDP molecule) is plenty. Since the engine requires heavy oil you'll get at least that amount of phosphorus in any oil you choose.

There is nothing wrong with synthetic oils per se, but due to their higher viscosity index they will be much be lighter in normal operation. This will translate into lower oil pressure and increased oil consumption.
For example, in my Twin-Cam Europa a switch to Mobil 1 15W-50 from the typical 20W-50 mineral oil resulted in my hot oil pressure dropping from 38 psi at elivated rev's to 34 psi and mt oil consumption from 750 miles /L to 500 miles/L.

In rebuilt Twin-Cams with valve guide seals installed, a higher pressure oil pump and tight modern clearances you can run even a 30 weight synthetic without issue but not in the original engine.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 11:35 AM
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Engine oil:

When I tried the Castrol synthetic in the 90s, same as above: Many leaks.

I was able to use Mobil 1 after the engine rebuild, also as noted above.

Back then, Castrol synthetic was terrible stuff. A C&D columnist wrote a scathing column about it, based on an interview w/an oil engineer. For legal reasons, the next month a disclaimer/apology was printed. But, he was right the 1st time.



Do NOT use Redline in Elan trans: It is too slippery for synchros to work. Moreover, when I opened up the trans, having used petroleum lube, it was in great, clean shape.

Note: There is a way to get the t-c cam cover to:

a) not leak

b) be removable/replaceable without a new gasket.

this requires a bit of patience, but little more.

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Moss Emergency Line-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...cy-line-36631/
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-09-2011, 04:33 PM
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We use a special racing 40 weight blend synthetic not available to the general public. If you contact Castrol directly, and you race the car, they may send you some. But DEFINATELY, do not use synthetic to break in your engine after rebuild. It will not wear in properly as synthetic is much more slippery than conventional. We have also noticed our engine rebuilds last 3-4 times longer with synthetic.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 10:03 AM
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I have a '73 Europa Twin cam that was stored for 5 years before I bought it and was filled with synthetic oil recommended by the sellers dealer. Well the reason was that oil tends to get acidic from sitting and was the reason for the synthetic oil, Castrol Syntec. After I started driving it, after I changed the oil with fresh Castrol Syntec, it started to leak and has gotten worse and found out that the seals in these older cars will get eaten up by the synthetic oil. I will be replacing all the seals shortly. I was told by members that this is typical of synthetic oils in older cars, Bobbythejuge
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 10:22 AM
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As per post #12, I believe the Castrol to be a poor oil.

05 elise (BOE Rev300 supercharged, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS. Past '72 Elan Sprint (I restored), Lotus 7 w/X-flow, TT Supra, Bugeye Sprite, BMW 2002 & 2002tii, '65 GTO.

Driving Tips-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...art-1-a-49665/
Moss Emergency Line-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...cy-line-36631/
Bleeding Brakes- https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...-brakes-241138
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 07:35 PM
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jay ivy's oil is used in all sorts of twinks and bd's lents and so on. i believe, but no sure - it very similar to joe gibbs. id just call jay and ask - based on the build, time, and state of your engine.

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 08:28 AM
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Some of the older cars are temperamental about what blood flows their veins....my rides love Rotella oil straight up!
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 09:05 AM
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Have you ever used Castrol R as an UCL smells great when burning
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 09:31 AM
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When I bought my last Europa I swapped out the mineral oil for Royal Purple in the trans. What I thought what a tight transmission started leaking all over the place.

Owned, loved, enjoyed, and now gone:
1969 Europa S2 Blue
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1974 Europa Twin Cam Blue
1974 Europa Twin Cam Blue
1984 Turbo Esprit Calypso Red
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2005 Elise Ardent Red
2006 Exige Graphite Grey
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