2006 Exige No start, MFRU clicking - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By lotus72Eur
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 02:24 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Jordan Hammond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Honolulu Hawaii
Posts: 20
Garage
2006 Exige No start, MFRU clicking

I have a 2006 Exige with a FF275 turbo kit and DRS piggyback EMS. I just got home, checked the mail for my new data cable and went to plug the cable into the piggyback ECU (just a serial to USB cable for my laptop) but I had to unplug one of the plugs to the piggyback ecu harness to get my hand to the port (key and everything was off). I plugged the harness back in and went to start and it wouldn't start. It showed completely empty on the gas (I have a full tank). When I turn the key to the run position it would start clicking erratically on its own from several places but clicking all at the same time. From the traction control button, AC compressor clutch, underneath the front fuse box and from the MFRU (Multi Function Relay Unit). I unplugged the AC compressor clutch and everything kept clicking, then unplugged the MFRU and no clicking at all. I opened up the MFRU box and there was no signs of physical/electrical damage but obviously wouldn't start. When the MFRU was in and I would hit the key fob button before I start, the fuel pump would stay running, then when I press the start button it wouldn't turn over and the starter would give a weird quick "dutdutdut". Battery is full, even tried with a jump pack to make sure, tested all fuses in the engine and in front, all electronics work from what I can tell.

The first two pictures are my Multi Function Relay Unit the last picture of the blue box is my EMS, the only thing I unplugged was the middle plug on that and that's all. I was only at home for like 10 minutes. Car was driving great when I got home, shut it off plugged my new serial cable into the EMS and then a no start with all these weird issues. The only thing that changed any of the symptoms was taking out the MFRU, then all symptoms would stop. But if that is the issue, what would cause that to go bad? It basically a mechanical device that electrically moves contacts back and forth. If it is bad, how can I test it?

But if not that, what could I check?? Does anyone know what could be causing all this?

Any help is appreciated!




Here is video of the clicking of the AC compressor before I took out. And how do I make it so the video appears here and you don't have to click on the link?

https://www.youtube.com/embed/1k47G8PScZs
Attached Images
         
Jordan Hammond is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 05:45 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 280
The dash showing empty fuel is what happens when power is cycled to the ECU. If you leave this on it should update and show the correct amount.

Here is how to test a relay you need a power supply or a 12v battery and a multimeter.
https://www.wikihow.com/Test-a-Relay


Did you check to see if the started is stuck in the engaged position?

Also, check the ground. I have seen this on several cars the ground connection has gone bad or isn't fully attached. This causes a resistance and limits the amount of voltage applied to the starter.
Here is a wire diagram.
Lotus Exige Start Button Failure and Diagnosis

I just saw your video that sounds like it is just throwing the starter solenoid.
redcar9 is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Jordan Hammond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Honolulu Hawaii
Posts: 20
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by redcar9 View Post
The dash showing empty fuel is what happens when power is cycled to the ECU. If you leave this on it should update and show the correct amount.

Here is how to test a relay you need a power supply or a 12v battery and a multimeter.
https://www.wikihow.com/Test-a-Relay


Did you check to see if the started is stuck in the engaged position?

Also, check the ground. I have seen this on several cars the ground connection has gone bad or isn't fully attached. This causes a resistance and limits the amount of voltage applied to the starter.
Here is a wire diagram.
Lotus Exige Start Button Failure and Diagnosis

I just saw your video that sounds like it is just throwing the starter solenoid.
The clicking you here is the ac compressor engaging on and off. Once I unplugged it the loud clicking was gone, but still doing the rest of it.

You said when I leave something on it will reset the fuel, leave what on?

Starter isn't stuck engaged.

I'll have to check the grounds. I just dont know what could have caused this. One minute I was driving it ththe next after i turn it off it's all ****ed up
Jordan Hammond is offline  
 
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 12:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 280
1. "unplug one of the plugs to the piggyback ecu harness to get my hand to the port (key and everything was off)."
Q: - Was the battery disconnected? It seems to me, that the ECU is a bit confused as it likely had some voltage applied even in an ignition off state. I would disconnect the battery and let the car sit for a few hours to drain all of the caps in the ECU.

It's also possible you corrupted the software on the ECU by doing this. That could explain the erratic behavior with the AC compressor. Can you follow the ECU instructions and connect to the what looks like DB9 serial port? Maybe the ECU software has some basic systems check.


2." I plugged the harness back in and went to start and it wouldn't start. It showed completely empty on the gas (I have a full tank). "
A: (The stock ECU does this when the battery is removed over winter and or resetting after a check engine light from a OBD scan tool. ) Just leaving the car in the on position the ECU takes readings on fuel level. Lack of fuel isn't a problem here, but this points to an issue with the ECU.
redcar9 is offline  
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 12:32 PM
The Enforcer
 
oldmansan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Alamitos, CA
Posts: 5,949
If you're going to disconnect the battery, step on the brake pedal for 5 seconds. Good luck.

San

#8 Metric Allen Key, Plastic Carpet Buttons
oldmansan is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Jordan Hammond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Honolulu Hawaii
Posts: 20
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansan View Post
If you're going to disconnect the battery, step on the brake pedal for 5 seconds. Good luck.

San

You mean after you disconnect to drain all residual power? Did that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcar9 View Post
1. "unplug one of the plugs to the piggyback ecu harness to get my hand to the port (key and everything was off)."
Q: - Was the battery disconnected? It seems to me, that the ECU is a bit confused as it likely had some voltage applied even in an ignition off state. I would disconnect the battery and let the car sit for a few hours to drain all of the caps in the ECU.

It's also possible you corrupted the software on the ECU by doing this. That could explain the erratic behavior with the AC compressor. Can you follow the ECU instructions and connect to the what looks like DB9 serial port? Maybe the ECU software has some basic systems check.


2." I plugged the harness back in and went to start and it wouldn't start. It showed completely empty on the gas (I have a full tank). "
A: (The stock ECU does this when the battery is removed over winter and or resetting after a check engine light from a OBD scan tool. ) Just leaving the car in the on position the ECU takes readings on fuel level. Lack of fuel isn't a problem here, but this points to an issue with the ECU.

I've done all of the above, left the battery unplugged over night, pressed brake pedal to release all residual power too. Tried to connect to the software of the ECU and my laptop doesn't register that it is even connected(like the ECU has no power). And with the fuel, if i leave my key in the on position, it will start clicking.


But an update on my research. I found 2 posts from 4 years ago from the user @DCampbell; stating the exact same issue...because it was the exact same issue on the exact same car. This car was his and he had the exact same problem. But based off his 2 posts, a shop was able to figure it but there wasnt a whole lot of follow up on the threads after it was fixed so there wasn't a solid place for me to look. I found the previous owner on Facebook and sent him a message but he hasn't received it yet. But based off of his profile he still lives in the same area so maybe I can have him come by sometime. But until then I'm going to keep trying to figure it out.


Here are his 2 threads.

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f15...-empty-244577/



https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f34...le-efi-250081/


Quote:
Car is now running! We found a crack in the solder joint into one of the DRS connections. Needle in the haystack!



We need to re-assemble the car and then will drop you a line.


Greg.


Greg Lock
Hangar 111 Limited
This is a quote from the post with what they found to be the problem, not many details on where that "solder joint is" but I'm on the hunt now. After seeing this post, I took the DRS EMS out and opened it up to inspect the circuit board. I saw no signs of any burnt or disconnected solder, but maybe its just hard to see with the eye..idk

Here is another video after putting everything back in again.

Jordan Hammond is offline  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Jordan Hammond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Honolulu Hawaii
Posts: 20
Garage
Bump
Jordan Hammond is offline  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 12:29 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 280
Having an aftermarket ECU limits the pool of people who can help you. I think the posts showing this problem happened before is probably your best solution. I would wait to see if you can contact the previous owner. Heck even offering to pay for his time might be worth it.

Based on the response from Greg the multipin connector going into the ECU has a cracked solder joint to the PCB. You can remove the ECU from the case and post some picture of the top and bottom of the PCB.

If this is the problem it's a pretty easy fix with a nice solder iron and about 1hr of experience.



Or the pins on the connector that are crimped on to the wires, they can break internally and you won't see it. I would start with a pinout of the ECU and look for the power pins. Check to see if the ECU is getting power.

Best of luck, it might help to have a friend double check. Sometimes things are very obviously wrong and easily over looked.
redcar9 is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Jordan Hammond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Honolulu Hawaii
Posts: 20
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by redcar9 View Post
Having an aftermarket ECU limits the pool of people who can help you. I think the posts showing this problem happened before is probably your best solution. I would wait to see if you can contact the previous owner. Heck even offering to pay for his time might be worth it.

Based on the response from Greg the multipin connector going into the ECU has a cracked solder joint to the PCB. You can remove the ECU from the case and post some picture of the top and bottom of the PCB.

If this is the problem it's a pretty easy fix with a nice solder iron and about 1hr of experience.



Or the pins on the connector that are crimped on to the wires, they can break internally and you won't see it. I would start with a pinout of the ECU and look for the power pins. Check to see if the ECU is getting power.

Best of luck, it might help to have a friend double check. Sometimes things are very obviously wrong and easily over looked.

I messaged and added him on facebook but he has yet to respond back. What is a PCB? The next thing I was about to do is check power to the ECU, but I'll have to open it back up and post some pictures. I am currently testing resistance on the MFRU. I plugged everything back together except for the aftermarket ECU, turned the key to the run position and the same problem happens. So two things I was thinking, either the ecu has no effect on the problem or the ecu isnt able to send the proper signals to the rest of the car due to a lack of connection to the ECU, so it's not sending the right signal causing everything to go all wanky. I checked all the wires going to the ecu and piggy back harness but couldn't find an issue there.

Here's another video of it with the EMS ECU disconnected.

https://youtu.be/GbVlqmH8JIg
Jordan Hammond is offline  
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 05:30 PM
The Enforcer
 
oldmansan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Alamitos, CA
Posts: 5,949
Printed circuit board.

San

#8 Metric Allen Key, Plastic Carpet Buttons
oldmansan is offline  
post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Jordan Hammond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Honolulu Hawaii
Posts: 20
Garage
Where is the interior fuse box lol

First two are from my EMS ECU, second two are the bottom of the MFRU do the contacts look burnt at all to you? The ECU appears to have no physical issues. The ECU harness plugs are getting a 12v constant with key on and not fluctuating with the clicks.

I keep doing some testing and there's a constant humming to the rear of the engine with the key in the on position. I was testing fuses an took the "hot soak pump" fuse R8 5a out of the rear fuse box and the humming shut off but the MFRU continued clicking. I opened up the MFRU and plugged it in (making sure that nothing around was touching it) The two bottom relays are the ones that are clicking and clicking at the same rate and times. I need to find a good diagram that shows what relays in the MFRU are for what and the wires going to them.

-Checking to see if any of the front fuses stop the clicking next.
Attached Images
         

Last edited by Jordan Hammond; 12-31-2018 at 06:52 PM.
Jordan Hammond is offline  
post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-01-2019, 05:34 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Jordan Hammond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Honolulu Hawaii
Posts: 20
Garage
So hears the next little update. I noticed a blown fuse (F7 ignition services) and I was almost ecstatic, was this it? No, why would it be? I replaced it and hooked everything back up how its suppose to be, turned the key on and clicking continued, but the fuse didn't blow till I press the cluster light button, did it 3 times. That fuse will only blow if if the cluster light is pressed, never happened before all this.

I unhooked the front fuse box and turned the key on to see where the front clicking was coming from and its the front other MFRU (I believe its for the fans or cooling maybe but its under the front fuse box) but it clicks in sink with everything else, again when I unhooked the rear MFRU no clicking from anything, (but still no fuel level).

With the MFRU unhooked again, I tested power and ground at the plug connectors and received no varying voltages, no spikes, or drops indicating that the unit is receiving odd voltage causing the power to it to be on and off. I did the best I could not knowing what wires went where and wit the limited space down there.

I now have a few good diagrams that I'm using and trying to trace what goes where. But I test the resistance on the unit and here is what I came up with below, but have nothing known good to compare it too yet. A local guy has an extra one so I'm trying to meet up with him tomorrow.

Oh and also tried to press the inertia switch, nothing. What about the immobilizer? But then the fuel pump wouldn't come on, which it does, unless thats counteracted by the aftermarket fuel pump and EMS ECU. hmm... so much to work through..


(RCM1) 1 - (RCM1) 6 - 00.00Ω
(RCM1) 1 - (RCM1) 4 - O.L - ENGAGED L12 - 00.00Ω
(RCM1) 1 - (RCM1) 2 - O.L - ENGAGED L11 - 00.00Ω
(RCM1) 5 - (RCM1) 7 - O.L - ENGAGED L9 - 00.00Ω
(RCM1) 8 - (RCM1) 7 - O.L - ENGAGED L18 - 00.00Ω
(RCM1) 7 - (RCM1) 2 - O.L - ENGAGED L11 - 00.00Ω
(RCM1) 6 - (RCM1) 3 - O.L - ENGAGED L18 - 00.00Ω

(RCM1) 8 - (RCM2) 5 - 70.00Ω - ENGAGED L11 - FLUCTUATES THEN STEADYS
(RCM1) 6 - (RCM2) 3 - 71.40Ω - ENGAGED L18 - FLUCTUATES THEN STEADYS
(RCM1) 3 - (RCM2) 3 - O.L - ENGAGED L18 00.00Ω
(RCM1) 3 - (RCM2) 5 - 70.00Ω
Attached Images
   
Jordan Hammond is offline  
post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-01-2019, 10:24 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 280
I'm a bit short on time today, looked at the ECU it has every input/output fused. Check this with a diode test on a multimeter.

This one has extra conformal coating or is possibly damaged.
Attached Images
 
redcar9 is offline  
post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-01-2019, 10:27 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 280
i prefer the diode test as it applies a 2.5volts or so to the part. The meter will beep when a short is detected which is what you want for a fuse.

This is another method
https://www.swe-check.com.au/pages/l...se_testing.php
redcar9 is offline  
post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-01-2019, 02:19 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 280
Q:MFRU do the contacts look burnt at all to you?
A: No, this is just very sloppy flux. You can clean that with denatured alcohol and a q-tip.


What do you mean by cluster light?


The MFRU looks like it might be fine, the 70ohm should match up to the coils of the relays.


I think it's probably the part you originally touched. Damaged wire harness connector or damaged pin on ECU. Take a close look at this.
redcar9 is offline  
post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-01-2019, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Jordan Hammond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Honolulu Hawaii
Posts: 20
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by redcar9 View Post
I'm a bit short on time today, looked at the ECU it has every input/output fused. Check this with a diode test on a multimeter.

This one has extra conformal coating or is possibly damaged.

--Yeah it has extra conformal coating, I took a close up video of everything and really zoomed in, no signs of physical damage. I can post if you want to see.



Quote:
Originally Posted by redcar9 View Post
Q:MFRU do the contacts look burnt at all to you?
A: No, this is just very sloppy flux. You can clean that with denatured alcohol and a q-tip.


What do you mean by cluster light?


The MFRU looks like it might be fine, the 70ohm should match up to the coils of the relays.


I think it's probably the part you originally touched. Damaged wire harness connector or damaged pin on ECU. Take a close look at this.

Cluster light as in the top of the 2 light buttons next to the start button. Once I press that the F7 fuse blows.

Yeah I cant find anything that physically looks bad on any PCB. So it makes me really confused on what is wrong unless it is a wire, but then how would it just go out? When I originally unplugged the harness from the piggyback ECU I didn't move the wire more than an inch and didn't even bed them just moved it a little. And just 15 minutes before that I was driving it with no symptoms at all.

-To me it seems to be a very high coincidence that a wire would have got dislodged or broken for the ECU.

-The clicking still happens even with the ECU detached, but it stops when it take the MFRU out.

-when I measured at the wire harness of the MFRU there's no varying signals that would indicate a reason for the MFRU to be engaging sporadically.

-all symptoms stop when the MFRU is unplugged except for the fuel level.

I really don't know what else to test other than taking more apart and randomly testing wires. If I had another MFRU I could test to see if the resistances matched. I'm still thinking that the MFRU is the culprit. I'm going to take the front MFRU out and see if there are any similarities in resistance, I just know that that one cant go in the rear.
Jordan Hammond is offline  
post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 01:35 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Jordan Hammond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Honolulu Hawaii
Posts: 20
Garage
I'm honestly at a loss. Based off what I know about resistors and replays the MFRU test out to be in good working order. Everything is at +/- 70.00Ω at the resistors or where it should be and with contacts engaged 00.00Ω. unless I'm testing it wrong..? But yeah i honestly don't know whats causing the fluctuation of clicking. But when I said earlier that just 2 of t hem are clicking simultaneously the two are the Fuel Pump Relay and Hot Soak Relay, which based off what I can tell have no direct correlation with each other. so the fact that they are clicking in sink boggles my mind.

I've attached 2 pictures again just of some of my notes. Anyone feel free to chime in. I really do need the help haha
Attached Images
   
Jordan Hammond is offline  
post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 11:57 AM
Registered User
 
lotus72Eur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 387
I was having a dickens of a time trying to figure out what was going on with my AC. My Elise is BOE 300 supercharged with the DRS X2 ecu. I tried about everything I could think of. Sometimes the AC would work and sometimes it wouldn't. The compressor would sometimes kick on and other times it would not. I played with the relays, the AC clutch and the switches to no avail. Finally one day I make a long jumper wire and started to back track the circuits. Turned out that the X2 ecu has a separate connector for control of the AC clutch. When tested from the ecu if was fine but when the connector was put together it would push the pin back into the housing and not connect. I would really check the connector that you disconnected to see if all the pins are fine. The sound that I heard in you video does not sound like a relay to me. It is too loud for the relays. Sounds more like the starter solenoid kicking in and out. I would double check the battery and the ground. A weak battery, even with a jump, can read weak for the starter.
06 Elise likes this.

"It always seems to be something!"
lotus72Eur is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Electrical

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome