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post #81 of 96 (permalink) Old 12-14-2015, 05:28 PM
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GT4 is a lot better of a dual use car, feels like a quality item. It does all the right things dynamically and even has a decent amount of feedback for the driver. Having a Lotus, I am surprised how much I like the steering. Sounds amazing too. Feels like a $100k car.

An Elige feels like a toy in comparison. But a very FUN toy. More nimble and just puts a smile on my face. The driver connection / feedback is ramped up. More noises, more texture from the road, more required of the driver. The downside is that I would not drive my Lotus on a road trip, though have done so (LA to Monterrey). Also daily driving on a consistent basis, no way (for me). Shifter and brakes aren't as good as GT4.

Maybe I am getting old, but the GT4 is such a quality item, that maybe 80% of the time I would grab keys to the GT4. But on the right day, there is still NOTHING like a Lotus in terms of response and feel. Oh and let's not forget that tracking an Elige is next to free in terms of consumables.

It is kind of funny that for the 10+ years of owning the Lotus, my father has periodically commented that maybe I should sell it. But I always said no way, there will never be a car like this for a long time, if ever. Last weekend we go for a drive in the Lotus after maybe a month and he told me the Lotus is too unique, never sell it.

'05 Lotus Elise: RS134 Monolites, Nitron Singles, Monoballs, V2 arms, RTD2 brace, Innovative motor mounts, V2 tank, GPan, Larini 8", TransCables, LumosHID, GiroDisc, Ferodo DS2500, etc.
'16 Porsche Cayman GT4

Last edited by Vantage; 12-14-2015 at 05:35 PM.
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post #82 of 96 (permalink) Old 12-14-2015, 10:52 PM
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Nice write up.. I wonder how you would feel with a 300+hp Elise with upgraded brakes and suspension. If you would still feel the same. Probably about the discomfort but maybe not in terms of the performance
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post #83 of 96 (permalink) Old 12-15-2015, 12:05 AM
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^Interesting question. You can see in my signature below all the mods on my Elise. I think my suspension is pretty well sorted for a naturally aspirated car: Nitrons, monoballs, RAC monolites, R888s, aggressive alignment, etc. People have also commented on how my car, with the upgraded motor mounts, stiffened shifter subframe, and new shifter cables, shifts really well. Car also has DS2500 brake pads, so it's a decent street/track hybrid pad, stopping power is good. Stainless lines and Girodiscs too.

Is it the very fastest Elise that can be built? No, of course not, but I do feel like it's very very well sorted for my requirements. No offense or lack of modesty intended. The car could be a better track weapon with aero, more expensive dampers, wider/stickier tires, and depending on who you ask, more power. Considered force induction for a long time after driving a few such cars, but ultimately decided I liked the purity and simplicity of n/a. The beauty of a n/a Elise is that you can string it out on the street all the time w/o getting into trouble.

Just some background on where I'm coming from in my comparo.

'05 Lotus Elise: RS134 Monolites, Nitron Singles, Monoballs, V2 arms, RTD2 brace, Innovative motor mounts, V2 tank, GPan, Larini 8", TransCables, LumosHID, GiroDisc, Ferodo DS2500, etc.
'16 Porsche Cayman GT4
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post #84 of 96 (permalink) Old 12-21-2015, 11:15 PM
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I get how much nicer the suspension upgrades and brakes make it but nothing will give it that supercar feel like 300+hp in a 1900lbs car. It takes your breath away. Your car set up and the upgrades you did really need to meet the horsepower not only that it can now handle buts almost asks for. 165whp is a joke. It will always keep this car feeling like some kind of toy thingy thing

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post #85 of 96 (permalink) Old 04-06-2016, 05:03 AM
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Anymore feedback and comparisons of the GT4 compared to an Exige or Evora?
GT4 has caught my eye

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post #86 of 96 (permalink) Old 09-28-2016, 04:48 PM
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My .02c. If youre going to the track get a v6 cup, it can hunt down Gt4's with ease and will cost 1/3 to run. Yes you cant drive it on the street, but then you cant drive most moderns near their limits to the street anyways.

If its street a Gt4 or regular cayman is just fine. But nothing is going to feel as connected and as viceral as a lotus.
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post #87 of 96 (permalink) Old 09-28-2016, 06:05 PM
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My .02c. If youre going to the track get a v6 cup, it can hunt down Gt4's with ease and will cost 1/3 to run. Yes you cant drive it on the street, but then you cant drive most moderns near their limits to the street anyways.

If its street a Gt4 or regular cayman is just fine. But nothing is going to feel as connected and as viceral as a lotus.
Even goes for the Evora, driving my 2010 Cayman S a 2010 Evora caught my eye on the side of the road (Turned out to be the dealership but really couldn't tell) After several test drives then driving both back to back I ended up driving an Evora home that night. I am a Porsche guy though and will own another soon enough but the Lotus was special.
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post #88 of 96 (permalink) Old 10-20-2016, 02:13 AM
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I drove the new 911 C4S the other day and i still feel my lotus is more fun to drive.
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post #89 of 96 (permalink) Old 10-22-2016, 06:46 AM
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Last weekend myself ('08 Exige-S) and another Lotus Talk member (Elise with BOE 300) got to play with a GT4. I love the car. I was REALLY surprised at the long gearing, but I am sure its a fun car to drive + high build quality. $ on the high side. Not an easy choice for sure but I know I if I were in the market today, now that it is available, I would choose the Evora 400. But I am biased.



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post #90 of 96 (permalink) Old 08-08-2017, 10:47 AM
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Last track day at the glen there were a few Gt4's. While drivers are the biggest factor I am not holdiung myself out as one of the greats, so lets look at the differences in the cars. Frankly the exige v6 eats cayman Gt4s for breakfast pretty much everywhere, corners, braking even accelration, its two different performance orbits on track. On the other hand the gap in performance to a 991 Gt3 is also huge in the Gt3's favor.

As tot he cayman chassis. I ran with a few 300k fully track built stripped cayam race cars, they are in a different orbit too.

While I am probably the biggest proponant of a stick for road driving, paddles undoubtably confer too many advantges on track to ignore.

if i were buying a street track car that spent a good deal of time on street it would be stick for sure, for track only you cant ignore paddles.
Now if they make the rumored GT4Rs with Gt3 motor, that one would be hard to pass up.

The exige on track, feels like a track car. The cayman like a fast street car. GTRs and the exige seem matched for 3 laps before the GTR inveitably starts to fade.
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post #91 of 96 (permalink) Old 08-08-2017, 11:04 AM
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Vettes, the c6 z06 is no match for the exige anywhere. The new C7 z06 clearly moved the handlign game on, still slower than the exige through corners, which makes its power advantage null on straights due to corner exit speed. Their one adavantage is comming out of a slow corner uphill like coming out of the toe of the boot at the glen. On 10 lap run, my pick of the vette offerings would be the grand sport, its lighter weight to a z06 makes it more consistent and probably faster over 10 or so laps..

Dont care what the mgazine hot lap tests say, the 991 Gt3 is in class of its own on track. Or maybe GT3 porche drivers are just that much better than anyone in the vettes. But realisticaly over a few laps the Gt3 is clearly superior.

The previous gen z28 seemed to be nowhere near pace.

Still you basic 70k build stripped suspesion aero etc e36 bmw pure track car is hard to beat.

Where the tlotus and porches really shine is they are turn key reliable. No pure built track car really offers that for the weekend warrior. Given the effort and expese to get the track, not to mention effort to keep a car track in track trim you simply cant beat turn key. Tires pads and fluids with no lost days is key unless you have a shop/team.
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post #92 of 96 (permalink) Old 08-08-2017, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Vantage View Post
GT4 is a lot better of a dual use car, feels like a quality item. It does all the right things dynamically and even has a decent amount of feedback for the driver. Having a Lotus, I am surprised how much I like the steering. Sounds amazing too. Feels like a $100k car.

An Elige feels like a toy in comparison. But a very FUN toy. More nimble and just puts a smile on my face. The driver connection / feedback is ramped up. More noises, more texture from the road, more required of the driver. The downside is that I would not drive my Lotus on a road trip, though have done so (LA to Monterrey). Also daily driving on a consistent basis, no way (for me). Shifter and brakes aren't as good as GT4.

Maybe I am getting old, but the GT4 is such a quality item, that maybe 80% of the time I would grab keys to the GT4. But on the right day, there is still NOTHING like a Lotus in terms of response and feel. Oh and let's not forget that tracking an Elige is next to free in terms of consumables.

It is kind of funny that for the 10+ years of owning the Lotus, my father has periodically commented that maybe I should sell it. But I always said no way, there will never be a car like this for a long time, if ever. Last weekend we go for a drive in the Lotus after maybe a month and he told me the Lotus is too unique, never sell it.
I recently picked up an Exige S to add to the collection. I also own a Cayman GT4. I'm thankful for the opportunity to compare both cars back to back. I have tracked several cars including this Exige (with Nitrons and an ECU tune) and a Cayman GT4 (with basic alignment modifications for the track). The GT4 and Exige reward the driver in a way that few other cars can. For the GT4, this is a huge achievement because it is also a car that can cruise for hundreds of miles comfortably.

The GT4 steering is precise and offers great feel for an assisted steering rack. The Exige still provides more information through the wheel. Most of this information is not necessary on the street, but on the track and in slippery road conditions, the extra granularity is appreciated. The steering rack ratio on the GT4 is also more suited to cruising than that of the Exige.

The powertrain feels smoother and more precise in the GT4 than in the Exige. As Vantage mentioned, the GT4 feels like a quality item in this aspect. The Exige is more eager to accelerate with the supercharger. Both cars are easy to modulate and offer great power even when shifting before their maximum potential, yet both cars reward driving to redline with even more power. Unlike the Cayman, the Exige has quirks such as hunting for the correct idle when stopped or surging when driving at very low speeds. The tunability and gearing are better on the Exige.

I look forward to adding more thoughts as I gain further experience in both cars!
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post #93 of 96 (permalink) Old 08-08-2017, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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Having owned a 986 Boxster and then driven a 981 and 991 immediately after the 986, I was not impressed with the electric power steering compared to the feedback that the hydraulic system provided. But I understand Porsche programs each of these systems differently for the car, so maybe the GT4 specifically is better. IMO, you can never get too much steering info, even on the street so the manual rack on the Elise will always be my preference.
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post #94 of 96 (permalink) Old 08-08-2017, 03:46 PM
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Having owned a 986 Boxster and then driven a 981 and 991 immediately after the 986, I was not impressed with the electric power steering compared to the feedback that the hydraulic system provided. But I understand Porsche programs each of these systems differently for the car, so maybe the GT4 specifically is better. IMO, you can never get too much steering info, even on the street so the manual rack on the Elise will always be my preference.
I can make a direct comparison as I have a GT4 and Exige as weekend cars and my daily driver is a 991S. I also have seat time in my friend's 981S race car.

The GT4's steering is significantly better than the 9x1 chassis cars that you mentioned. In addition to better programming, there are other factors. The front suspension borrowed from the GT3, Michelin Cup 2 tires, and optional ceramic brakes (which are much lighter than the standard brakes) also help make the GT4's steering more functional and pleasurable than that of base 991 or 981 cars.

I have an S2000 as well which also has an electronic rack. Like the 991, the precision is great, but the system is devoid of feel. The driver must steer with the information from the seat of his pants. Therefore, the steering on the S2000 is okay to use when driving on the limit, but it can be vague in normal driving. I suspect this is why the car is trecherous for drivers that have heavy inputs on the controls.

In conclusion, the steering on the Elise offers more feel and is thus more pleasurable for fun driving. However, the GT4 gives almost all of that information yet hides some of the vibrations from imperfect tire balancing and rough roads. That can be superior for non-limit driving. I do not like to feel tire shimmy, no matter how slight. Therefore, it is a close match. Each of the systems has advantages and drawbacks.

Last edited by smurfm3; 08-08-2017 at 03:57 PM.
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post #95 of 96 (permalink) Old 08-09-2017, 10:35 AM
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Here are the issues comparing the GT4 (in my case) to the Evora 400.

At first, I considered a GT4 as my ideal car. Unfortunately, none were available as they were sold out and there is no replacement. So you go to the used market. The lowest asking I found for a GT4 was $107K. Some are asking higher, and maybe some are selling for less at this point, but no matter how you slice it, you're buying a used car for more money than a 400. And, you have to find one to drive to be sure it's really what you want, not so easy.

So I drove a new 718S. Compared to the S, the Evora is more fun, and optioned out, the Cayman really doesn't offer much of a price advantage anyway. So you can hunt for a used GT4 or buy a new Cayman S but in either case what should be an apples to apples comparison becomes more apples/bananas.

And then there is the question of if the GT4 will retain its growing stature as a new model collectible. Because if you're making the decision based on the GT4 being an appreciating asset (as so many owners seem to think it is) then every mile you drive it makes it somewhat less precious. If you don't care about that, then the comparison to the Lotus has to take into account the fact that you bought a used car in the Porsche. And dealers don't seem to have GT4s, they're all private sales or so it seems.

Between the Cayman S (or a new GTS) and a base 991 911, I preferred the Lotus as an object of lust and a car to drive. You give up Porsche's more tailored finishes, their wider dealer network and "known quantity" benefits, but you get a car that performs as well, feels better (to my mind) and is about as useful on the road. And the Lotus has some bling value neither of the Porsches can really match.

Back to the OP, the GT4 really is in a different slot having morphed from a special edition Porsche to drive into a semi-collectible that makes an argument for itself to remain a garage queen. I didn't want to be annoyed at myself every time I drove my car so even though I wanted to buy a Porsche (the Grand Sport was very appealing too) in the end, the Lotus made a lot of sense to me taking into account the objective and subjective factors. Also, I got a deal on my car so instead of paying full boat, I paid about what it would have cost me to get a loaded 718 Cayman S or maybe a stripper 991 Carrera. And compared to either of those, the Lotus had a lot more appeal to me.

Lew
'17 Evora 400 MT
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post #96 of 96 (permalink) Old 08-09-2017, 10:51 AM
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Interesting observation about the Gt4 being essentialy sold out. There were a few for sale at dealers once prod ended. Seems delaers ordered for stock fully loaded cars and the Gt4 was nto quite the "collectable" they thought it would be. It also seems very likely that there will be anext better Gt4 and even Gt4 Rs. Also porche is saying the Gt3 and Gt2 will not be production limited, which is great.

I never understood buildign a track capable car and then limiting supply so collectors who cant and dotn really drive can preserve value.

Porche as part of VW(with diesel losses) needs to generate profits. Hopefully that means more Gt4 cayamans and 911Gt3s for those who actualy want to drive and use the cars.

Corvete is going to have a mid engiend model.

At Lotus i hear the next elige is going volvo power, so between 340-450hp dependign on application. Plus a shortened evora morphed into a esprit with v8 power.


The game moves on, if lotus stays light and feelsome it will have very competitive products with a usp none of the otehrs can match.
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