New Corvette: 495hp mid-engine, Under $60k - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #41 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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The base C8 will be serious competition for every sports car manufacturer on the planet. Under $60K for a high performance mid-engine sports car......there really is nothing else to buy. Certainly got my attention.
If it doesn't drive terribly (and I feel like I can reasonably assume it does not), I think the C8 is really going to become something of the "default" choice when people ask "I'd like a sports car, which one should I get?", because at that price point, the questions turns to "why not get one (compared to the alternatives)?". And I say this as a member of the (much maligned) millennial generation who had never been interested in the Corvette (because hawaiian-shirt-old-guy car).

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Good luck getting even a base one without the dealer giving you a market adjustment of +10-15k markup until they've sold enough to make them common again.
To be fair, that's pretty much the case with every car that has high demand. Two years on, the Civic Type R still has dealers doing market adjustments, asking up to 10k over MSRP. A less exaggerated version of this was even seen when the PT Cruiser was released.

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post #42 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 10:18 PM
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The below $60k starting price is a complete knock-out... where else can you get this bang/buck in what should be a good handling mid-engined car.

I'm not a fan of the styling, but it continues Corvette themes, so will please existing customers which I'm sure is important for volumes.

The weight (both absolute & increase over the C7) is disappointing - this goes opposite to industry trends. The Chevy engine is compact & light compared to quad cam / FI European rivals, DCT is the norm for the past decade, as is alloy chassis structure... given all this something closer to 1400 KG / 3100 lbs (wet) should have been possible on a clean-sheet, new gen car .

As GM want to sell this version globally, there are some other considerations. i.e. RHD (Ford already did this with the Mustang & gained extra sales) & the fact that the engine size will be heavily taxed in many car markets such as Europe / China. Buyers in the $200/300k sector dont care about these taxes, but ones in the $60k sector will. These taxes normally continue after the 1st owner, hence used values get hit.

I dont think Lotus will be massively worried about the new Corvette - its still very American market centric. If thats what the customer wants, they'll buy a Corvette. Lotus has always taken a different route - smaller, lighter, more efficient. I'm sure the bench-mark competitors for the next Lotus sports car is closer to Porsche Boxster / Cayman & the Alpine A110... all at a similar $60k price point.

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post #43 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 10:53 PM
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The below $60k starting price is a complete knock-out... where else can you get this bang/buck in what should be a good handling mid-engined car.

I'm not a fan of the styling, but it continues Corvette themes, so will please existing customers which I'm sure is important for volumes.

The weight (both absolute & increase over the C7) is disappointing - this goes opposite to industry trends. The Chevy engine is compact & light compared to quad cam / FI European rivals, DCT is the norm for the past decade, as is alloy chassis structure... given all this something closer to 1400 KG / 3100 lbs (wet) should have been possible on a clean-sheet, new gen car .

As GM want to sell this version globally, there are some other considerations. i.e. RHD (Ford already did this with the Mustang & gained extra sales) & the fact that the engine size will be heavily taxed in many car markets such as Europe / China. Buyers in the $200/300k sector dont care about these taxes, but ones in the $60k sector will. These taxes normally continue after the 1st owner, hence used values get hit.

I dont think Lotus will be massively worried about the new Corvette - its still very American market centric. If thats what the customer wants, they'll buy a Corvette. Lotus has always taken a different route - smaller, lighter, more efficient. I'm sure the bench-mark competitors for the next Lotus sports car is closer to Porsche Boxster / Cayman & the Alpine A110... all at a similar $60k price point.
I agree, $60k for a mid-engined car that not only performs but also LOOKS like a supercar, it's something of a game-changer and puts it in a league of it's own.
I read one interview with an exec, who mentioned they've got RHD ready as well, ..and car buyers in Europe seem to view some American cars (and beer!?) a bit more exotic as well, so no doubt it'll do well out there as well.

and with it's more exotic looks, imagine it'll finally sway quite a few American buyers who've always viewed Corvettes as well, Corvettes.
there's no doubt that this will cut into sales of all other mid-engined cars, particularly those in the same price range like the Cayman, Ever and GTRs.and American muscle cars..and then we'll see what happens when they release a hybrid version!

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post #44 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 02:38 AM
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To be fair, that's pretty much the case with every car that has high demand. Two years on, the Civic Type R still has dealers doing market adjustments, asking up to 10k over MSRP.
$10K? Try $25K over MSRP. I couldn't believe it. I was going to buy a Type R for my son, but I told him there was no way it was worth $60K. I got him an STI Limited and he's been more than happy with it.

At $60-70K there really won't be any competition for the C8 to speak of. I personally want to see what the C8 Z06 brings to the party. I can't imagine what the C7 Z06 and ZR1 owners are feeling right about now.

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post #45 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 04:50 AM
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I ordered an Evora GT over a a new Corvette. For me, I very briefly cross shopped, but found the cars to be different and they really did not compete with each other. I drove the C7, it was there, it drove and felt (or lack thereof) like most cars. It seemed more touring than sport. I expected the C8 to be heavier, more refined, more digital. I wanted an analog car, as new cars go it was an Evora. For me the Evora was competing with used car options more than a C7/C8.

Another significant factor for me was exclusivity. I see Corvettes daily (unless there is snow). You pay for exclusivity, I was willing to and did pay up for that. But then again, all the extra features you get in Corvettes (and P-cars) that arguably make them a better value, also make them heavier and/or more digitized without adding to the driving experience (although some things will improve the performance numbers). So no value for me in that.

I'm looking forward to my Evora GT. I am also in the minority in my thinking and preferences.
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post #46 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 04:53 AM
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Good luck getting even a base one without the dealer giving you a market adjustment of +10-15k markup until they've sold enough to make them common again.
I'm on the Corvette forum and there are many dealers that will sell at MSRP at launch, I think Kerbeck in atlantic city was one of them. Knowing GM though it would be better to skip the first year anyway.
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post #47 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 06:43 AM
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I have a 2014 C7 convertible, Z51, 7-sp stick, as a daily driver. I absolutely love it. My first Corvette ever, and over 5 years of ownership I've never not enjoyed driving it. It's an amazingly competent and quick car - from Auto-X to 1000 mile trips. Nothing has broken in 5 years. If you've never driven one with the adjustable suspension, you wouldn't believe how it transforms the car. In Touring mode, it rides as nice as the wife's minivan. In Track mode, it feels a lot like a heavier Elise. I certainly see more of them around than Lotus's, but it still turns heads and I still look back at it when I park it.

That said, it's nothing at all like driving my Elise. Which is totally amazing for all sorts of different reasons well understood by anyone here. They are completely different in so many ways, and I think the same will be true for the C8. But if I had to get rid of all my toys, and was only able to keep one car to use for everything, it would be the 'vette. Moving away from the "add lightness" and the purity and simplicity of the Elise (or an old Elan or Europa), and I think you run right into C8 competitiveness - which will be a challenge.
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post #48 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 07:40 AM
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I watched a few videos last night about the C8 and decided instead of paying the markup, or even MSRP on a mass produced car that'll be plenty common in a year or two, is to wait for one of my car's lease to run out within the year, then get a C8 next summer. You're right, the 2nd year is better anyway.

I do love the car though and GM did something pretty incredible, even if they had to kill the Camaro to give its tail to the C8.

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Good luck getting even a base one without the dealer giving you a market adjustment of +10-15k markup until they've sold enough to make them common again.
I'm on the Corvette forum and there are many dealers that will sell at MSRP at launch, I think Kerbeck in atlantic city was one of them. Knowing GM though it would be better to skip the first year anyway.

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post #49 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:09 AM
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its still a GM product, time will tell
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post #50 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:22 AM
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build slots already for sale on ebay

There's a dealer with an early build spot listed on ebay now, $99K

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post #51 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 08:51 AM
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Looks like a lot of bang for the buck, no doubt. I'm not a fan of the styling, as it looks like kind of a hot mess of different design elements. It may look better in some colors vs. others.

Robert Cumberford did a styling analysis that brought up some interesting points:

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2...E87D671592129A

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post #52 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 09:24 AM
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At $60-70K there really won't be any competition for the C8 to speak of. I personally want to see what the C8 Z06 brings to the party. I can't imagine what the C7 Z06 and ZR1 owners are feeling right about now.

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Said every corvette or Porsche owner of a previous generation..... :P Their go-to-market strategy is really, really smart. Launch the new base model car. Scrape off everyone that must have the new car. Release the Hi-Po Z06 and scrape off the high-end that will either be people waiting more or base model upgrades. For the people on the fence, next comes the Grand Sport. All the Z0-06 looks, wheels and tires, with the base engine. Honestly the Grand Sport is the only version in my experience that has enough brakes and cooling for my driving. Last but not least, go out with a bang with the ultimate Corvette, the ZR-1. Run out all your parts you've made on a limited run halo car to hold people until the next gen comes out.

I had a C6Z and sold it long ago. My wife bought a 2012 C6Z 100th AE with carbon package and it is a fantastic car thus far.

The 2 biggest rumors for the C8Z are 5.X liter Twin-turbo or another supercharged motor. I wouldn't be crazy about the twin turbo. Probably I would be more likely to get a GS and mod the NA motor.... ZR1 is rumored to be the 5.xL TT with a front Electric motor and battery pack. We'll see......


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post #53 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 06:15 PM
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There's a dealer with an early build spot listed on ebay now, $99K
Guess I was wrong about dealer greed and the $10-15k markup... I under estimated them by quite a bit.

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post #54 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 06:52 PM
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I actually don't see the C8 as much of a market departure from the C7. Sure the engine is now in a more "exotic" place, but the C6 and C7 have always been competitive with much more exotic contemporaries. And the fact that they're all over the place proves it a popular formula. I actually don't see this as a game changer, just another evolution of the formula.
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post #55 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-20-2019, 07:13 PM
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this is the final nail of the NSX coffin. (made in US, over priced, over complicated)

it has also already made the Supra (dealer markup over 80,000+ USD) completely obsolete before it get general mass release in 2020.
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post #56 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 05:58 AM
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i applaud GM for getting serious about this car. it may be the only sports car they produce very soon. I like the car from certain view points but not so much from others. I live 30 miles from Bowling green Ky. Yep. Imagine how many I will see on the roads. I love my Evora. I do not street race so I don't care that the c8 is much faster. I want a car that is unique and here in Ky there are very few Lotus cars on the road. I am a manual trans guy as well so I will not go back to an auto box. So at $139,000 I wonder how the ZR1 owners feel right now???? I love my yellow Evora S and I may tune it a little to get closer to 400 hp but that is a fun factor only thing. I would take the looks of the Evora over the C8 all day long.
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post #57 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 08:04 AM
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It looks like George Barris customized a Ferrari 360
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post #58 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 08:42 AM
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Surely, with a clean sheet of paper designers could have made the C8 look more exotic without effecting cost but part of the initiative was to make it readily identifiable as a Corvette. Primarily because of that, they compromised the appearance as the styling is rather derivative and mainstream considering it's a mid engine sports car. This new Corvette though, will move the bar for what is generally considered "exotic" dragging that term more towards the ordinary once a few thousand are on the road and become commonplace. Thus other much more exclusive and expensive mid engine exotica will seem less unique. One can imagine in a few years some kid might ask:

"Hey dad, what kind of car is that?"

"Son, that's a Ferrari."

"Oh, OK, just another Corvette wannabe."
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post #59 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019, 07:39 PM
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$10K? Try $25K over MSRP. I couldn't believe it. I was going to buy a Type R for my son, but I told him there was no way it was worth $60K. I got him an STI Limited and he's been more than happy with it.

At $60-70K there really won't be any competition for the C8 to speak of. I personally want to see what the C8 Z06 brings to the party. I can't imagine what the C7 Z06 and ZR1 owners are feeling right about now.

San
That was my exact thought. The C8 Z06 will be an absolute monster.

That being said, it is still a little portly. There is going to be a huge market for lightweight parts for these. Not sure how thick the fiberglass is, but there may be some opportunity to put them on quite a diet.
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post #60 of 168 (permalink) Old 07-22-2019, 06:55 AM
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The looks are fine, its not like the 720 or 488 are lookers themselvs.
To me the issue is weight and stiffness. The last great vette imo was the C6 z06, at 3150 with a real hipo na motor it looked like the vette team was serious. Then on the C7 they got lazy and put in lots of cheap supercharged to overcome the bloat. in the end they had to make the Gs just to have a car that could live on track.

Now the C8 is heavier still. Its like last decades supercar, the aventador, heavy powerful exotic, whereas the future is loosing weight.
Also as many others have said, vettes despite their paper numbers drive like Gt car's, not suprising given the lack of tub stiffness and the customer demographic. I mean no one accuses the vette of being a precision tool, despite their capability. So will this one steer with precision of aeuro car, what will the steering feel like.

So now we have yet a heavier vette, that ccording the chevy is 10% stiffer than the last noodle. So its a vette, just this time the engine is in the middle, but its still a vette with all the good and bad that implies.

Im intereted to see if they make a lighetr more driver focussed one, like porche is able to stretch the bandwith from a 3600lbs turbo to a 3200lbs Gt3.

can the vette team make this car 300lbs lighter at 100k, do they even care. Or are we just going to see the super vette with a 1000hp hybrid setup as wow factor but ultimately a useless dead end like the NSX.

Hopefully the vette team is takign a page out of the porche playbook and offering everyhting from base cars to huge pwer cars to GT3 track type cars off one platform. Yeah Gt3s dont sell in huge numbers, but that is the car porche hangs it s hat on, it give the 911 range credibility and that 911 credibility is how they sell all thgose rebadgesd audi suv's.

Can the C8 be really made to dance on track and still be road legal, thats the formula for me. Given how much lighter the light evora's are now, Im guessing for 30k vette can loose 3000lbs, theres probably 70lbs to loose in thsoe electric seats alone.


The Evora is dead, it should have started with the 400. By now its just outclassed by porche and even chevy, nice as it is there is no no usp.
That car should never have been a quasi 2+2, it should have been shorter lower and lighter.
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