New Corvette: 495hp mid-engine, Under $60k - Page 8 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #141 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-02-2019, 10:36 AM
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Agree, in the past the base corvette is a street car more then a sports car. GM even stated itís not a sports car, I canít recall which auto magazine compared grandsport - zo6 to the race car, huge gap in the cars lap times.... which i feel is why the c8 is designed to carry two sets of golf clubs.... made for their average buyer who is probably 60+ yrs old, always wanted a vette and use it as a 100% street car

Itís also always been a bargain sports car, producing acceleration and lap times comparable to cars costing 2x+ its price which will continue with the c8. The bar for all vehicles is raised with every new generation and yea, it will be really interesting to see what they can do with the C8. To me it will still have some of the typical (and crappy) GM interior parts, design and layout with the typical kinda meh driving experience.

I do not think this will affect lotus or any other company any more then the c7 or c6 affected those companies.
I think alot of this depends on your definition of "sports car" vs "street car." IMHO, The Elise & Exige are in a different world from Evora/911 and even Corvette. The Elige is like a sportbike with doors. However, it feels like a Camry compared to my XP Lotus. I love the Elise for blasting down 1 lane bridges with the Alloy Aircars following me. However, to go for a trip, a bit less road noise and comfort is not unwelcome. Corvettes are still fun in the twisties and on the track, just not as pure. When looking at a compromise, there are alot of reasons there are SO MANY MORE CORVETTES than Lotuses. That does not take away from the Lotus, just shows it is more singular of purpose. More purity. The right tool for the job. It is up to everyone to decide what is right for them. There is no wrong answer.
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post #142 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-02-2019, 02:35 PM
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If someone is weighing between a C8 and a Lotus Elise and/or Exige, then they're just clueless and should buy the C8. It's a no brainer! It's not as cut and dry when deciding between a New Lotus Evora versus a C8. IMHO

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post #143 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-02-2019, 02:52 PM
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You can't really bash the C8. GM's intent is to sell as many as possible, not to satisfy a relatively small niche in the market (cue manual transmission). The C8 compared to other mid engine cars in very large and heavy, nearly a foot longer and over 300 pounds heavier (maybe closer to 500 wet) than an Evora. (One mid engine car that comes to mind that is even heavier is the NSX but what do you expect with twin turbos, 3 electric motors, batteries, and all wheel drive?) Those who are expecting a lighter version C8 with significant weight savings like the C6 Z06, consider that car had an aluminum chassis. This alone accounted for a 136 pound weight saving over the standard model's steel frame. All C8 models have aluminum chassis as standard. According to Wikipedia the current Z06 weighs 176 pounds more than a base car. Saving weight with carbon fiber fenders, hood and solid non-removable carbon roof are going to cost $$$$ and I can't foresee engineers decontenting many standard features or removing sound deadening to save a few pounds. That would turn off the typical Corvette customer who wants to have it all.

Despite going to a mid engine layout, C8 dimensions have grown to accommodate as many body sizes as possible. Are you 6' 7' and 300 pounds? No problem. Its the swiss army knife of mid engine cars -- tries to do everything --speed, handling, comfort, storage, luxury, safety, affordability, cachet . . . . In a couple years you are likely to see more C8's on the road than C7's. It's not the type of car that is going to be engaging to drive like a Lotus, simply due to it's bulk. Porsche and Lotus are always going to be more "connected with the road". Suffice to say that would almost be interpreted as a design flaw in the Corvette.

The C8 hasn't yet proved itself a practical weekend track car where the Evora has already done so. We will find out how well the C8 holds up and manages consumables like brakes and tires. Corvette buyers for the most part could care less. They are buying a Corvette because, well, it's a Corvette! Gotta admit, it's pretty tempting for the price, but by the time you add options that could add up to an extra $20K. Once the aura of the Corvette honeymoon is over and there are thousands on the road you can rest assured that your Evora won't be seen at every street light and it will still draw as much attention as it does today. It will always be a special car. A base C8 Corvette? Not so much. If you want exclusivity, maybe hold out for the street replica of the official Indy 500 pace car next Spring (just a prediction). The convertible, already leaked, may be out by then. Or wait for the Z06 or Zora and pay out the nose. (It's still going to be heavy.)
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post #144 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-02-2019, 04:43 PM
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I drove a 2019 new Vantage, only with automatic. I disliked that concept, but the auto was good and surprised me a tiny bit.

Months later thought that if I wanted the Vantage to be a different experience from my other cars, automatic wouldn't be the worst idea.

AM has decided to offer Vantage (nicest car I ever drove) with a stick. And, get this, that model weighs >200 lbs less!

This car is too heavy and could certainly stand to shed that.
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post #145 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 08:40 PM
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Saw one at my local dealer. All options and colors were displayed on separate racks. I know exactly how I'd want mine.
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post #146 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 10:22 PM
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The only comparisons to the C8 people here are referencing are twice the price (or more), lighter and/or produce significantly less horsepower. Cheap, light, fast, pick any two.

It's a testament to the C8 team that everyone is trying to justify the price, features and performance of their vehicles. Is there any model that comes close to a price of $60-80K with 495hp, multiple pickup dry sump oil system and 0-60 in 2.8 seconds? It will almost certainly pull over 1G as well. Like it or not, the C8 will be tough to beat.

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post #147 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 03:41 AM
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Notorious, how did the looks hold up in person? Anything you liked more or less? Any other thoughts? details, details!!! :P


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post #148 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 03:46 AM
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The only comparisons to the C8 people here are referencing are twice the price (or more), lighter and/or produce significantly less horsepower. Cheap, light, fast, pick any two.

It's a testament to the C8 team that everyone is trying to justify the price, features and performance of their vehicles. Is there any model that comes close to a price of $60-80K with 495hp, multiple pickup dry sump oil system and 0-60 in 2.8 seconds? It will almost certainly pull over 1G as well. Like it or not, the C8 will be tough to beat.

San
100% spot-on, San! If nothing else, this will put pricing pressure on folks above OR cause them to up their game which is good for everyone. As a second note, I find that I am looking closer at the MotorTrend Figure-8 test. It sort of reminds me of the SpeedStop at Ultima's Search for Ultimate Streetcar. The car has to do everything well in a very short space. Accelerate, brake, corner entry, steady-state turn, corner exit, repeat. It is very repeatable and less driver dependent than 3 minute or 7 minute hot-laps. Perhaps the similarity to AutoXing is what I like. I think the Z51 car "PROPERLY SETUP" will CRUSH this test.


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post #149 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 12:09 PM
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Notorious, how did the looks hold up in person? Anything you liked more or less? Any other thoughts? details, details!!! :P
The front looks gorgeous from a low angle. The front looks very much still Corvette-ish from the top and head on.

The side is wider than pix show, like how the Evora rear hump noticeably flares out. The proportions work very well, definitely Italian more than American.

The rear looks better than pix. It's wider and not as thin or blocky as the Camaro, fortunately. Also, the tail lights work well in design aesthetics. They light up in that curved shape like a McLaren taillight. Looks so much better than I ever expected.

The trunk is big enough. It will hold a good 5-05 140 pound person if you pack it right. The engine bay actually had a lot of space to stuff in twin turbos or a super charger, which they probably did on purpose for the ZR-1 or Z06 variants.

The interior is very very cozy, I'll put it that way. I'm 5-09 and 140 pounds. It is super snug and I didn't have to adjust anything to make it fit me. Everything is contoured to fit you like a cocoon almost.

The only way I can describe it is it felt like a custom contoured cockpit from a tiny star fighter vehicle, or one of those arcade games where you fit inside a tight cockpit and simulate air combat. It's not too tight or uncomfortable but it is cozy. That was the highlight for me how well it fit with all the controls at my fingertips. I've been in helicopter and aircraft cockpits which didn't have as good of a snug fit and feel as this cockpit.

The options look very good. Seats are high quality. Wheels look good but not gawdy. The paint colors, caliper colors, interior colors, all work well.

I gotta say, they did a great job on this one. I just hope they worked out all the gremlins and first year issues won't give them an excuse for all the haters to say they should've stayed with the traditional design.
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post #150 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 10:49 AM
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Food for thought.
One way or another Lotus needs to find its niche, and its not where the vette or cayman sits.


https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/cayman...-a-bit-special
Specs look quite similar to the Evora..... they need a strong marketing push and aggressive pricing for the new models or Lotus will be known as a sporty SUV company rather than a sports car company.

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post #151 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 03:43 PM
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I have seen them at the GM Tech Center over the last couple years or so, but I pulled up along side on yesterday on the road. It doesn't encourage me to sell my Elise.

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post #152 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 04:22 PM
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I have seen them at the GM Tech Center over the last couple years or so, but I pulled up along side on yesterday on the road. It doesn't encourage me to sell my Elise.
One of my favorite memories of interning at the GM tech center for a summer was getting to see two '95 Grand Sports parked in a garage on the grounds a year before it was introduced. One coupe and one convertible. I had no idea what that was but could tell it was something different.
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post #153 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 06:15 AM
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New Corvette: 495hp mid-engine, Under $60k

I just hope the C8 crushes it and gets Lotus and their dealer to find a better starting price point. $90k for an Evora? Itís ridiculous and all you are doing is buying something that there is little of for that price point. Thatís the only justification. It needs to be a $50k sports car and Lotus would sell triple the amount. Oh well... we many times learn the hard way.

I remember chatting with Simpkin and the group at the factory years ago when they were headed towards a new Esprit. I recall they wanted 500hp, spartan interior, 3200lb for $250k....
Wow... now that number sounds so ridiculous and Iím so glad I didnít make a dumb mistake of putting money down. Never came to fruition but C8 is teaching us all how rediculous the price is on many of those +$150k exotics. Itís just to have something different. Build quality is usually worse but... Iím sometimes caught with the bug of getting something rare that makes no sense justifying price....


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post #154 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 09:04 AM
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I just hope the C8 crushes it and gets Lotus and their dealer to find a better starting price point. $90k for an Evora? Itís ridiculous and all you are doing is buying something that there is little of for that price point. Thatís the only justification. It needs to be a $50k sports car and Lotus would sell triple the amount. Oh well... we many times learn the hard way.

I remember chatting with Simpkin and the group at the factory years ago when they were headed towards a new Esprit. I recall they wanted 500hp, spartan interior, 3200lb for $250k....
Wow... now that number sounds so ridiculous and Iím so glad I didnít make a dumb mistake of putting money down. Never came to fruition but C8 is teaching us all how rediculous the price is on many of those +$150k exotics. Itís just to have something different. Build quality is usually worse but... Iím sometimes caught with the bug of getting something rare that makes no sense justifying price....


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Design and Uniqueness are items with value. Otherwise everyone on this forum would be driving a miata or MR2. Maybe with a supercharger. We don't. There are tangible and Intangible reasons for that. Additionally, by that logic, why wouldn't one just purchase a ZL1-1le for $60k?


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post #155 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 09:22 AM
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Well...THIS didn't take long...

Wonder if it will show up on wrecked exotics website.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/08/12/...sh/?yptr=yahoo

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post #156 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 10:13 AM
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....Which forces me in ponder: Will Chevy dealers start discounting (below MSRP) once the novelty of the 2020 intro wears off?

Its hardly a fair comparison, but right now on the 2019s vettes, I'm seeing anywhere from 5 to 10 thou cut off MSRP (60ish) just on a web search.
With no timetable from LTS for an open Evora or the return of the Elise to the US, I'm going to have to buy a 'bridge' car --something sporting and open, and maybe the 2020 vette is IT....but abs not paying MSRP much less msrp PLUS adm.
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post #157 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 10:28 AM
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....Which forces me in ponder: Will Chevy dealers start discounting (below MSRP) once the novelty of the 2020 intro wears off?
Sure, it's like any new shiny toy...the first adopters pay the premium, then once everyone who wants one has one, the discounts come along. Happened fairly quickly with the Elige.
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post #158 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 04:52 PM
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post #159 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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100% spot-on, San! If nothing else, this will put pricing pressure on folks above OR cause them to up their game which is good for everyone. As a second note, I find that I am looking closer at the MotorTrend Figure-8 test. It sort of reminds me of the SpeedStop at Ultima's Search for Ultimate Streetcar. The car has to do everything well in a very short space. Accelerate, brake, corner entry, steady-state turn, corner exit, repeat. It is very repeatable and less driver dependent than 3 minute or 7 minute hot-laps. Perhaps the similarity to AutoXing is what I like. I think the Z51 car "PROPERLY SETUP" will CRUSH this test.
I'm very amused you mentioned this test because MT recently published a list of 16 older and 15 new performance cars outperformed by the 4th Generation Prius, which was met by people on the internet throwing a bit of a fit. In all seriousness though; the TNGA platform chassis is really good.

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Additionally, by that logic, why wouldn't one just purchase a ZL1-1le for $60k?
Because we like to be able to see out of our cars?

Drives a Prius (clearly knows nothing about cars).

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post #160 of 167 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 04:15 AM
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Pricing is out. https://www.chevrolet.com/upcoming-v...te/2lt-pricing

Stripper 1LT is $59,995
2LT starts at $67,295
3LT starts at $71,995 but includes GT2 seats($1500 option on 2LT)
Z51 package is $5,000
Mag Ride is $1,895
Front lift $1,495

That is a whole lot of awesome for $20-30K less than the Evora..... Ouch


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