Dual oil cooler, answer to overcooling - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #41 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting how cool it stays in track duty.

Thanks
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post #42 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-02-2017, 10:04 AM
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In case it's of interest, here's my personal experience with the Laminova setup:

I always warm my car at idle before taking it on track, oil temp lags behind water. After approximately 15-20 minutes at idle (car has a 170* thermostat), water is at ~178*F and oil is at ~145*F. Once on track and after a few laps, whether ambient is 55* or 95*F, water will get to ~176 to 185* (depends upon the blanking plates I use for the radiator opening to control water temps) and oil temp is ~ 220-225*F. These temps remain stable for the entire session or 30 minute sprint races that are run in Lotus Cup.

My 211 was used by Brent Bauman to test the prototype laminova setup, which he designed, and he made many small modifications to my car's cooling system in addition to just adding a larger/more robust radiator. This is why my car runs cool water temps and I need to block off air flow to the radiator on cool days. Brent was sharing the info and results with Allen at VSA, who subsequently took over sale of a complete system. VSA can sell a complete "kit" for DIYers, so no guessing as to which sandwich plate, size of laminova, aftermarket rad, thermostat, etc need be ordered. While a DIY install is possible, IMO, I'd leave it to an experienced Lotus shop to do the work as some minor fabrication may be needed.

Photos below of the blanking plates needed -- photo 1 no plates when ambient is 85* or above; photo 2 air opening limited to 12" for when ambient temps are less than 60*....
I have the same setup, but retained my AC. Allen wanted to remove it but I decided to keep it. I wish he hadn't told me how much weight I could have saved.

I was actually purchasing Reverie carbon side scoops from Brent when he was checking out my setup. I was explaining the setup and he said "yeah, I designed it". I felt pretty stupid.

Brent and Allen are top notch and their work is first rate. As I mentioned before, my setup was the first to retain the AC and I noticed the AC was actually cooler after the installation.

San
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post #43 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
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After approximately 15-20 minutes at idle (car has a 170* thermostat), water is at ~178*F and oil is at ~145*F. Once on track and after a few laps, whether ambient is 55* or 95*F, water will get to ~176 to 185* (depends upon the blanking plates I use for the radiator opening to control water temps) and oil temp is ~ 220-225*F. These temps remain stable for the entire session or 30 minute sprint races that are run in Lotus Cup.

Change your thermostat for a higher temperature one (185* to 195*). A lower temperature thermostat does not provide additional cooling capacity. Using blanking plates is a crutch. We blocked off the radiators when I ran formula fords because we drilled the thermostat or ran a blanking plate (for hp and reliability issues). I would not have done it if it were not for other priorities.
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post #44 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 11:03 AM
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Change your thermostat for a higher temperature one (185* to 195*). A lower temperature thermostat does not provide additional cooling capacity. Using blanking plates is a crutch. We blocked off the radiators when I ran formula fords because we drilled the thermostat or ran a blanking plate (for hp and reliability issues). I would not have done it if it were not for other priorities.
Thanks for your advice.

I like my system as is ..... I run in very hot desert temps (95-105*F) most of the year and the water temps are right where I want them w/o need for blanking plates.

Jack
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post #45 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 11:37 AM
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I always warm my car at idle before taking it on track, oil temp lags behind water. After approximately 15-20 minutes at idle (car has a 170* thermostat), water is at ~178*F and oil is at ~145*F. Once on track and after a few laps, whether ambient is 55* or 95*F, water will get to ~176 to 185* (depends upon the blanking plates I use for the radiator opening to control water temps) and oil temp is ~ 220-225*F. These temps remain stable for the entire session or 30 minute sprint races that are run in Lotus Cup.

My temps are a little different than your setup... after a good warmup and 4 laps I see water temps around 87c / 188F , a tad higher .. but Oil is only 94C / 201F , so you are running a bit warmer . This is based on a 20C / 68F ambient.
I am running a C43-332 Laminova .
Running a BOE REV400 and have the HEX mounted in the front so difficult to use blanking plates.

Suspect that you are using the smaller C43-182 Laminova ?

Would be good to see the oil temp a little higher .. so may look to go with smaller Lam at the next strip down ... which won't be for awhile hopefully !!!

I love the pics of your car in Red and Black ... I have been looking to redo my car and I keep coming back to your colour scheme ... would you be concerned if the same colour car turned up in the Southern hemisphere !!

Just as a point of interest ,in the K20 Elise race car I am currently building I am running a Dual Core Cooler kit http://www.speedflowshop.co.uk/dual-...kit-3635-p.asp
C43/92 for the gearbox [ EP sequential] and C43/332 for the Engine [K20]
Have deleted the the OEM water Pump and running a CWA200 Pierburg Pump for more flow [ ECU controlled] Will still have a HEX rad sandwiched to the Engine Rad.
It will be interesting to see what temps I get ..

2-11 : BOE Built Engine / Rev 400 SC / Quaife Sequential / Dry Sump / Fastworks Tune SOLD
https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f16...roject-339234/

ELISE : K20 / TVS 1320 / EP sequential / Dry Sumped / Motec M1

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f16...ealand-439105/

JUNO SSE K20 NA

Last edited by cph; 01-03-2017 at 12:49 PM.
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post #46 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 03:18 PM
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Where is yours mounted?

2006 Elise ST (someone else has it now . . . )
2008 Exige S240 ST
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post #47 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 03:25 PM
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Where is yours mounted?
Mine is on the passenger side of the car, on the lower firewall (engine side). The only time you can really see it is when it's up on a lift. I know Jack has excellent pictures of his setup and I'm sure he'll post them up.

OP, I hope we're not hijacking this thread as I'd like to think we're still in the neighborhood of solving the same problem/issue.

San

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post #48 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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No worries
All on topic as far as I'm concerned
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post #49 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-03-2017, 05:17 PM
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No worries
All on topic as far as I'm concerned
Thanks for the feedback.

San

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post #50 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepe View Post
Where is yours mounted?
Here...
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2-11 : BOE Built Engine / Rev 400 SC / Quaife Sequential / Dry Sump / Fastworks Tune SOLD
https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f16...roject-339234/

ELISE : K20 / TVS 1320 / EP sequential / Dry Sumped / Motec M1

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f16...ealand-439105/

JUNO SSE K20 NA
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post #51 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:53 AM
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My temps are a little different than your setup... after a good warmup and 4 laps I see water temps around 87c / 188F , a tad higher .. but Oil is only 94C / 201F , so you are running a bit warmer . This is based on a 20C / 68F ambient.
I am running a C43-332 Laminova .
Running a BOE REV400 and have the HEX mounted in the front so difficult to use blanking plates.

Suspect that you are using the smaller C43-182 Laminova ?

Would be good to see the oil temp a little higher .. so may look to go with smaller Lam at the next strip down ... which won't be for awhile hopefully !!!

I love the pics of your car in Red and Black ... I have been looking to redo my car and I keep coming back to your colour scheme ... would you be concerned if the same colour car turned up in the Southern hemisphere !!

Just as a point of interest ,in the K20 Elise race car I am currently building I am running a Dual Core Cooler kit Dual Core Laminova Oil Cooler Kit - Speedflow
C43/92 for the gearbox [ EP sequential] and C43/332 for the Engine [K20]
Have deleted the the OEM water Pump and running a CWA200 Pierburg Pump for more flow [ ECU controlled] Will still have a HEX rad sandwiched to the Engine Rad.
It will be interesting to see what temps I get ..
CPH, thanks for the kind words on color (it's a Ferrari color--Corsa Scuderia--Lotus blasphemy I know ) I'm still partial to orange, but since I sold my (Bobcat) orange 2-11 to a friend, who is also a member at Spring Mountain, I didn't want to have the same color car and rain on his parade.

As for size of Laminova, I pretty sure we have the same one, mounted as shown in the photo below. Can't explain oil temp differences. I'll check my data and report back on the oil temps for hot vs cooler days.
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post #52 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-04-2017, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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So, more data.

Moved the oil temp sender to its final location, but continued to measure from same exterior spot on the pan

Again cold start, room was slightly warmer.
double entered last data points so they would be visible

First gap in graph represents approx 60 seconds elevating rpm to 2500 -3000 rpm

second gap 30 seconds revs to 3000 to 5000

higher oil pressure is not forcing its way through system, most temp rise at coolers seems to be thermostat starting to open

I would say oil coolers would not be contributing any useful cooling until thermostat is full open

It is a 185 degree oil thermostat

have a 200 degree on order just because
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post #53 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 06:49 PM
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Thanks for the feedback.



San

How much did the parts and install run? Would bring in AZ heat (up to 120+) have a different effect. My temp gets up there quick on the engine during the summer, and I always wait to engage 2nd cam for 8-10 minutes after temp is up. I'm more concerned with cam wipe long term.
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post #54 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-07-2017, 08:54 PM
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How much did the parts and install run? Would bring in AZ heat (up to 120+) have a different effect. My temp gets up there quick on the engine during the summer, and I always wait to engage 2nd cam for 8-10 minutes after temp is up. I'm more concerned with cam wipe long term.
Parts and installation were $3576.14.

I can't comment on the cam wipe long term. I've probably only put 5-6K on the car since the installation, as I don't drive the Lotus very much.

San

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post #55 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 08:07 AM
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Parts and installation were $3576.14.



I can't comment on the cam wipe long term. I've probably only put 5-6K on the car since the installation, as I don't drive the Lotus very much.



San

That's not cheap, but maybe cheaper than a new engine.
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post #56 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 09:07 AM
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That's not cheap, but maybe cheaper than a new engine.
I had been doing a lot of reading on the forum and when I met my mechanic (Allen at VSA) he stated he liked to get rid of the oil coolers. He's never steered me wrong.

San
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post #57 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-08-2017, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
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Reman 2ZZ engines for around 2k

Tho I think Laminova kits can be had reasonable

of course no one voluntarily chooses 'blow up my motor'

love to see some comparable numbers on the Laminova.......
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post #58 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 01:06 PM
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It occurred to me that addressing the sandwich plate / thermostat issue would still benefit a car that has converted to a single rear oil cooler, such as mine. (Please slap me if I missed a chapter in this discussion. )

While operating temps are now higher and in a narrower range, the oil warm up time has been shortened but not drastically so.

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post #59 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 05:32 PM
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I just finished installing a single rear oil cooler, I'm in the middle of installing oil temp gauge (oil pan), and I still need to remove the two front coolers and lines. I swapped the sandwich plate thermostat wax "bullet" with a 200*F "bullet", and I wired the Spal fan on the oil cooler to a toggle switch in the cockpit. I like the fact that the oil cooler doesn't add heat load to the coolant radiator, and the fan switch adds a degree of control. I expect I'll mostly leave the fan off when on the street, and switch it on at the track. I don't doubt that the Laminova is a good solution, but since I still have A/C, and drive it on the street, I just wondered if overheating (the coolant) might be an issue on a hot day, stop and go traffic, with A/C on. Situation best avoided, I know.

-Ed
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post #60 of 458 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 05:36 PM
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I just finished installing a single rear oil cooler, I'm in the middle of installing oil temp gauge (oil pan), and I still need to remove the two front coolers and lines. I swapped the sandwich plate thermostat wax "bullet" with a 200*F "bullet", and I wired the Spal fan on the oil cooler to a toggle switch in the cockpit. I like the fact that the oil cooler doesn't add heat load to the coolant radiator, and the fan switch adds a degree of control. I expect I'll mostly leave the fan off when on the street, and switch it on at the track. I don't doubt that the Laminova is a good solution, but since I still have A/C, and drive it on the street, I just wondered if overheating (the coolant) might be an issue on a hot day, stop and go traffic, with A/C on. Situation best avoided, I know.

-Ed
I'm in Southern California and run the AC here in stop and go traffic when forced to. No issues.

San

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