Dual oil cooler, answer to overcooling - Page 6 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 64Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #101 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 08:58 AM
glb
Registered User
 
glb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chester, NJ
Posts: 11,287
JGalt, I covered the actual coolers, but took no measurements.

For you, trick would be how to easily remove covers. I have an Elise, not Exige.

05 elise (BOE Rev300 supercharged, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS. Past '72 Elan Sprint (I restored), Lotus 7 w/X-flow, TT Supra, Bugeye Sprite, BMW 2002 & 2002tii, '65 GTO.

Driving Tips-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...art-1-a-49665/
Moss Emergency Line-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...cy-line-36631/
Bleeding Brakes- https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...-brakes-241138
glb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #102 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 09:10 AM
Registered User
 
JGalt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by glb View Post
For you, trick would be how to easily remove covers. I have an Elise, not Exige.
Right, the wire mesh, front under tray and wheel well liner all represent obstacles to easily installing and removing a cover which lays flush against the oil cooler. For this reason, I think my next step is to address the oil thermostat.

'07 Lotus Exige S - Chili Red
JGalt is offline  
post #103 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 09:48 AM
Registered User
 
cyow5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NoVa
Posts: 3,879
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGalt View Post
I just did another road test. This time I was testing the effectiveness of oil cooler inlet covers which I fabricated from thick plastic (see pics).

2007 Lotus Exige S
OEM dual oil cooler set-up

Outside temp 50 degrees; All periods at 3,000 to 3,500 RPM
Oil temps were measured in the pan.

Observations:
(A) Lower ambient temp (12 F lower today vs. my previous test) led to 6 F lower oil temps on open-inlet oil coolers
(B) Covering BOTH oil cooler inlets appears to raise oil pan temps by 9 F. Not much of an improvement. I suspect air from center grill is reaching oil coolers
(C) There is no oil temp difference between having one oil-cooler inlet covered and no inlets covered. Perhaps shows how effective the oil coolers are.

NOTE: the gaps in the graph are where I had to pull over to add/remove the oil cooler inlet covers.

THOUGHTS: this test was conducted on the highway. I suspect track conditions might exaggerate the results, making oil cooler inlet covers a bot more valuable on the track.

Still, seems like to keep oil temps at 200 F, the Mishimoto with 200F thermostat is going to be necessary, but I am waiting to see what my track temperatures are next weekend.

I've also got similar covers that I made with expanding foam and then vinyl wrap. The coolant also contributes a bit to cooling the oil, so I wasn't surprised that the stray state temp is barely higher, but I noticed the warmup to be nicely quicker.

Plus, the blockoffs should significantly reduce drag and improve the splitter's efficiency


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

"Lots Of Trouble; Usually Serious"
cyow5 is offline  
 
post #104 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 11:57 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Sonoma Co. Ca
Posts: 229
Recently removed one of the front oil coolers on my 08 Exige. Took some measurements today on my Sunday drive. Took infrared to check oil pan in garage, 60. Five minutes later at idle, oil temp was 95. Driving off very conservatively stopped and checked temp five minutes into the drive, temp was 156. Drove another six minutes moderate speed, temp up to 175. Drove approximately 15 to 20 minutes spirited driving never got over 185. Sorry but I don't have the same information when I had both oil coolers operational. Outside temperature was 70. This is a stock 2008 240S. Thought this might help someone. Rustyb
rustyb is offline  
post #105 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 2,134
that data is great

the more data we get the more it turns into real information.

I really appreciate your input
exigegus is offline  
post #106 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 12:37 PM
glb
Registered User
 
glb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chester, NJ
Posts: 11,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGalt View Post
Right, the wire mesh, front under tray and wheel well liner all represent obstacles to easily installing and removing a cover which lays flush against the oil cooler. For this reason, I think my next step is to address the oil thermostat.
You need a window shade arrangement....

05 elise (BOE Rev300 supercharged, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS. Past '72 Elan Sprint (I restored), Lotus 7 w/X-flow, TT Supra, Bugeye Sprite, BMW 2002 & 2002tii, '65 GTO.

Driving Tips-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...art-1-a-49665/
Moss Emergency Line-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...cy-line-36631/
Bleeding Brakes- https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...-brakes-241138
glb is offline  
post #107 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 05:53 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 2,134
[edit] made some kind of transcription error, my previous graphs are correct, messed this one up, correcting it now with updated version


combination graph of various data we have all collected

notes:
Jack and Rusty had extended idle warmup, pretty slow so affects them in comparison
I added my normal oil temps observed outside of my short test run, so this is a composite curve if you will
Attached Images
 

Last edited by exigegus; 05-01-2017 at 05:28 AM.
exigegus is offline  
post #108 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 06:41 AM
Registered User
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spring Mountain Motorsport Ranch, NV
Posts: 4,661
Nice work.

If interested, just check out some of my track videos for info regarding oil temps on track -- data regarding oil temp is shown on the video.

This last video from a few days ago was on a 75*F day 8th lap into a session, shows water @~185*F and [email protected]~222*F

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f3/b...-video-409746/

Jack
2008 2-Eleven
2015 Exige CupR
Track videos ... http://www.youtube.com/jackcup
2010 Lotus Challenge Series ULTRA Class champion
2012 Lotus CUP USA OPEN Class champion
Jack is offline  
post #109 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 07:55 AM
Registered User
 
Obeisance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SE MI
Posts: 611
i can give you the raw data from one year of street driving with dual oil cooler if you'd like:

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f101...6/#post5200066

I'm collecting data this year with the oil coolers bypassed via the Toyota union that removes the sandwich plate.
Obeisance is offline  
post #110 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 2,134
It would be interesting to see what the data looked like for the full oil cooler delete, I expect it would be similar in warm up trand to the Mishimoto plate. I wonder on the street what the max oil temp looks like.
exigegus is offline  
post #111 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 2,134
Thought I would do a comparison that put Jacks in a different perspective

Notice how the beginning of the idle curve is so similar in all cases, I noticed this on the other graph and thought I would look at it

Remember Jack has few data points so I could not remove his track number, so his idle performance is not so grand as this graph makes out, just as his running performance was not inferior as the previous graph made it look
Attached Images
 
exigegus is offline  
post #112 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 02:14 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 191
As a very interested bystander with dual oil coolers I want to thank y'all for the persistence in gathering data. As a street car driver with very few "fun driving" roads available I hope that the information leads us to an answer as to how to get the oil temp in the good operating range. Would it take blanking off one oil cooler or should I blank off both? Would the Mishimoto plate eliminate the need for blanking off any of the coolers?

If the Mishimoto plate would prevent the dual oil coolers form over cooling, then street guys could rest easier if a section of curves happen to present itself. Otherwise, we have to be concerned whether the ambient temp is too hot or the spirited drive too much fun for blanked coolers. That is assuming that blanking the coolers would solve the oil operating temperature issue thus easing the concern of wiping cams. Hoping for a good solution.

Lonnie
Deet3450 is offline  
post #113 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 2,134
So far, what the numbers look like
blocking oil coolers not worthwhile
one oil cooler is not worthwhile

Lotus did not install this engine without some form of oil cooling, so removing both seems like a bad idea

since blanking does little, it is not really an alternative or useful addition to replacing the thermostat

we don't have accurate numbers as of yet on the Laminova or single rear mounted oil cooler

replacing the thermostat with one that works appears to increase oil temps by up to 40 degrees

follow the numbers and make your decision
exigegus is offline  
post #114 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 07:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 215
Sorry if I missed it earlier in the thread, but does anyone have any data about oil temps on a stock dual cooler car on track in reasonably warm weather driven hard? I mean, of course overcooled oil isn't good on the street per se, but maybe the coolers are just right when the platform is pushed to the max on track. Otherwise, why would Lotus have set it up that way in the first place?
sleepe likes this.

08 S240
SeniorDingDong is offline  
post #115 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 07:27 PM
shay2nak
 
shay2nak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Calipornia
Posts: 24,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by exigegus View Post
So far, what the numbers look like
blocking oil coolers not worthwhile
one oil cooler is not worthwhile
pretty amazing that blocking the coolers doesn't help to increase the temps. However, blocking the inlets might be good in reducing drag. Since there's no penalty as far as the oil is concerned.

** save ~10 lbs gain 1 hp ** EQ: Y=(190*X) / (1984-X) where Y is (HP) and X is (lbs)

'07 Lotus Exige S310


WTC 2
shay2nak is offline  
post #116 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 01:56 AM
Registered User
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spring Mountain Motorsport Ranch, NV
Posts: 4,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeniorDingDong View Post
Sorry if I missed it earlier in the thread, but does anyone have any data about oil temps on a stock dual cooler car on track in reasonably warm weather driven hard? I mean, of course overcooled oil isn't good on the street per se, but maybe the coolers are just right when the platform is pushed to the max on track. Otherwise, why would Lotus have set it up that way in the first place?
Can't answer the "why Lotus did 2 oil coolers" question.

As for more info re track use of a Lotus with the stock factory, air-to-air oil coolers--- my friend's 2-11 used on track (85*F ambient temp) will get his oil up around the 190-200*F range.... MAX.

Jack
2008 2-Eleven
2015 Exige CupR
Track videos ... http://www.youtube.com/jackcup
2010 Lotus Challenge Series ULTRA Class champion
2012 Lotus CUP USA OPEN Class champion

Last edited by Jack; 04-27-2017 at 02:07 AM.
Jack is offline  
post #117 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 02:05 AM
Registered User
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spring Mountain Motorsport Ranch, NV
Posts: 4,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by exigegus View Post
Thought I would do a comparison that put Jacks in a different perspective

Notice how the beginning of the idle curve is so similar in all cases, I noticed this on the other graph and thought I would look at it

Remember Jack has few data points so I could not remove his track number, so his idle performance is not so grand as this graph makes out, just as his running performance was not inferior as the previous graph made it look
@exigegus ....I've got complete data on oil temp from start-up through a 25-30 minute track session, as my AIM logger logs this data. If it would prove useful for you analysis, I could also make and post a video showing oil temps at cold start-up, idle warm-up and the first few laps on track as I further warm up oil/tires, etc -- you could see oil temps as they change live. Let me know.

Jack
2008 2-Eleven
2015 Exige CupR
Track videos ... http://www.youtube.com/jackcup
2010 Lotus Challenge Series ULTRA Class champion
2012 Lotus CUP USA OPEN Class champion
Jack is offline  
post #118 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 03:15 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 2,134
Jack, all data is good, I appreciate it
exigegus is offline  
post #119 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 07:33 AM
Registered User
 
Lotusmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,569
exigegus, I could be a guinea pig for your single rear oil cooler data. My '06 Exige has a bone stock engine except for some oil system upgrades: S111 gPan; single rear oil cooler. I installed the rear oil cooler several years ago and made set up refinements over time based on road and track testing.

Specs for final set-up:

- OEM sandwhich plate;
- Earls 13 row oil cooler mounted in rear passenger fender;
- Air inflow is collected by a NACA duct (mounted inside of side scoop) routed through 3-inch hose to a Mocal shroud surrounding the oil cooler;
- For no-to-low air flow conditions like freeway stop and go in hot weather, I mounted a 4-inch SPAL fan above the top / outflow side of cooler, with the fan activated by a 190 degree thermo switch on the inlet hose (NOTE: power to SPAL fan is switchable from the cabin and always on OFF...have never needed to use it other than testing);
- Aeroquip StartLite hoses and Aeroquip hose ends;
- Autometer Ultra-Lite oil temp and oil pressure gauges - temp is at pan, and pressure is at sandwhich plate;
- heat insulated foil mounted on underside of rear fender;
- passenger side engine bay trim finishing panel height was shaved about 1.5 inches along length to create a heat dissipation area;
- carbon fiber blanks for oil cooler inlets for improved aero up front.

Engine bay looks stock. Oil temps come up faster, stay higher and respond predictably to driving style.
Works like a charm.

How can I help?
Attached Images
       

2006 Exige - Phantom Black

Last edited by Lotusmotion; 04-27-2017 at 08:55 AM. Reason: Details...details...
Lotusmotion is offline  
post #120 of 458 (permalink) Old 04-27-2017, 08:08 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 2,134
Lotusmotion, thanks for the offer

here is what I would ask:

Start your car from dead cold and record data on oil temps and coolant temps

Tell us what the conditions [outside temp approx driving speed] are

run until you reach what you think your max normal oil temp is, or pretty close.

I would ask you not idle for a long time, because oil warms up really slowly at idle

If you normally idle your car to warm it up, then maybe you could to an idle test for us, that way it is at least comparable to the other idle tests we have, I don't want you to feel like you have to change how you treat your car just for our semi scientific venture. My idle test was done from dead cold, without ever touching the throttle.

thanks
exigegus is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Lotus Exige

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome