Dual oil cooler, answer to overcooling - Page 9 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #161 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-07-2017, 09:23 AM Thread Starter
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Lotus never sold this car with this engine without oil cooling. While you can do what that guy did, I personally would not recommend it. Installing a properly functioning oil thermostat is relatively cheap and probably easier than that mod.
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post #162 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-07-2017, 01:54 PM
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So browsing around for oil viscosity/ideal temps i found this information. It is direct from Castrol and it is on their full synthetic titanium fst 5w40 weight oil.

Based on the little that i read, the hths is the reading for high temp high shear test numbers at 150 deg cel, or 302 deg faren. And the higher that number the better the wear protection at high heat. So if 302 is the max temp, then in my uneducated opinion...i have no idea what the ideal temp is.

So can someone with more oil knowledge chime in....if not, then i will do a lot more reading.
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post #163 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-07-2017, 01:56 PM
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post #164 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 06:34 PM
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I've now installed the Mishimoto as well. Once exigegus made the tough to track down adapters available, I went for it!



I choose to start off by installing the 200C thermostat.





The only hard part for me was removing the sandwich plate adapter.



It did not want to come out. Added a over an hour to my project. Perhaps mine had been over torqued? Eventually I got it...




Putting things back together was not a problem.




I don't have any data logging set up yet, so I'm only contributing photos for now...


Thanks, exigegus!
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post #165 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-13-2017, 07:59 PM
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I choose to start off by installing the 200C thermostat.
I hope that is 200F. Sorry you have to change the writing on the sandwich plate now. ha ha.

I love the color scheme on your Exige!

Let us know how everything works out.
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post #166 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 03:26 PM
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Can you do this without draining the oil?

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post #167 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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Can you do this without draining the oil?
YOu have to take the filter off, so there is that.

It would be preferable to have everything set up so you don't drain all the oil out of the cooler lines

I wedged them up while I was working on it

not a big deal really
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post #168 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 07:22 PM
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I hope that is 200F. Sorry you have to change the writing on the sandwich plate now. ha ha.

I love the color scheme on your Exige!
D'oh! Well, next oil change, I'll get out the sharpie again...

Thanks, I'm still happy with the stripes, too!
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post #169 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 05:20 AM
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Can somebody put together the complete shopping list for this conversion? Plate, thermostat, etc. Links to vendors would be awesome too. I've got a dual oil cooler car and am considering options.
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post #170 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
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The Mishimoto plate comes with a thermostat that I think is acceptable for the street. The 200 degree is cheap and very easy to replace after installation, so no harm no foul no matter what you choose.

You will need two 5/8BSP to 20 mm adapters, which are a bit tricky to source in this country, I have found one source that is a wholesale only[I had to email them a tax form, even out of state, been in business 27 years but anyway...] I have been buying them so I can get them to people who don't happen to run their own business. I will talk to the salesman this week about getting a larger quantity.

Lastly you will need either copper washers or rubber sealing washer[dowty seal], depending on your preference. I bought copper washers from Mcmaster Carr and have been sending them with the fittings I have sent out.

That's it.

If the adapters prove a problem long term we will have to find another source, or I have pondered making sandwich plates myself, since I actually CNC machine aluminum for a living and all. Then we could make them with the thread that fit the original fittings and it would be even easier. Bit of a project finding all the small pieces, so don't hold your breath.
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post #171 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by exigegus View Post

You will need two 5/8BSP to 20 mm adapters, which are a bit tricky to source in this country, I have found one source that is a wholesale only[I had to email them a tax form, even out of state, been in business 27 years but anyway...] I have been buying them so I can get them to people who don't happen to run their own business. I will talk to the salesman this week about getting a larger quantity.
ill buy a set off you if you end up ordering some more in bulk (i dont mind paying a little premium for your efforts in doing that as well)

i remember when i was doing my own oil line fitting fix i had a little fun tracking down the fittings needed on the line side... found some at Pegasus but they ran out of stock last i checked so i always hoped i didn't need to replace one lol (luckily they've held up great for 6 years now)

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post #172 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 12:45 PM
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B.A.T. (located in Florida) is a MOCAL distributor and carries the OEM plumbing fittings for the sandwich plate.

BAT - MOCAL Oil Control Systems

Also as mentioned, Pegasus carries a limited amount of the OEM fittings and BSP male to AN if you use aftermarket hose fittings.

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post #173 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 01:21 PM
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Interesting thread, is there any reason not to use both the mishimoto plate initially, and then later go to the more advanced setups? In addition to Laminova based solution, I think there's a couple of solutions out there from DRS and BOE that use a non-stock radiator in the rear, and BOE provides a bracket I think...

Here it is... https://www.boefab.com/collections/e...ler-rear-mount

I'm probably most interested in reducing the time until I can run the car safely, rather than final conditions. I ran stock 2005 cams until this year with no problems on the stock oil setup (twin coolers)... just made 100% sure not to run the car until I'd seen 185 degree water temps for at least 2 min. This irritates the grid workers and complicates things for them sometimes if the person relieving me from my work assignment is slow. Also adds complexity to the things I have to tell new co-drivers...

That and of course weight savings

Edit: Oh wierd, somehow I thought I was at the end of the thread and then 5 more pages showed up... please excuse if the above was addressed in the pages I seem to have missed.

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post #174 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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I think those options have been covered in this thread already. Basically you are talking about spending 160 bucks or spending thousands. Most people are simply not going to spend that kind of money no matter what. Racers will do that. This option makes the factory parts do what they are supposed to do, and is involves no major changes.
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post #175 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 03:22 PM
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The least expensive alternative that also preserves OEM originality is to install the Mishimoto plate and be done with it.

Going from there, if you want to take a re-engineered approach that is focused on optimal performance (less weight, less complexity, consistently higher oil temps) rather than lowest cost or originality:

- the bespoke rear oil cooler set up in my '06 Exige cost about $450 for all parts (oil lines, fittings, oil cooler, and ducting.) Though, it required my R&D and fabrication of mounting brackets.

- next up is the very slick turn-key rear oil cooler solution from BOE, which will cost about $750 excluding installation.

- then, next up would be a laminova solution, of which the parts could cost a couple of grand before any installation costs.

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post #176 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsparv View Post
I ran stock 2005 cams until this year with no problems on the stock oil setup (twin coolers)... just made 100% sure not to run the car until I'd seen 185 degree water temps for at least 2 min. This irritates the grid workers and complicates things for them sometimes if the person relieving me from my work assignment is slow. Also adds complexity to the things I have to tell new co-drivers...
I know that you know what you're doing.

But, some engine builders recommend waiting 10 - 20 minutes after coolant temps are up.

On street cars, oil temp is still too low and will remain so apparently. On track, different story.

Just so future readers will see this....

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post #177 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Lotusmotion View Post
Also as mentioned, Pegasus carries a limited amount of the OEM fittings and BSP male to AN if you use aftermarket hose fittings.
I recently made the swap to the Mishimoto plate and used the following fittings to ditch the OEM 90 degree BSP fittings:

Installed these in the Mishimoto plate: Vibrant M20 to -10AN

Cut the original line at the end of the OEM barb fittings and installed these barb fittings along with Oetiker clamps to ensure they don't slip off: Vibrant -10 AN 90 elbow

I didn't have issues with hose lengths being too short and the Vibrant barb fitting elbows are less restrictive than the OEM 90 fittings.

I don't have data (yet), but my oil warms up much faster and stays at the thermostat temperature. Previously, the oil would commonly drop below the thermostat temperature with the OEM plate during cruising or on cool days. Not to mention it would take _forever_ to get up to a reasonable temp. Very pleased with this modification.
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post #178 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Lotusmotion View Post
The least expensive alternative that also preserves OEM originality is to install the Mishimoto plate and be done with it.

Going from there, if you want to take a re-engineered approach that is focused on optimal performance (less weight, less complexity, consistently higher oil temps) rather than lowest cost or originality:

- the bespoke rear oil cooler set up in my '06 Exige cost about $450 for all parts (oil lines, fittings, oil cooler, and ducting.) Though, it required my R&D and fabrication of mounting brackets.

- next up is the very slick turn-key rear oil cooler solution from BOE, which will cost about $750 excluding installation.

- then, next up would be a laminova solution, of which the parts could cost a couple of grand before any installation costs.
Another option is to go with a MOCAL sandwich plate and reuse the the OEM fittings...those are 1/2" BSP threads there, so very easy to change to AN fittings if going to a remote cooler with AN fittings. Did I miss something why this option did not get thrown on the table?
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post #179 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 01:41 AM
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A previous LT user found that the mocal unit doesnt fit well our application on this thread: https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f311...8/#post4632769

Separately, I should have some Mishimoto 200 F thermostat data by the end of this weekend, if all goes well with the installation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bri3d View Post
Just as an update: the Mocal replacement plate doesn't fit very well as the configuration of fittings vs. thermostat is different and you can't really get an angle where the hoses come in properly but the plate also fits against the block. I had a second plate (glowshift) with my pressure takeoff so I just stacked that under the Mocal plate and it seemed to clear everything OK. But it turns out the thermostats are the same and so you can also swap the thermostats across. Another user had the same issue recently and documented it in some other thread that I really wish I could find right now...

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post #180 of 458 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 02:25 AM
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I can confirm that a universal off-the-shelf Mocal sandwich plate doesn't fit, at least not on my '08 Exige. But it appears that the stock sandwich plate is made by Mocal (custom for Lotus or Toyota?), and you can replace the thermostat in the stock unit with a 200* F thermostat, which is what I did (I had bought a Mocal sandwich plate with a 200* thermostat, since it didn't fit I swapped the thermostat "bullet" instead).

But, all else being equal (and both units having 200^ thermostats), based on data in this thread it appears that the Mishimoto sandwich plate would yield faster oil temperature warm up (they're probably equivalent after warm up, with both being a bit warmer than stock during normal driving).

FYI besides changing the thermostat I also replaced the two front oil coolers with a single rear cooler (with cockpit switched fan) and an oil temp gauge, but no data to share yet (I'm still in the middle of some other mods).

HTH, -Ed
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