1986-88 Bosch CIS K-Jetronic injected Esprit specific items - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #41 of 258 (permalink) Old 05-06-2012, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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It stretches the torque curve peak trough the wide rpm range. On the dyno plot it looks like "Flat top" shape instead of a "peak and drop".
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post #42 of 258 (permalink) Old 05-08-2012, 09:28 AM
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Do you have before and after dyno sheets? I'd be interested to see the comparison as well. Typically diverting airflow like that works well in NA applications, but doesn't make much difference in boosted ones. I'm all for extending torque "under the curve".
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post #43 of 258 (permalink) Old 05-10-2012, 05:56 AM Thread Starter
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All is there:

412 BHP...THAT WILL DO NICELY...... - Esprit Chat - The Lotus Forums - Page 3
and later
http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums...y/page__st__80
http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums.../page__st__120

PS. All laws of Fluid Dynamics and Thermodynamics apply to the turbo engine(s), as well. No exceptions.
Don't repeat unfounded silly statements, please. Where have you heard that the higher (boost) pressure cancels laws of physics?

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post #44 of 258 (permalink) Old 05-20-2012, 07:23 AM Thread Starter
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FYI: pretty wise to replace plactic lines with steel braided fuel hoses

DeLorean fuel lines http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean...injection.html

and
http://www.j2precisionhose.com/estor...&cat=72&page=1

You might consider calling John at http://specialtauto.com/

He has more CIS parts and info than anyone in the US.

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post #45 of 258 (permalink) Old 06-03-2012, 06:44 AM
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Low idle after warm up

My daily driven 88 Esprit (Bosch CIS) is now experiencing a low idle when warm.

The typical scenario is driving along, stopping at light and idle drops momentarily to 500 RPM (volt meter drops to under 12 v). After about 20-30 , seconds, it will slowly go back to the 950 RPM range as factory specified.

Previously, it would idle cold at 2K RPM, 30 sec later, drop to 1800 RPM, then at 70C, drop to 950 RPM. Only in the 3-4 weeks have I seen this 500 RPM drop.

Decades ago, my Scirocco with 1978 Bosch CIS did the same - I can't remember what was the cause, but know that many things can effect it (vacuum leak,oxygen sensor flakiness, thermo time switch going bad, etc.).

Is there a 'typical' Esprit-specific failure that is most likely? I'll still check the CIS basics above, but hoping to save time if this is a common issue.

Car has 8K miles since July 2011. I've been reluctant to put fuel injection cleaner because I've heard stories that older CIS may not be compatible with it (I usually use Chevron FI cleaner).

Background:car in 99% cosmetic and mechanical condition (but no Service C done in 23 years) in July 2011 - Service C catchup done - new fuel pump, accumulator, cap, rotor, plugs, wires (passed California smog). All stock engine down to the catalyst.

Thanks,

Eddie B
87 Esprit 'SLEEK GT'
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post #46 of 258 (permalink) Old 06-10-2012, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
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For starters, check the High Temperature Switch and TPS calibration, section LF of the Service Notes, pages 51/2 and thereafter could be helpful.
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post #47 of 258 (permalink) Old 06-11-2012, 06:01 AM
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Hmm, maybe I'll throw in a quick CIS tech question as well. I've gone through my 88 checking all parts of the ignition system, replacing the main fuel pump and filter as well as all vacuum lines. It runs very rough for the first few minutes but if I pump the throttle a bit, it'll idle somewhat. After a few minutes when it warms up, it just dies. I pull the plugs and they are completely wet. It seems without throwing a wideband 02 sensor on it that it goes pig rich at a certain temp point. Any ideas?
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post #48 of 258 (permalink) Old 06-11-2012, 06:37 AM Thread Starter
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Check thermal time out switch and lo temp enrichment switch for proper operation, per section LF of the manual.
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post #49 of 258 (permalink) Old 06-11-2012, 07:48 AM
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Check thermal time out switch and lo temp enrichment switch for proper operation, per section LF of the manual.
Will do, thanks.
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post #50 of 258 (permalink) Old 06-24-2012, 07:55 AM Thread Starter
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WUR, warm up enrichment

Warm-up enrichment is controlled by the warm-up regulator. When the engine is cold, the warm-up regulator reduces the control pressure to a degree dependent upon engine temperature and thus causes the metering slits to open further. At the beginning of the warm-up period which directly follows the cold start, some of the injected fuel still condenses on the cylinder walls and in the intake ports. This can cause combustion misses to occur. For this reason, the air-fuel mixture must be enriched during the warm-up( < 1.0). This enrichment must be continuously reduced along with the rise in engine temperature in order to prevent the mixture being over-rich when higher engine temperatures have been reached. The warm-up regulator (control-pressure regulator) is the component which carries out this type of mixture control for the warm-up period by changing the control pressure.
Warm-up regulator.
The change of the control pressure is effected by the warm-up regulator which is fitted to the engine in such a way that it ultimately adopts to the engine temperature. An additional electrical heating system enables the regulator to be matched precisely to the engine characteristic.
The warm-up regulator comprises a spring-controlled flat seat (diaphragm type) valve and an electrically heated bimetal spring. In cold condition, the bimetal spring exerts an opposing force to that of the valve spring and, as a result, reduces the effective pressure applied to the underside of the valve diaphragm. This means that the valve outlet cross-section is slightly increased at this point and more fuel is diverted out of the control-pressure circuit in order to achieve a low control pressure. Both the electrical heating system and the engine heat the bimetal spring as soon as the engine is cranked. The spring bends, and in doing so reduces the force opposing the valve spring which, as a result, pushes up the diaphragm of the flat-seat valve. The valve outlet cross-section is reduced and the pressure in the control-pressure circuit rises.
Warm-up enrichment is completed when the bimetal spring has lifted fully from the valve spring. The control pressure is now solely controlled by the valve spring and maintained at its normal level. The control pressure is about 0.5 bar at cold start and about 3.7 bar with the engine at operating temperature.

For more information go here: http://blagulracing.com/mektips/bosch_k-jetronic.pdf

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post #51 of 258 (permalink) Old 06-25-2012, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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Priming Fuel Pumps, 1986,87,88, Bosch CIS system

PUMP TEST


The proper connections to jumper pumps at the relay sockets are noted here:
http://lotusracer.home.mchsi.com/lotustipspage2.htm
Key "off".
Remove both pump relays. Make two “jumper” wires with 2 spade
terminals on each end. Plug one end in the relay socket middle slot towards
the front of the car (black wire), and the other end in the slot towards the rear of
the car (banded wire). You should jumper the primary pump FIRST (the
relay socket to the left), BEFORE you jumper the secondary pump (right relay socket).
Otherwise, or you could actually damage the secondary pump by running it dry.
Keep both pumps running for a minute or two to purge the lines of air.
They should hum and stay cold. Any grinding noises or complete silence indicates big trouble.
To stop, disconnect the secondary pump first and the primary after that or disconnect the
positive battery cable. Remove jumper cables, replace relays.
Note: Inertia Switch has no effect on this procedure.

*** Primary pump: 0580-254-967/ GFP 208 (148 l/hr, 5 Bar)
Secondary pump: 0580-254-979/ GFP 044 (165 l/hr, 5Bar)
They fit 911 turbo.
Better flow can be achieved by installing:
Primary: 0580254984 165 l/hr (5Bar)
Secondary: 0580254044 300 l/hr (5Bar) M18x1.5 wide inlet instead of M14x1.5

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post #52 of 258 (permalink) Old 07-29-2012, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shill68 View Post
Hmm, maybe I'll throw in a quick CIS tech question as well. I've gone through my 88 checking all parts of the ignition system, replacing the main fuel pump and filter as well as all vacuum lines. It runs very rough for the first few minutes but if I pump the throttle a bit, it'll idle somewhat. After a few minutes when it warms up, it just dies. I pull the plugs and they are completely wet. It seems without throwing a wideband 02 sensor on it that it goes pig rich at a certain temp point. Any ideas?
Have you diagnosed the problem, yet?
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post #53 of 258 (permalink) Old 08-25-2012, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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Obvious advantage of a pre-filter

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtrealty View Post
The Lotus engineers did not screw up. Typically you do not have a pump suck through a fine filter. The filters that are "pre pump" are just to keep the big junk out of the pump. Fine filtering is done after the pump where you can get a lot of pressure so when the filter loads up it can last longer with more dirt. Pumps are considered a wearable item so they are not intended to last forever. Even fuel tanks were not designed to last 30 years! And high alcohol content was not even considered in the fuel. If the tank is rusting eventually it will leak. The only fix is to remove the tank and have it cleaned and sealed. When I see that it is usually towards the top of the tank where all of the moisture precipitates out of the air. BTW when the filter on the suction side of the pump gets clogged the pump will run dry. That wears it out even faster so how is the filter "protecting" the pump?
David Teitelbaum
Here is what my pre-filter/strainer (80 micron mesh) has caught. It prevented ingestion of major crud into expensive Bosch pumps. If you install pre-filter you must clean it at least once a year, though. Definitely, it is cheaper than new pumps!
A while ago, I read a technical article about a "Terne" coated steel (8% tin-led coating) used in construction of fuel tanks.

Oh, and by the way,
there never been any "factory" strainer on 86-88 Bosh injected cars! I checked it with a bore scope camera.
To prevent my aux. strainer filter from "loading up" with rust flakes, I'm going to mount it vertically and add a gravity/magnetic particle trap below. Gravity is free; use it to your advantage!

"Users of methanol blend fuels found an unsuspected cause of trouble in the gasoline tank, which traditionally has been made of "Terne” plated steel, a favorite roofing material of Victorian architects. It is steel sheet coated with lead, making it ideal for resisting rust from water in gas tanks. Methanol reacts with lead, slowly but surely, forming a flaky sludge that plugs filters in the fuel system. The easiest solution is to inspect and clean the filters every few days while using methanol fuel. The lead should all be eliminated within a couple of weeks of usage."
__________________________________________________ _
In the case of steel or aluminum tanks, both are conductive metals. Aluminum relies on an oxide layer for its corrosion protection properties. Steel relies on coatings for its corrosion protection. Low levels of ethanol, such as E10 (10%), are usually not a problem in aluminum tanks because the oxide layer provides a good measure of protection. What about steel? The problem occurs even with 10% ethanol content.

There are two mechanisms that occur with ethanol. Both mechanisms are a result of the hydroscopic property of ethanol, meaning it absorbs water. The more ethanol in the fuel, the more water there will be in the fuel tank. Water not only causes the tank to corrode, it also causes the corrosion particles to clog fuel filters, fuel systems, and damage engine components.

The second mechanism that can occur with the increased use of ethanol based fuel in aluminum or steel tanks is galvanic corrosion. Gasoline fuel is not conductive, but the presence of ethanol or ethanol and water will conduct electricity. Boat builders are able to protect exterior aluminum boat equipment with sacrificial anodes known as zincs. Sacrificial anodes are not a feasible option for the interior of a fuel tank. In the long term, corrosion can perforate aluminum or steel to produce leaks that would cause fuel to spill into the bilge and end up in the environment. In the worse case it could cause a fire and/or explosion hazard. Boat fuel tanks are often located under the deck next to the engine where the operator might not be aware of a leak until it was too late.

High Strength-Low Alloy Steels.
High strength-low alloy steels show improved corrosion resistance over carbon steels in rural and mild industrial environments. In marine atmospheres and in immersion services, however, the difference in performance between carbon and low-alloy steels is minor (see Seawater Corrosion & Material Selection). The primary advantage of these materials is their higher strength. But remember that the same amount of material loss will usually have a greater impact on the load carrying capacity of a high strength material than on a low strength material. The high strength-low alloy steels should be protected when used in marine environments. They are somewhat more cathodic than carbon steels.
Alloy Steels.
Steels with higher alloy content are more susceptible to pitting corrosion attack than steels with lower alloy content. Pitting is common in alloys with more than 5% total alloy content. Corrosion rates are similar to carbon and low alloy steels with pitting being only three to five times the corrosion rate calculated from weight loss.
Alloy steels are selected for their higher strength but can be susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement or stress corrosion cracking at yield strengths in excess 100 ksi. The alloy steels are somewhat more cathodic than carbon steels.
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post #54 of 258 (permalink) Old 08-28-2012, 12:26 PM
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Have you diagnosed the problem, yet?
I'm getting close, just finished my engine build on my other car and it's running great. Next in line is the Lotus, I'll pull out your email and look into it again later this week. Thanks!
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post #55 of 258 (permalink) Old 09-22-2012, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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If anyone pulls out the tanks, I'd suggest adding a

Porsche 92820108104 Fuel Strainer
Chassis Application(s): 911 (1989-1994), 911 (1994-1998), 924 (1976-1979), 924S (1986-1988), 928 (1978-1982), 928 (1983-1986), 928 (1987-1991), 944 (1982-1985), 944 (1985-1988), 944 (1989-1991), 968 (1992-1995)

With the tanks out you could have a bung welded into the feed sump
adding a proper strainer 92820108104 from a Porsche 911, 924, 944, 944S, 944S2, 944 Turbo
Fuel Pump Suction Strainer - Removing, Cleaning, and Replacing

1988 Porsche 928 Fuel Strainer by OES Genuine Fuel Strainer 88 Porsche 1988 Porsche 928 Fuel Strainer; OES Genuine Fuel Strainer manufactured for Porsche 928. Fuel Systems & Components 12-month or 12 000-mile warranty.
Porsche 92820108104 Fuel Strainer | Compare Prices
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post #56 of 258 (permalink) Old 10-08-2012, 03:43 PM Thread Starter
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Citroen/Maserati C35 Transmission Shop Manual/Parts

Citroen workshop gearbox overhaul manual I found here:

http://www.citroen-ds-id.com/index.h...S_Manuals.html

a big file, will take some time to download.
Which has the overhaul of the DS 5 Speed box, in the reconditioning section, which assembly-wise is identical to the SM/Maserati/Lotus.

You need to make only 2 tools to overhaul box fully, one is to buy a standard open ended spanner and have a relieve machined on to it to be able to undo the pinion nut, and the other is to remove the innards on an output shaft. To set the C+P clearances is not easy without the specific tool, and the shims, but a competent shop can mod/make once-off stuff to do it, and
Jerry Hathaway would have the shims and other parts at this link: Citroen SM World or

http://www.infoweb.nl/smworld/

FYI: links to Citroen parts/owners clubs can be found here: http://www.citroentechtips.com/category/sm/
Also:
http://www.bradnaussauto.com/

The other source you might want to look into is Western Hemispheres:
http://westernhemispheres.com/

The one guy I can think of who really focuses on the SM in particular would be Dennis Foley:
http://www.citroentechtips.com/

And finally, if you want to hear about pushing an SM to the extent of it's abilities, take a look at this:
http://www.infoweb.nl/smworld/salt.htm

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post #57 of 258 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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EXTERNAL WASTEGATE CORRECTION

BOOST RESTORATION / EXTERNAL WASTEGATE CORRECTION

You can easily restore your boost to 9.5psi, as specified in Lotus Service Notes and other factory literature.
If your external wastegate has an alloy spacer ring between main housing and the bottom cover, your wastegate has been "detuned", therefore restricting maximum boost to 7psi.
To restore maximum boost level, the ring has to be removed.
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post #58 of 258 (permalink) Old 11-23-2012, 07:04 PM
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[QUOTE=MRDANGERUS;1792301]If anyone pulls out the tanks, I'd suggest adding a

Porsche 92820108104 Fuel Strainer
Chassis Application(s): 911 (1989-1994), 911 (1994-1998), 924 (1976-1979), 924S (1986-1988), 928 (1978-1982), 928 (1983-1986), 928 (1987-1991), 944 (1982-1985), 944 (1985-1988), 944 (1989-1991), 968 (1992-1995)

With the tanks out you could have a bung welded into the feed sump
adding a proper strainer 92820108104 from a Porsche 911, 924, 944, 944S, 944S2, 944 Turbo
Fuel Pump Suction Strainer - Removing, Cleaning, and Replacing

1988 Porsche 928 Fuel Strainer by OES Genuine Fuel Strainer 88 Porsche 1988 Porsche 928 Fuel Strainer; OES Genuine Fuel Strainer manufactured for Porsche 928. Fuel Systems & Components 12-month or 12 000-mile warranty.
Porsche 92820108104 Fuel Strainer | Compare Prices[/QUOTE

A good collector to pick rust from the 'old tanks'
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post #59 of 258 (permalink) Old 12-25-2012, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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TIMING BELT TENSION GAUGE

TIMING BELT TENSION GAUGE

Why pay hundreds?
Just look for "Kent-Moore J-26486 Belt Tension Gauge" on eBay.
Kent Moore bought out Burroughs, so gauges are identical, well, except Lotus logo, perhaps
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post #60 of 258 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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EASY WAY TO GET TO THE TIMING BELT TENSIONER on X180

To re-tension the timing belt with fully dressed engine, the least intrusive way is to slacken the v-belts and remove the crankshaft pulley from below.
See? There is enough room to access inaccessible!
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