Bloomberg Esprit "investment" article - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 06:07 AM Thread Starter
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Bloomberg Esprit "investment" article

Bloomberg Esprit "investment" article. If this was posted I missed it. Some inaccuracies as always in these kind of things. Unlike some other exotics, I don't think many owners bought our cars as investments. I bought mine to DRIVE.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...h-investing-in
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 11:35 AM
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NOT Very Nice!

We should complain to the Editor.
This wanker probably never had an opportunity /privilege of EVEN parking his Honda Element 5 rows behind Esprit!
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 12:19 PM
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Much of what was said could be said for any 2 door sports car. If you buy an old car in good condition and take care of it, it goes up in value. If you consider what is spent on insuring it, garaging it, maintaining it, plates, and such you are not making money but you do get to enjoy the use of it.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 05:30 PM
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"Have a trusted mechanic inspect the tubes"

Is that something specific on the earlier Esprits? What Tubes?

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Previous - lots of hot rod Air Cooled 911s
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 06:00 PM
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after inspection, my trusted mechanic told me to get my tubes tied
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 06:30 PM
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......consider the source.... bloomberg.....now there's a wanker
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 04:12 AM
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The writer has not done their homework writing this article,, Not unlike most reporters today. She was never in the seat with the steering wheel in her hands and foot on the throttle pedal. Her research was most likely taken from those outside the Lotus family of owners for the most part. Sadly it was an opportunity to experience an Esprit completely as Collin intended. One does not buy any limited production car thinking well enough, done lets drive it silly and not expect to do some investing to maintain it. Unfortunately some of our past owners did thrash them senselessly and when a few things became unsorted and parked them to be forgotten while picking out another from the stable to give a workout. Its only money right and when you feel cheated because "you" broke it. That it gives you license to verbally thrash the car. The idea you thrash the car break it and think it magically goes up in value is beyond ignorant thought in my books. I accept the expense of owning a exotic car and the care needed to make her right when I mess up. I don't think there is one owner here who expects to get rich from their "investment" in an Esprit,, But what they do expect every time behind the wheel is that warm feeling while gazing at her and driving her through a winding mountain road, no radio on just engine sounds. Knowing all is right in the universe at that moment. Sorry Hannah you lost out and missed what truly owning a Esprit is really about. A love affair.
Jenna
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 04:41 AM
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After seeing the comments above ^^^^ I expected to see an article trashing the Esprit. Must be a different article. Sure, some factual inaccuracies and the mysterious 'inspect the tubes' statement...and the fact that the Europa is referred to by its original name: the Europe, suggesting a writer from the old world.

But by and large the article wasn't all that far off the mark. Let's face it, until the last few years of its run, it very much had a parts bin quality to it. The interior door handles were right out of the British Leyland bin...could be sourced from any MGB or Midget. The switch gear and gauges all came from something else. Much of the brakes and suspension, at least on the G bodied car I had, came from something else. Heck, even the tail light lens on some years, upon close inspection, bear the Toyota brand to reflect that they were the same used on the contemporary Supras. That reflected the years when Toyota owned a piece of the pie...and then there is the famous GM steering wheel, that looked like it belonged (and actually could be found in) just about any GM sedan sold during the time GM owned controlling stake in Lotus.

I had my '84 at a British Car Day show in PA parked next to another '84, both cars were stock and immaculate. In looking at the engine bays, on HIS car you could see the wall between the engine and boot had been hacksawed a bit to accommodate a different emissions pump. He swore his car was as it was from the factory, as was mine. But there you had it, different emission pump, and in his case, some modification to make his fit. You can picture the guys on the assembly line "We're out of air pumps." "No worries, run over to British Leyland and pick up a box of theirs to tide us over."

I will say the knock about the power of the engine is a bit off the mark. In 84 Road and Track tested a Turbo Esprit against a contemporary Ferrari 308, with Dan Gurney running hot laps in both. The Lotus was faster around the track significantly. Although in the end Gurney preferred the Ferrari, largely because it felt like it was screwed together better. The monthly running total of the tests that R & T printed in the back of each issue showed the first G bodied Turbos to be one of the quickest cars you could buy at the time, surpassing all Vettes, most Porsches, and all but one or two very high end Ferraris.

The author rightfully pointed out that the value in these cars is the documented work and service history, and that an awful lot of the cars were allowed to either fall into neglect, or have cheap/dodgey repairs done to them. For that reason the current Esprit market is very much a 'buyer beware' situation. That stunning wedge, shining flawlessly in the Sun, as we all know, can soon devolve into an expensive college/retirement fund eater under its pretty skin.

Owned, loved, enjoyed, and now gone:
1969 Europa S2 Blue
1970 Europa S2 White
1974 Europa Twin Cam Blue
1974 Europa Twin Cam Blue
1984 Turbo Esprit Calypso Red
2005 Elise Starlight Black
2005 Elise Saffron Yellow
2005 Elise Ardent Red
2006 Exige Graphite Grey
2007 Exige Canyon Red

Other:
1970 MGB GT
1970 Datsun 510
1984 Honda CRX Si
1984 Pontiac Fiero
2004 Chrysler Crossfire
2009 Pontiac Solstice Coupe

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 05:28 AM
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The writer is a younger woman,, Nothing wrong with that. The article to me personally felt like a fill a deadline need and not much more. She covers clothing , makeup and everything else under the sun as a writer. It was more random wanderings to me then anything else. It was not really demeaning in a real sort,, Just lacking in real depth. Given Lotus financial unending woes and supplier cut offs. Collin's need to fund a racing program its not hard to see why things were as they were. The cars much like the race cars,, Used Saturday sold Sunday for short term and replace,, that was the whole English marketing strategy of the day I suppose. Will fits from suppliers a low cost was the order of the day,,, that and lighter is better. Esprit owners are a bit more defensive then most about their choice I often see.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 08:17 AM
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I found the article to be pretty superficial, with Dave and Jenna both pointing that out. There's a lot of generic statements in the piece that apply, as has been noted, to any vintage car. Two things to emphasize (that were not) as far as I am concerned. The Esprit is affordable for those of who were not born with trust funds. What you get in this car its engineering and performance is just spectacular considering the cost of the car. And I have always said that the happiest Lotus and Esprit owners are inevitably people who do most or all of their own maintenance and repair. Not only because it has the effect of cost-saving, but because it creates a far more intimate connection to the car itself. And even if you don't my general impression is that compared to Ferrari or Lamborghini even if you pay a mechanic for all your maintenance it is still by far less costly. I always cite two items I remember seeing on eBay for a Ferrari - a distributor cap (yes just the cap) for $400 and a fuel tank for $6,000.

My Lotus is far less costly to maintain (I do all my own work) than my daughter's 2008 BMW 335xi. And although I appreciate the luxury of the Beemer it would never provide me with the pleasure and intimacy of my Esprit.

Tom

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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-06-2019, 09:57 AM
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Bammmmmmmmm Well stated
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-07-2019, 11:11 AM
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Hannah Elliott is a hard core car nut and is the girlfriend of Magnus Walker who is a famous Porsche collector. He recently purchased an Esprit S2 which might be the influence... You can find them both on Twitter or Instagram.

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Previous Lotus: 73 Europa, 77 Esprit S1, 80 Esprit S2, 85 Turbo Esprit, 95 S4S, 00 Elise Sport 190, 00 Exige S1, 08 Exige S240
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-07-2019, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by EYERACE View Post
......consider the source.... bloomberg.....now there's a wanker
I understand why people don't like Bloomberg the man, but Bloomberg the financial news agency really has done (and continues to do) some decent reporting (i.e. since money is at stake when considering the accuracy of financial news, the incentives here reward accuracy as opposed to sensationalism). Even then, I really doubt that Michel Bloomberg has significant influence on their automotive reporting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenna'sEspritTurbo View Post
The writer is a younger woman,, Nothing wrong with that. The article to me personally felt like a fill a deadline need and not much more. She covers clothing , makeup and everything else under the sun as a writer.
I'm somewhat confused - looking at the list of articles she's written for Bloomberg, it appears that she has written only automotive pieces in the past few years. From the errors in the article it's clear that it isn't super well researched, but she does not appear to be just some random staff writer.

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Hannah Elliott is a hard core car nut and is the girlfriend of Magnus Walker who is a famous Porsche collector. He recently purchased an Esprit S2 which might be the influence... You can find them both on Twitter or Instagram.
I always had the impression that Magnus Walker kind of came out of nowhere to internet prominence for reasons I also find kind of nebulous. I mean, I hadn't ever heard the name until 5-6 years ago, and then he was mentioned in the newer Need For Speed, and then nothing again. I find the whole thing kind of bizarre.

Drives a Prius (clearly knows nothing about cars).

Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
Leave Out The Unnecessary Stuff
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 04:05 AM
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Ms Elliot

If you do some research you will find she has been a staff writer for Forbes

As she wrote ( I write about style, art, culture, watches and high-end cars as a staff writer for Forbes )

So I am not a bit surprised that she writes from a distance without getting her mind and fingers dirty on any topic.

Sounds kinda poofie to me if she is excited about high end cars. I do share the same feelings on Magnus about this sudden public fame as a clothing designer from UK. Doesn't do anything for me, I wonder if that is his real name Somebody buy him a razor.

I am happy to have grease under my fingernails putting headers on my Esprit or pondering the wonders of why John Lucas, British electrical systems and yes I own some watches,,,, they mostly sit gathering dust on my dresser.

Pass me that 13mm please and get me another can of English wire smoke

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 08:30 AM
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So I read it again, just not seeing the problem.

She starts out, with the headline, saying that it could be your next best investment, and that resale prices are trending up. How dare she?!

She cites its 'supermodel good looks and capable handling.' She actually says it 'excels around corners.' Oh the humanity!

More than once she observes that it costs much less to maintain and repair than similar era Ferrari and Lambos.

She points out Lotus' rep for faulty build, frailty, and lack of reliability, but THEN offers equal time to actual owners, who offer countering, informed views.

The owners share that maintenance is less frequent and less expensive than a 'normal' luxury car. And that the car was sorted fully by the end of the run.

She cites sales experts stating that you likely won't lose money on the short term when you buy an Esprit. And that for the most part parts are accessible and don't cost a fortune.

She VERY rightfully points out...expert opinions, not hers...that because for the longest time, their being so cheap that owners would often defer work, creating bigger problems in the long run. I see that very admonition offered on this forum OFTEN when someone comes on asking opinions about a car he is considering buying.

Really, what exactly is the beef or subtsantive errors in her summary of the car?

Keeping in mind I don't go to Bloomberg anymore for information about cars than I come here for investment or medical advice, to someone not terribly steep in Lotus in general or Esprit in particular ownership, I think she gives a car person with passive interest in Lotus a lot of good info on the Esprit.
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Owned, loved, enjoyed, and now gone:
1969 Europa S2 Blue
1970 Europa S2 White
1974 Europa Twin Cam Blue
1974 Europa Twin Cam Blue
1984 Turbo Esprit Calypso Red
2005 Elise Starlight Black
2005 Elise Saffron Yellow
2005 Elise Ardent Red
2006 Exige Graphite Grey
2007 Exige Canyon Red

Other:
1970 MGB GT
1970 Datsun 510
1984 Honda CRX Si
1984 Pontiac Fiero
2004 Chrysler Crossfire
2009 Pontiac Solstice Coupe
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
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I'm happy to see prices coming up! Nothing wrong with that. I did a little research on Esprit, (I'm told that is the singular and plural form per Lotus), before I bought my car. One thing I did not check on was parts availability. Happily that is not a problem. I was trying to fix up a 1996 C4 Corvette for the family of a friend of mine that died last summer to sell, and it didn't need much but EVERY time I went to the Chevy dealer "no longer available". That includes steering racks and steering columns! All that is available is rebuilds. I was stunned. You know how many Vettes are out there. The little foreign independent car repair that I take my DD to for stuff I can't do or don't want to do told me this past summer that he has two customers that have Ferrari Testarossas and there are no oil filters available... !
I count myself very lucky to have an Esprit and to have kind of fallen into a wonderfully engineered car that didn't cost the price of a house and that I can get parts for and fix myself and DRIVE, not just sit in a garage. I rejoice that the word is finally getting out about our cars. The only real error I noticed in the article was she said the V8's had 500 HP. I hope there are more articles to call attention to these cars. There are always going to be errors.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 05:56 PM
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Someone took something from the world of bloomberg......and then we have posts where people's panties are in a wad......I rest my case... the article states what we all know....values in the future will likely go up.....duh. stated again......Bloomberg? Ftttttt Boo Hiss
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 08:54 PM
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Let's stick to the topic please. The discussion is about the veracity of the article written by Ms. Elliot. Sorry but Mr. Bloomberg has nothing to do with it. I very much doubt he even read it or even cares. Let's move on.
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 05:23 PM
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As the former Associate Publisher of Automobile Magazine and an 8-year stint at Road & Track prior to that assignment, I'm here to tell you that the problem with digital content is that there is precious little (if any) fact checking by the media outlet prior to publication. The reasoning is that if there is a mis-statement, it can be corrected in the digital environment. No so with content on paper.

Truly talented journalists are a rare breed these days as a result. Anybody with a laptop is now a publisher (just as we are doing right now....). I partnered with my mentor David E. Davis Jr. in the launch of Winding Road...the first digital auto enthusiast publication back in 2006. David, understandably, applied all of his processes learned through 40 years of print-based products to our nascent digital publication and it was amazing. Unfortunately, the investor couldn't keep his hands-off the project and fell victim to all of the on-line rhetoric about conformity to HTML formats to accommodate advertisers' existing ad units. But here's the thing that he overlooked: our ad performance overshadowed website metrics by a factor of over 2,000!! We regularly enjoyed 4% click-through rates in a world where website ads generate .0018% performance (yes, you read that right!).


How did we do it? The product was a simple, yet effective PDF that exploded on the screen in full-screen format. We were accused of the cars featured in our magazine looking better that they do in real life by a very prominent automotive executive. Alas, the investor (because he was smarter than a couple of guys with 60+ years of experience under our belts...) shifted gears and the project is some half-baked effort wrought with all the same stuff that Hannah Elliot foisted on us. There's no room for crap like this anywhere in media. Do it right, or don't do it at all.....


Bob
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 08:03 AM
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One final thought from me on this topic, given the frequent ambivalent reviews of Lotus and specifically the Esprit. They always cite the "lots of trouble usually serious" meme which I have yet to see any real data on, and furthermore has often been explained as not something in any way due to inherent engineering but as likely to maintenance, abuse, etc. I've owned a lot of cars (and motorcycles) and they all had their problems and in all honesty I never had a sense of one particular marque which was unambiguously more problematic than another, especially if you took into account maintenance history and sophistication of previous owners. They all had issues, often unique and different for each car, let alone each marque. And expense? A friend here in town just spent about $30,000 getting a old Ferrari engine rebuilt. A tiny computer on my 30+ year old K75S BMW motorcycle whose sole function is to regulate the three fuel injectors? $1500 for the "ersatzteil" (i.e. OEM) part from BMW. I've don't recall a BMW review ever saying "pray nothing breaks because when they hand you the bill you will have a sharp rise in blood pressure and a steep tumble in your bank account".

What I sometimes suspect (and yes, it is a bit self-indulgent) is just a lot of people who spent north of $100,000 or even $200,000 for a car can't readily accept that a guy like me who spent about 20% of the lower figure for his Esprit can run in the same performance class. Yup, it can - and it gets the same amount of head turning on the street and people coming up wanting to take pictures at the gas station as the other super-priced exotics. That's got to be a factor in my opinion of why people feel compelled to always point to negatives about Lotus. The truth is it's a solid super-car for the price of Honda Accord and it goes like hell once its properly sorted and maintained and will keep up with anything in its class on the track - and the twistier the better for the Lotus. On the street it will give you all the power and control you might require to get yourself in trouble with the authorities. So please, spare me the reliability criteria. You can buy three Ferrari fuels tanks and four Ferrari distributors caps or you can buy an Esprit. I'll take the Esprit, thank you very much.

That's my Sunday morning two cents.

tom
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