CitroŽn g/box Crown Wheel and Pinion - Page 7 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #121 of 227 (permalink) Old 07-24-2017, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRDANGERUS View Post
Started talks with Klingelnberg manufacturing company overseas.
I'm trying to bring the price down a little bit.
Hi, coming to " my " manufacturer?

cheers,

Harry Martens
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post #122 of 227 (permalink) Old 07-24-2017, 11:46 AM
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OK, so if I am reading and understanding this thread correctly, there are TWO competing CWP things going on, One from Harry and the other from John (Mr Dangerous)? Is this productive? There is a limited market for Citroen transaxle CWP stuff I would think.
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post #123 of 227 (permalink) Old 07-24-2017, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenD57 View Post
OK, so if I am reading and understanding this thread correctly, there are TWO competing CWP things going on, One from Harry and the other from John (Mr Dangerous)? Is this productive? There is a limited market for Citroen transaxle CWP stuff I would think.
My take - it's not exactly competing but definitely overlapping.

For those looking for an OEM solution, Harry's offering is an upgraded version (and I assume a possibly lower price as his solution works on non-Esprit cars (Citroen SM, Maserati Merak, et al).

For those that subscribe to the reverse direction issue that MRDANGERUS documented, his solution is an Esprit-only (?) product with a slightly different final drive ratio. His will be lower volume so unclear how much cost delta will result.

For me (87 Esprit owner), I don't push the car hard enough to warrant either as an upgrade.
However, the OEM solution is fine with me - my last Esprit OEM CWP lasted 50K miles on my watch just fine with no issues. Then again, I did get my Quaife from Harry and that was probably overkill, but I like the LSD feature over the 'one legged' OEM design - having a stronger CWP is a good thing if you're replacing it anyway.

If you plan to use more performance on your Citroen-equipped Esprit, MRDANGERUS solution seems to up the ante. But note that it's an aftermarket design and that has pro/cons as usual. Given MRDANGERS' attention to detail, it certain seems like a viable high performance alternative.

I would remiss if I didn't state the obvious - it's never been done before on a Esprit near as I can tell so you'll be a trail blazer.

Eddie B
87 Esprit 'SLEEK GT'
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post #124 of 227 (permalink) Old 07-25-2017, 07:36 AM
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I don't drive the car especially hard either, but if the Citroen explodes, then I'm off on a v. expensive, time consuming power train swap to a more robust transaxle (and perhaps an engine to match) and all the brake re-engineering needed.

So I look at the possibility of a CWP upgrade as some sort of insurance against unleashing the mental mechanic within. $$$$

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post #125 of 227 (permalink) Old 07-25-2017, 10:51 AM
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One form of insurance would be to replace the input shaft circlip (and CW carrier bearings if needed) every 35 - 45K miles.

Atwell Haines
'88 Esprit
Succasunna, NJ USA


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post #126 of 227 (permalink) Old 07-25-2017, 11:18 AM
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All very valid points, indeed!
I love all the work you do in looking for updates and upgrades for us '88 and earlier Esprit guys, MRDANGEROUS, so I'm all for anything you might pioneer for the Esprit and think it is a great thing!

I am curious though, as to me, as far as Stevens go, the '88 (along with the '87 and earlier which seems true as well, although to a slightly lesser extent) seems to attract a different following than the later model Esprits. I've had so many friends with '88 and earlier Esprits over the past two decades, but can't recall the last time one of them ever had one explode. Maybe Atwell, but I'm not sure and don't remember...either way, it has been a while. I am guessing that this is due to the fact that for most Esprit buyers, those who are power hungry or love to mod their Esprits have a tendency to go with an SE or newer Esprit (Renault transaxle) due to the ease of upgrades and modifications. There are a few exceptions, but from my experience, that seems to be the norm.

Yes, a disaster if it fails, but how many CWP have exploded or failed in that manner? Is it really that common? It's been quite some time since anyone posted about a failure on the forum. There are so many friends and members that have driven their bone stock '88 and earlier Esprits to very high mileage and never had a problem. One person would be Ed Young from Yahoo's TurboEsprit forum...before he left the country, he had something like 140K miles (for real) on his all-original '88 without a rebuild or a CWP problem. With Citroen transaxle-equipped Esprits having been made from '76 to '88, one would think CWP failure posts would be all over the place, but for some reason, they aren't.

I love upgrades and think it is a nice reliability improvement and upgrade to the original, no doubt about that, especially if you are in there and have it apart. However, the Citroen is not a very strong transaxle. People sometimes put down the Renault as being made of glass (it is way better than that), but the Citroen is even worse. It was never made to be used in a performance application and the shafts and gears are even less up to the task. Without an upgrade kit like the ones available for the Renault, which nobody makes for the Citroen at the moment, it is only part of the equation. Even if such a kit were to become available (which isn't likely now after so many decades), I have heard over the years that in a modded application, the housing itself is not very strong or rigid either.

Getting harder to find every day, but if one needs a CWP and can find a good used one out of a non-Esprit, it won't be heavy duty or superfinish-coated, but will be like brand new in regards to wear since it turns the other way and in Esprit applications, uses the other side of the CWP.

That said and done, if the one on my '88 blows up, you'll likely be the first person I think of, but my question is...is such an upgrade really needed or necessary for a mildly driven street Esprit? Not putting it down, just hoping for some enlightenment in case there was something I missed.

What I would love to see is for someone to pioneer an adapter/conversion kit specifically for the Esprit to run a Porsche G-50 or equivalent bulletproof transaxle for the Esprit. Now that would sell! Not only to the '88 and earlier Citroen crowd, but to all Esprit owners looking for a transaxle replacement or rock solid alternative...if someone could engineer and price it competitively.

Anyway, just my two cents....
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Last edited by Turbo R; 07-25-2017 at 01:00 PM. Reason: Typo
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post #127 of 227 (permalink) Old 07-25-2017, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carbuff View Post
One form of insurance would be to replace the input shaft circlip (and CW carrier bearings if needed) every 35 - 45K miles.
Been there, done that when I put in the LSD. Also bored the crank for the newer ball bearing, but it's all just lipstick on the rest of the (allegedly) fragile parts.

+1 for the G50 or Audi 016/01e kit
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Last edited by snowrx; 07-25-2017 at 03:13 PM.
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post #128 of 227 (permalink) Old 07-29-2017, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo R View Post
All very valid points, indeed!
I love all the work you do in looking for updates and upgrades for us '88 and earlier Esprit guys, MRDANGEROUS, so I'm all for anything you might pioneer for the Esprit and think it is a great thing!

I am curious though, as to me, as far as Stevens go, the '88 (along with the '87 and earlier which seems true as well, although to a slightly lesser extent) seems to attract a different following than the later model Esprits. I've had so many friends with '88 and earlier Esprits over the past two decades, but can't recall the last time one of them ever had one explode. Maybe Atwell, but I'm not sure and don't remember...either way, it has been a while. I am guessing that this is due to the fact that for most Esprit buyers, those who are power hungry or love to mod their Esprits have a tendency to go with an SE or newer Esprit (Renault transaxle) due to the ease of upgrades and modifications. There are a few exceptions, but from my experience, that seems to be the norm.

Yes, a disaster if it fails, but how many CWP have exploded or failed in that manner? Is it really that common? It's been quite some time since anyone posted about a failure on the forum. There are so many friends and members that have driven their bone stock '88 and earlier Esprits to very high mileage and never had a problem. One person would be Ed Young from Yahoo's TurboEsprit forum...before he left the country, he had something like 140K miles (for real) on his all-original '88 without a rebuild or a CWP problem. With Citroen transaxle-equipped Esprits having been made from '76 to '88, one would think CWP failure posts would be all over the place, but for some reason, they aren't.

I love upgrades and think it is a nice reliability improvement and upgrade to the original, no doubt about that, especially if you are in there and have it apart. However, the Citroen is not a very strong transaxle. People sometimes put down the Renault as being made of glass (it is way better than that), but the Citroen is even worse. It was never made to be used in a performance application and the shafts and gears are even less up to the task. Without an upgrade kit like the ones available for the Renault, which nobody makes for the Citroen at the moment, it is only part of the equation. Even if such a kit were to become available (which isn't likely now after so many decades), I have heard over the years that in a modded application, the housing itself is not very strong or rigid either.

Getting harder to find every day, but if one needs a CWP and can find a good used one out of a non-Esprit, it won't be heavy duty or superfinish-coated, but will be like brand new in regards to wear since it turns the other way and in Esprit applications, uses the other side of the CWP.

That said and done, if the one on my '88 blows up, you'll likely be the first person I think of, but my question is...is such an upgrade really needed or necessary for a mildly driven street Esprit? Not putting it down, just hoping for some enlightenment in case there was something I missed.

What I would love to see is for someone to pioneer an adapter/conversion kit specifically for the Esprit to run a Porsche G-50 or equivalent bulletproof transaxle for the Esprit. Now that would sell! Not only to the '88 and earlier Citroen crowd, but to all Esprit owners looking for a transaxle replacement or rock solid alternative...if someone could engineer and price it competitively.

Anyway, just my two cents....
~ Thank you for your kind words! I’m blushing…
I’m trying to show what can be done to update the older ET-s and how to do it. It is not a rocket science. Most of the mods are in “may implement” category, but there are a few “have to correct”, like Poland bearings or the dreadful Circlip.


.[…] I am guessing that this is due to the fact that for most Esprit buyers, those who are power hungry or love to mod their Esprits have a tendency to go with an SE or newer Esprit (Renault transaxle) due to the ease of upgrades and modifications.

~ Hmmm… I heard this argument in the past.
A while ago, I was told, (rather rudely), that I bought a wrong car, and SE is the way to go if I want to modify my car.
I was told that CIS system “can not be modified”! Nay…, I thought, we've sent a Man on the Moon on 1/10 of the computing power of my wrist watch!
All my life I have been HP freak, so I interpreted this comment as a challenge and decided to max out the CIS Jetronic to prove the nay-sayers wrong. CIS system is pretty rudimentary and often does not have an ECU (Esprit), hence it is easy to work with.
The only limitation of the CIS system is the MAF meter throat diameter (air flow, not a fuel distribution). If it is done right, the power output could be astonishing!
Here is an excellent example: 35 years ago, 345hp from 4 cylinders and CIS injection!!! Group A Volvo Specs

With an addition of the digital WUR , Megajolt ignition, Comp Turbo turbocharger, large throat Mercedes 560 SEL MAFM, free-flow exhaust and few engine internal mods, Loren’s “Esprit Aero” is capable of~ 400HP!
I’m right behind him...

Yes, a disaster if it fails, but how many CWP have exploded or failed in that manner? Is it really that common?
~ True, but with Polish bearings, notorious Circlip, Nylatron bushing and gears rotating in the opposite direction it is like playing a “Russian Roulette”. No one knows when and where TSWHF!

[…] one would think CWP failure posts would be all over the place, but for some reason, they aren't.
~ Well…, perhaps, by now, owners are overly cautious. Being aware of C-35 tranny limitations they are not willing to push it hard.
However, IMO this defeats the purpose of owning/driving an exotic sports car!
Friend of mine has been racing a car equipped with tuned 285-90 HP (N/A) Maserati V6 and Citroen tranny. Maserati version of the C-35 has CW “flipped” to the opposite side of the housing; hence the crown wheel is driven on the right flank of the tooth.
His last failure was in 2012.
I’m sure the N/A engines applications are quite safe and may not require the “indestructible CWP”, but turbo powered cars exceed C35 limits. If you replace OE turbocharger (restrictive turbine) with modern free flowing unit, or significantly improve VE, you’re living on the borrowed time. Often, you lose a tooth an there are no symptoms until you open the lump.

There is one other way to add strength to C-35 tranny: deep cycle Cryo-Tempering process. Whole pinion shaft with gears, bearings, etc. can be treated as one.

~ Honestly, I have not heard much about internal gears failures (except 5th gear, caused by lubricant starvation).
Several Ligier JS1 race cars were equipped with Citroen tranny in Maserati configuration 1969 - 1970 Ligier JS1 Ford Gallery Images - Ultimatecarpage.com
It is highly suspected that they may have had some internal modifications implemented.


Getting harder to find every day, but if one needs a CWP and can find a good used one out of a non-Esprit, it won't be heavy duty or superfinish-coated, but will be like brand new in regards to wear since it turns the other way and in Esprit applications, uses the other side of the CWP.
~ That sounds great, but does not change the fact that driving the CW on the coast flank of the tooth makes it 30% weaker. It is a band-aid solution and does not mitigate the root cause of the problem. My life passion is making everything as close to perfect, as possible.

That said and done, if the one on my '88 blows up, you'll likely be the first person I think of, but my question is...is such an upgrade really needed or necessary for a mildly driven street Esprit?
~Depends how you define “mildly”…, like Driving Ms Daisy, and not like 007 escaping the Villain's goons? LOL.
If you baby sit it, you’ll delay the onset of inevitable.
IMHO, the question is When, not IF.


Not putting it down, just hoping for some enlightenment in case there was something I missed.
~Thanks!

What I would love to see is for someone to pioneer an adapter/conversion kit specifically for the Esprit to run a Porsche G-50 or equivalent bulletproof transaxle for the Esprit. Now that would sell!

~ G-50 is heavier, longer and has to be run inverted. In Esprit, it creates higher half shafts incidence angle, which is not friendly to CV joints. It is not a simple task. Inboard brakes need to be tied up to the case, then need for new linkage, shafts/hubs, mounts/chassis supports, etc, etc.
Conversion from C35 to UN1 is the least cumbersome and would cost 9-11K in used parts, not including labor.
Fitting other than UN1 creates some engineering issues and additional cost.
LT member Beerman started conversion to AUDI A4 (92-03) 2wd FWD 01E, but we have not heard from him for quite a while. IMO, it has a great potential.


Not only to the '88 and earlier Citroen crowd, but to all Esprit owners looking for a transaxle replacement or rock solid alternative...if someone could engineer and price it competitively.

~ In 2014 I have attempted to compile info on couple potential alternative trannys, but the excel file is too large for LT attachment.
Ask me for a copy, if you'd like to read or continue adding to it.
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Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 07-29-2017 at 02:03 PM.
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post #129 of 227 (permalink) Old 07-29-2017, 03:50 PM
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My deposit is already down on one. I am sure that my car is making 300hp or near that, so when I put my foot down I make sure I'm not dumping the clutch or have iffy traction so as not to cause a hammer on the drive train. I'm pretty easy on mechanicals because if something goes I get to pay for it and do it! But I still look forward to having the trans "built right". I had not even considered putting it on the track because of the weakness in the trans, though many people ask me about it.

I'm looking forward to more people signing up and putting down a deposit so we can get this done.
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post #130 of 227 (permalink) Old 07-29-2017, 04:37 PM
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I don't want to focus on the G-50 in a Citroen thread, but wanted to say that in response to your comment below, that is what the Renegade Hybrids LS3 V8 G-body Turbo Esprit (now Esprit) is running. That car has already been completed and delivered to a customer in Northern California. For decades, they have been known to be the source for beefed up G-50 transaxles for kit cars, V8 Porsche conversions, and other applications.

They recently announced that in addition to LS3 conversions for Esprits, they will be selling conversion kits for do it yourselfers that prefer to do it themselves. Such a kit would have to include solutions for everything you mentioned below, except for the inboard brakes as their version is running outboard brakes.

I can't help, but wonder if those pieces used in combination with an adapter plate (designed and fabricated by someone like you) could be a viable solution for both 4 cylinder and V8 Esprits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MRDANGERUS View Post
[B]~ T

[B]~ G-50 is heavier, longer and has to be run inverted. In Esprit, it creates higher half shafts incidence angle, which is not friendly to CV joints. It is not a simple task. Inboard brakes need to be tied up to the case, then need for new linkage, shafts/hubs, mounts/chassis supports, etc, etc.
Conversion from C35 to UN1 is the least cumbersome and would cost 9-11K in used parts, not including labor.
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post #131 of 227 (permalink) Old 07-30-2017, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Esprit Transmission Alternatives

FYI:
Here they are (not in any particular order):

1. ZF 5DS25 (BMW M-1), 678 Nm (500 ft lbs), netto 145/165 lbs. Conversion pioneered by Mike Rodrigues from CA, (pictures available).

Both have LSD,
5-speed $12.500.00, wt: 150lbs, Torque 500lbs-ft
6-speed $15,000.00 165lbs, Torq550lbs-ft.
To fit into Esprit (910 engine) you'll need BMW M1 shaft configuration

RBT Transmissions
http://www.rbttrans.com/graphics/5_s...lation_new.pdf
http://www.rbttrans.com/graphics/6_s...lation_new.pdf


2. PORSCHE G50 http://www.californiamotorsports.net...05%20speed.htm

3. PORSCHE G86 http://www.californiamotorsports.net/986%20Boxster.htm

4. AUDI A4 92-03 2wd FWD 01E, 6 SPEED, 475 Nm (350 ft lbs)
Stronger than the newer ones like the 01X/0A2 due to its cast iron bearing carrier. The US never got FWD 01E boxes. All 6 speed gas/diesels in Europe to 2004 were 01E gearboxes, if that helps. The 5 speed was used 92-96. 01e is much easier found in the UK, In the USA they came in Audi A6 2.7 and many A4-s.
Advanced Automotion

5. GRIFFIN 950SS, griffingearboxes.com/Mid-Engine_Transaxles.php

So you know, Griffin 6 speed box starts at $10,950.00

6. MENDEOLA http://www.mendeolatransaxles.com/transaxles.html

Emailing Mendeola usually results in a slow response time. I simply call them...619-710-8800. Ian is at extension 110. He usually calls back the same day when you leave a message.
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post #132 of 227 (permalink) Old 07-30-2017, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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post #133 of 227 (permalink) Old 09-04-2017, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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Hey, job market has improved, so (me thinking), there should be more participants joining this group buy initiative.

I will repeat the specs, again:

It took a while, but finally, my new design has been completed!

Comparing to the original Citroen CW+P, it addresses several critical deficiencies of the old OE parts.
It offers:
- reversed direction of the spiral - to correct the OE design flaw and apply force to the correct flank of the tooth (see posts 53-60)
- larger pitch for increased tooth thickness (30% strength increase)
- revised, more robust pinion gear tooth design
- better final ratio of 1:4.286 (vs 1:4.375), which improves the top speed in gear (more "peppy" response)
- aerospace grade alloy steel (same as critical aircraft engine gears)

Here are some gear/traction calculations:

*******************************
Final Gear Ratio….: 4.286
Tire Size………....….: 275-40-18
Max Power RPM…..: 6000
Limit RPM……….....: 7100
*******************************

*********************
Gear…Ratio….Compound ratio
*********************
1 ….2.930 …....12.558
2 ….1.940 …...…8.315
3 ….1.320 …...…5.658
4 ….0.970 …..….4.157
5 ….0.760 …..….3.257

***************************************
Gear...MPH/1000....MPH @6000..…MPH @7100rpm
***************************************
1 …..........6.32…....…….38……...........…….45
2 .......…...9.54…....…….57……...........…… 68
3 …........14.02…....…….84………........…...100
4 ........…19.09.……….....115………............136
5 ........…24.36…...……...146………............173 MPH

************************************************** *****
MPH………………………RPM (in Gears)
************************************************** *****
…….....…1….…...…2…...…..3…......…4…….....…5
************************************************** *****
. 5……...791….…524…..…357....….262….....205
10…...1583…..1048…....713….....524……...411
15…...2374…..1572…..1070….....786…...…616
20…...3165…..2096…..1426…...1048…...…821

25…...3957…..2620…..1783…...1310…...1026
30…...4748…..3144…..2139…...1572…...1232
35…...5539…..3668…..2496…...1834…...1437
40…...6331…..4192…..2852…...2096…...1642
45…...7122…..4716.….3209…...2358…...1847

50………....…….5240…..3565…...2620……2053
55………....…….5764…..3922…...2882……2258
60………....…….6288…..4278…...3144……2463
65………....…….6812…..4635…...3406……2668

70………….........…..….….4991….3668…...2874
75………………........………5348….3930…...3079
80…………………..........…5704….4192…....3284
85……………………........…6061….4454…...3490
90……………………........…6417….4716…...3695
95…………………........……6774….4978…...3900
100…………….…......…….7130….5240…...4105

105…………………........……………..5502…...4311
110………………………........………..5764...…4516
115……………………….........……….6026..….4721
120……………………….........……….6288…...4926
125……………………….........……….6550…...5132
130……………………….........…….…6812...…5337
135………………………….........…….7074…...5542

140……………………………….................…...5747
145…………………………………...............……5953
150………………………………...............………6158
155………………………………...............………6363
160…………………………………...............……6568
165…………………………………...............……6774
170…………………………………..............….…6979
175………………………………............….…....7184
************************************************** *****

Gear Change.. RPM drop(change @6000) .....RPM drop (change @7100)
************************************************** ***********
1 ->2…......…-2027 (To 3973).(19.60%)..........……-2399 (To 4701)
2 ->3…......…-1918 (To 4082).(21.28%)..........……-2269 (To 4831)
3 ->4…......…-1591 (To 4409).(27.12%)..........……-1883 (To 5217)
4 ->5…......…-1299 (To 4701).(36.19%)…........……-1537 (To 5563)

I'm tempted to add one more improvement, this time, on the manufacturing side.

Unlike the Gleason and Oerlikon designs, Klingelnberg Palloid tooth profiles are generated using specially designed spiral hobs, which produce a gear tooth shape that is close to the theoretical ideal. The resulting gears tend to be stronger and more accurate with smoother running tooth forms, but Klingelnberg Palloid gear sets are generally more expensive to produce.

The Klingelnberg Advantage.
Klingelnberg Palloid gear sets are used in many demanding fields of application, including stationary gearboxes for high tech machinery and in automotive applications where large amounts of torque and/or shock loading must be delivered through the gearbox and differential section. This is because the Klingelnberg Palloid design offers some significant advantages that justify the higher production costs. Some of these advantages include:


Strength: Klingelnberg Palloid gears have a parallel slot width, which allows a fully rounded root region with the maximum possible root radii. This greatly improves resistance to bending stress and tooth fatigue. The small radius of the lengthwise curvature of the teeth and the high tooth contact ratio provided by the unique hobbing motion of this system greatly increases the load carrying capacity of the gear set while the true involute tooth form makes Klingelnberg Palloid gears less sensitive to gearbox and shaft deflections (case flex and shaft flex). In addition, it is possible to design gears with increased helix angle when necessary for certain applications. Since its inception, low sensitivity to deflection and high break-point capabilities have established this method as an effective means of preventing failures in highly stressed gearbox assemblies. In some applications, Klingelnberg Palloid gear sets can provide up to 25% more strength in the same size package.
Accuracy: Teeth are generated purely by rolling motion of the hobs, which insures a high degree of tooth form accuracy. The generating process is theoretically exact and calculation of the tooth shape is relatively simple compared to cutter head generated designs. Even under high volume production conditions, the combination of continuous indexing and a single-lead hob results in very accurate tooth forms.
Longer Gear Life: The Klingelnberg Palloid method results in extremely smooth running gear sets. The unique hobbing process provides excellent lapping conditions and enhances the inherent smooth rolling motion of the gear teeth. This feature, combined with a high tooth contact ratio, insures a long service life.
Quiet Operation: A combination of factors, including a high degree of tooth form accuracy, a high tooth contact ratio, and the fact that involute tooth forms are relatively insensitive to deflections and dislocations during final assembly of the gearbox, insure that Klingelnberg Palloid gear sets exhibit extremely good noise behavior, even when conditions are not ideal.
Small Minimum Batches: The Klingelnberg Palloid gear generating process requires less time to “dial in” the correct pattern, so there are fewer parts wasted during manufacturing. In addition, the tool setup times are short compared to the cutter head method. Hobs can be changed in a matter of minutes rather than hours. And there is no adjusting of single cutter blades, so adjustment errors are eliminated. This makes it economically feasible to make small runs of gear sets for specialty and prototype applications. This is a huge advantage over gear head cutter machines, which generally require minimum runs of 150 or more pieces.

In Summary:
- reversed direction of the spiral - to correct the OE design flaw and apply force to the correct flank of the tooth (see posts 53-60)
- larger pitch for increased tooth thickness (30% strength increase)
- revised, more robust pinion gear tooth design
- better final ratio of 1: 4.286 (vs. OE 1: 4.375), which improves the top speed in gear (more "peppy" car)
- aerospace grade alloy steel (same as critical aircraft engine gears)
- Gleason or Klingelnberg Palloid gear profile (final quote and manufacturing venue dependent)
- Cryogenic Deep Freeze Treatment

Projected cost: $1800/set.
In addition, to this:
Cryogenic Tempering - $130
My shipping to you (US and territories) $25

It came higher than expected but I'm not making a penny on this.
I went all the way out on this design. Comparing to the "regular" steel, aircraft alloy steel cost double.
Either you do it right or you won’t have reliable fix. "Go big or go home"!

I'm accepting deposits of $206/set ( $6 is for payPal fees, unless you're sending it via a "family" option)
Please, send the down payment to my PayPal at [email protected] (NOTE: there is no O in dangerUS!)

We need a minimum of 15 orders.
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Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 09-04-2017 at 08:59 PM.
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post #134 of 227 (permalink) Old 09-04-2017, 08:31 PM
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I'm in and have been for a while. Thanks for bumping this up and getting the word out Mr Dangerus, and for taking this on. What a deal! This is cheap! considering that simple replacement costs for the regular, less than robust, CW&P is close to this price. Even if you don't "need it" right now, the day will come when you will. If you are going to do it , do it right!
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post #135 of 227 (permalink) Old 09-07-2017, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenisGood View Post
I'm in and have been for a while. Thanks for bumping this up and getting the word out Mr Dangerus, and for taking this on. What a deal! This is cheap! considering that simple replacement costs for the regular, less than robust, CW&P is close to this price. Even if you don't "need it" right now, the day will come when you will. If you are going to do it , do it right!
Thank you very much for the support and your patronage.
J
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post #136 of 227 (permalink) Old 09-07-2017, 02:58 PM
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Kudos to the good work improving the Citroen C35 transaxle CW&P. That should help a lot.

One has to wonder why Lotus didn't get it sorted before launching the C35 out there on the Esprit. An aging friend of mine was an engineer with Lotus in the 1980's and he's said a few times to me that Lotus needed to get the Esprit out into production to satisfy some financing covenants in place at the time.....basically, the bank loans would have gone into default if not. This preceded him by a few years, but there was still lots of talk about the timing of it in connection with the warranty claims and owner feedback given the number of unresolved design issues still present at launch.

Thank god they launched the car however.....teething problems or not......otherwise I might be modifying a Pinto or a Gremlin or something else today.
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post #137 of 227 (permalink) Old 09-07-2017, 03:01 PM
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One related question - I believe Quaife makes an LSD for the C35. Between the CW&P fix and an LSD, would the C35 be on par with an audi/porsche transaxle? The gears and main shaft look to be of similar strength/size at least.
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post #138 of 227 (permalink) Old 09-21-2017, 07:08 PM
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What is the status of these parts? Are they actually available yet or are they still in the production or planning phase?

Steven DuChene
1974 Jensen-Healey w/Lotus 2.0L 907 with EFI & crankfired Ignition conversion
1985 Jaguar XJS 4.0L w/Getrag 5spd
1990 Lotus Esprit SE w/AWI monoblock wheels (wrecked)
1988 Lotus Esprit Turbo w/SE bodywork and burnt pistons
1988 Lotus Esprit Anniversary Edition w/Megasquirt EFI (NO CIS!)
1974 Lotus Elite (12th USA car off line)
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post #139 of 227 (permalink) Old 09-21-2017, 09:32 PM
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The Quaife ATB diff for sure is a cwp saver. The standard open diff causes many time loss of teeth.
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post #140 of 227 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by StevenD57 View Post
What is the status of these parts? Are they actually available yet or are they still in the production or planning phase?
Mr Dangerus is talking deposits ($206) to get the first batch made. He needs a minimum of 15 to get the production started. I'm in and encourage others to get on board. $1900 (about) is cheap to correct a potential grenade.
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