Citroën g/box Crown Wheel and Pinion - Page 8 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #141 of 227 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 09:44 AM
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Any idea on how many deposits Mr Dangerus is currently at?
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post #142 of 227 (permalink) Old 09-22-2017, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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post #143 of 227 (permalink) Old 10-12-2017, 08:19 AM
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Hi guys,


I am about to order a new batch ring and pinions for the Citroen SM. I ask about changing rotation and this is answer from "my" manufacturer. Very highly qualified German gear manufacturer. Easy to make right for Esprit.

Dear Mr.Martens,

thank you for your message.
If the motor is rotating the opposite direction the crown wheel hast to be on the opposite site – so this is more a assembly design problem than a crown wheel pinion set problem. But you are right: We recommend to change the direction of the spiral bevel angles on the gears from pinion 8R /8 teeth right) to 8L (8 teeth left), and from crown wheel from 35L (35 teeth left) to 35R(35 teeth right). This is no problem for our production, only we need to know in case of order.

let me know your thoughts,

cheers,

Harry Martens
www.ds-vitesse.com
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post #144 of 227 (permalink) Old 10-12-2017, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsvitesse1 View Post
Hi guys,


I am about to order a new batch ring and pinions for the Citroen SM. I ask about changing rotation and this is answer from "my" manufacturer. Very highly qualified German gear manufacturer. Easy to make right for Esprit.

Dear Mr.Martens,

thank you for your message.
If the motor is rotating the opposite direction the crown wheel hast to be on the opposite site – so this is more a assembly design problem than a crown wheel pinion set problem. But you are right: We recommend to change the direction of the spiral bevel angles on the gears from pinion 8R /8 teeth right) to 8L (8 teeth left), and from crown wheel from 35L (35 teeth left) to 35R(35 teeth right). This is no problem for our production, only we need to know in case of order.

let me know your thoughts,

cheers,

Harry Martens
www.ds-vitesse.com
That is very interesting, confirms the thoughts regarding the reverse rotation being less than optimal, if i were going to the trouble of ordering a set i think i would go pinion 8R and crown 35L
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post #145 of 227 (permalink) Old 10-16-2017, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah, sure,
except...
1. 8/35 is much weaker (thinner teeth) than 7/30 pair
2. we don't know what alloy steel they are going to use
3. bespoke Hobbs and a reverse rotation cutting machine are required, which may drive up the cost

Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 10-16-2017 at 11:27 AM.
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post #146 of 227 (permalink) Old 10-16-2017, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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Hi, coming to " my " manufacturer?

cheers,

Harry Martens
Which one Harry?
Klingelnberg, EMAG or Tandler?
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post #147 of 227 (permalink) Old 10-19-2017, 10:25 PM
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palloid pinion gear


Mat.: 18CrNiMo7-6; pre-turned; stress relieved; finished
turned; special spline ground into solid material; special
spline (z=8) hobbed*; casehardened (thread protect against
carburizing); pressfits, contact surfaces and control diameter
ground; lapped and signed in pairs


*in case of order we need a mint conditioned counterpart for
the spline to match

1 palloid bevel gear

Mat.: 18CrNiMo7-6; preturned; stress relieved; finish turned;
casehardened; borehole, pressfits, contact surfaces and
control diameter ground; lapped in pairs and signed
10 Sets
50 Sets
100 Sets


Proven German quality for many, many years. Set will cost around 1500 to 1600 euro if I order a batch of 10 units. Price will drop in case I order 100 sets but that is out of my league for investing.

If enough interest I can order a reversed rotation batch for the Giugiaro Esprit.

cheers,

Harry
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post #148 of 227 (permalink) Old 10-20-2017, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsvitesse1 View Post
palloid pinion gear


Mat.: 18CrNiMo7-6; pre-turned; stress relieved; finished
turned; special spline ground into solid material; special
spline (z=8) hobbed*; casehardened (thread protect against
carburizing); pressfits, contact surfaces and control diameter
ground; lapped and signed in pairs


*in case of order we need a mint conditioned counterpart for
the spline to match

1 palloid bevel gear

Mat.: 18CrNiMo7-6; preturned; stress relieved; finish turned;
casehardened; borehole, pressfits, contact surfaces and
control diameter ground; lapped in pairs and signed
10 Sets
50 Sets
100 Sets


Proven German quality for many, many years. Set will cost around 1500 to 1600 euro if I order a batch of 10 units. Price will drop in case I order 100 sets but that is out of my league for investing.

If enough interest I can order a reversed rotation batch for the Giugiaro Esprit.

cheers,

Harry
Harry:
Just an FYI,
The 1988 Stevens Esprit cars shipped to North America also used the same gearbox as the 1985-1987 Giugiaro Esprit.
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Steven DuChene
1974 Jensen-Healey w/Lotus 2.0L 907 with EFI & crankfired Ignition conversion
1985 Jaguar XJS 4.0L w/Getrag 5spd
1990 Lotus Esprit SE w/AWI monoblock wheels (wrecked)
1988 Lotus Esprit Turbo w/SE bodywork and burnt pistons
1988 Lotus Esprit Anniversary Edition w/Megasquirt EFI (NO CIS!)
1974 Lotus Elite (12th USA car off line)
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post #149 of 227 (permalink) Old 10-20-2017, 06:29 AM
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Harry:
Just an FYI,
The 1988 Stevens Esprit cars shipped to North America also used the same gearbox as the 1985-1987 Giugiaro Esprit.
Ok, thanks for info.

cheers,
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post #150 of 227 (permalink) Old 11-24-2017, 06:25 AM
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Pre announcement !!!


New ring and pinion sets especially made for the Lotus Esprit with Citroen gearbox will be ready in the beginning of 2018.

To start I have ordered 10 sets. Mirrored version of original Citroen SM. No other ratio. All calculated. Best ratio.

As said before:

Klingelnberg Cyclo Palloid. HPG treated.

18CrNiMo 7-6.

No need to pay deposit. Just let me know if you you want and make firm order.

cheers,

Harry Martens.
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post #151 of 227 (permalink) Old 11-24-2017, 07:23 AM Thread Starter
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Harry,

If you drop the price to a decent level, I'm pretty sure there will be high demand for reversed sets. Making money on volume is the American way (worth learning!)
Why only 10? Go Big or Go Home, LOL.
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post #152 of 227 (permalink) Old 11-24-2017, 07:31 AM
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Hi, I am just a small private company and the investment is big. So, therefore, for now just 10 set for the Lotus Esprit.

cheers,

Harry
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post #153 of 227 (permalink) Old 11-24-2017, 08:49 AM
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How much are you selling for Harry?
Thanks, Al
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post #154 of 227 (permalink) Old 11-24-2017, 10:34 AM
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Hi Al and all. For price, please pm.

cheers,

Harry Martens
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post #155 of 227 (permalink) Old 11-24-2017, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsvitesse1 View Post
palloid pinion gear


Mat.: 18CrNiMo7-6; pre-turned; stress relieved; finished
turned; special spline ground into solid material; special
spline (z=8) hobbed*; casehardened (thread protect against
carburizing); pressfits, contact surfaces and control diameter
ground; lapped and signed in pairs


*in case of order we need a mint conditioned counterpart for
the spline to match

1 palloid bevel gear

Mat.: 18CrNiMo7-6; preturned; stress relieved; finish turned;
casehardened; borehole, pressfits, contact surfaces and
control diameter ground; lapped in pairs and signed
10 Sets
50 Sets
100 Sets


Proven German quality for many, many years. Set will cost around 1500 to 1600 euro if I order a batch of 10 units. Price will drop in case I order 100 sets but that is out of my league for investing.

If enough interest I can order a reversed rotation batch for the Giugiaro Esprit.

cheers,

Harry
At asterisk you said "in case of order need a mint condition counterpart for the spine to match". So are you just saying the spine can't be worn?
Thanks,
Al
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post #156 of 227 (permalink) Old 11-24-2017, 10:34 PM
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At asterisk you said "in case of order need a mint condition counterpart for the spine to match". So are you just saying the spine can't be worn?
Thanks,
Al
Hi, that is from manufacturer. He needs counterparts to fit.

cheers,

Harry
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post #157 of 227 (permalink) Old 11-25-2017, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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My 2 cents...,here.

Price of 1650 euro, which Harry is asking, puts it in the ball park of mine! With shipping from Europe and duty fees, it will cost easily 2,100 USD, or more, per set.

Reversing the rotation will provide an additional 20% increase in strength.
In addition to this, my new design increases the pitch of both CW and pinion.
OE pinion gear, with its 8 teeth is the weakest link!
In contrast, my design reduces teeth count to 7 creating more room to increase the tooth thickness. That is the trick Harry's CWP-s would not have.
Cryo adds strength, but benefits may be limited without some meat on the bone.

Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 11-26-2017 at 08:36 AM.
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post #158 of 227 (permalink) Old 11-25-2017, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MRDANGERUS View Post
My 2 cents...,here.

Price of 1650 euro, which Harry is asking, puts it in the ball park of mine! With shipping from Europe and duty fees, it will cost easily 2,100 USD, or more, per set.

Reversing the rotation will provide an additional 20% increase in strength.
In addition to this, my new design increases the pitch of both CW and pinion.
OE pinion gear, with its 8 teeth is the weakest link!
In contrast, my design reduces teeth count to 7 creating more room to increase the tooth thickness. That is the trick Harry's CWP-s would not have.
Cryo adds strength, but benefits may be limited without some meat on the bone.

Some folks on Turbo List have jumped head first into the fire, but they never indicated any interest in the Group Buy Initiative I'm promoting.
Myopia or ignorance?
Just saying...
off course. I have spend several time with manufacturer and his gear designer discussing what would be the best option for type of teeth and ratio but we found out that the Citroen gear design is by far the best, wich has been proven over all these years, considering how many cars, both Citroen and Lotus, are still driving without any problem.
So, reversing the Citroen cwp for Lotus Esprit, changing from Gleason to Klinglnberg palloid with HPG finish will make it " bullitproof" and available in Januari 2018.
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post #159 of 227 (permalink) Old 11-25-2017, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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Well, it is a first step in the right direction, kudos for that.
Claiming it is bulletproof is different.

Harry, how sure are you?
If you're so sure, would you give your customers 10 year unlimited warranty?
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post #160 of 227 (permalink) Old 11-26-2017, 02:31 AM
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Well, it is a first step in the right direction, kudos for that.
Claiming it is bulletproof is different.

Harry, how sure are you?
If you're so sure, would you give your customers 10 year unlimited warranty?
John, very sure!! 10 years warranty? No, I give you lifetime warranty on ring and pinion. ( one restriction, yours or mine)

cheers,

Harry Martens
www.ds-vitesse.com
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