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post #41 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-15-2018, 05:36 PM
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Ouch!! So, are you saying it stripped the threads? What is the blackish stuff? some kind of thread locker? Doesn't look like aluminum.
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post #42 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-15-2018, 08:32 PM
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Yes, my Lotus head is cast from soft stuff, that's why I was using my 1/4" torque wrench to creep up to the torque spec. I've already had to put thread inserts in a bunch of the cam carrier and exhaust stud positions. A little challenging to get a drill on the bottom row while the engine is in the car!
Black stuff is probably old sealant and 33 years of corrosion.
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post #43 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-16-2018, 06:11 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah, that unfortunately happens. I've been through that a few times... I've never tried to repair the problem with the head in the car. More than one person has suggested that when the head is out get them all timeserted or helicoiled. I've not gone that far but I've helicoiled them as necessary when they failed.

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post #44 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-16-2018, 07:08 AM
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I did all mine when the head was out of the car. It is very important to get them straight going into the head. Otherwise, it'll be very difficult to thread all the bolts when attaching the cam towers!

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post #45 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-16-2018, 07:39 AM
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+1 on getting them straight. I had a simple drill-guide made. It's just a piece of 1.5" OD bar stock, 1.75" long, and center-drilled with a snug clearance hole for the tap drill required by the thread insert being used (I much prefer Timesert).

Be careful not to drill too deep. The bottom wall isn't very thick, and if you drill through then you're into the water jacket. If you do drill through, then Timeserts are available as either open-bottom sleeves, or closed-bottom cups. Installing one of the closed-bottom Timeserts with a little Loctite both restores the thread and plugs the hole into the water jacket.

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Tim Engel
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post #46 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-16-2018, 09:09 AM
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+1 on the drill guide, although I should have found thicker stock for mine.
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post #47 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-16-2018, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerman View Post
Looking good there - very familiar with that look (hanging from the HF 2 ton crane....), have had the engine in and out of my Esprit probably 7 or 8 times now....

Head gaskets do wear out....particularly in a iron block/alloy head engine...without necessarily any overheating or warping of the head. The differing thermal expansion rates of iron and (typical) alloy use for heads combined with the expected "walking" of the relative positions will wear a gasket over enough time. The more heat cycles and age, the more likely it is the gasket will wear and then eventually fail. A turbo Esprit engine is probably going to be harder on head gaskets than a lot of other engines. What you're having to fix there is as much "maintenance" as anything else.
Let's not forget the "panting", as described by Garry Kemp. I'm not clear if it is the same as liner "walking", but the end result is the same = gasket failure.
The fix is simple...
I'm of the opinion that our 910 engines should have Block Guard insert installed. Parts are not that expensive (under $100), but Esprit specific CNC program has to be developed.
IMO, this is a perfect candidate for a Group Buy initiative!

Tom M, perhaps you may lead this project, or provide dimensions?
I would buy 2 parts right away!
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post #48 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-16-2018, 10:28 AM
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I was able to do it with it on the car by making a drill guide and using the short "jobber" length drill bits and cordless right angle drill. I used a timesert as it required the smallest hole to be drilled... Grease the hole in order to catch the shavings...

Good Luck!
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post #49 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-16-2018, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
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Mr. D - Really interesting idea. Tampa bay is not the area of the country where you will find an infrastructure to develop something that sophisticated. But I think it is an idea worth pursuing. I'm really curious to see how many fellow Esprit 4 cylinder folks would be up for purchasing these and if there is is a well-situated hero who would take the task of development on.... Stabilizing the liners seems like an excellent way to minimize gasket failure due to walking. There is quite a bit of unsupported liners sticking up the there!

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post #50 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-16-2018, 12:37 PM
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Tom, everybody...
Sit tight.
I'm going to approach a couple lead manufacturers of this product and see what do they need to make parts. They look "easy", but an installation procedure may be involving.

Here is an excellent Gonzalo's thread on this subject: https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f164...0/#post5787809
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post #51 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-16-2018, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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Head is straight

Well, good news from the machinist. Head is straight. Machine shop recommends new exhaust valve guides. Ordered from JAE and on the way. Other than that Cedric says the head and valve train are in good shape. So, conclusion is gasket failure. When I get back home next week the rebuild process commences!

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post #52 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-16-2018, 03:18 PM
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Welch told me his standard procedure is to helicoil the cam carrier threads on all pre-94 910 engines, so I had Cedric do it for me.
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post #53 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-16-2018, 03:33 PM
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Closed Deck Group Buy!
If the dimensions are consistent over the life of the 4 pots and you could laser or hydro cut from sheet stock I'd be in for one. But if it's made only for the aluminum cylinder blocks, or CNC'd at great expense, not so much. I wonder if Garry Kemp or Changes have looked into one. I'd offer a paper rubbing of an early block, but my head is on, I hope for a while.

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post #54 of 103 (permalink) Old 04-16-2018, 07:09 PM
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Garry has built a few.
The most "famous" one was Stefan Ertler's 2.5L Sport 500.

I don't want to speak for Dave, but I did not hear anything a'propos.

Here is Stefan's block
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post #55 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-10-2018, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan Grey View Post
Jay at JAE said he has both and will sell either the older Goetze gasket with the rubber ring for the oil galley, or the later black composite gasket with the copper colored ring.
Is there a difference between the two head gaskets, or is it mostly a matter of preference?

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post #56 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-10-2018, 06:06 AM
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The newer S4+ Goetze gaskets are thicker, so they will reduce compression ratio a bit if fitted to older cars like your '84. (Lotus reduced the head height to compensate.)

Don't know if that is anything you can feel on a Butt Dyno...mine is still OEM.

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post #57 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-10-2018, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
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Is there a difference between the two head gaskets, or is it mostly a matter of preference?
As @carbuff said, the newer composite gaskets are thicker than the original <'94 gaskets, by about .020" IIRC.
Lotus actually lowered the deck height and the cylinder liners at that time.

SO in an earlier engine, it will lower compression a little and advance timing a bit, which is helpful if you have had the head machined (which would have raised compression, decreased valve to piston clearance, and retarded timing a bit).

There are the Lotus Goetze gaskets with a green rubber seal for the oil galley, and goldish epoxy coating on the fire rings. And then there are the black after market gaskets with a copper metal ring for the oil passage, and silver colored fire rings. They are slightly different in thickness and clamped thickness.

I prefer the Goetze style myself.

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post #58 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-10-2018, 01:53 PM
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Thqnks Atwell & Travis- my car is getting an engine-out rebuild also and I'm trying to learn what I can.

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post #59 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-12-2018, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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Progress on the rebuild. Getting things squared away on their engine. Liners installed, ARP studs and new rings installed, waiting for the bearings to come back from Swain Technologies with their slick coating. Got a lot of stuff cleaned and repainted...
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post #60 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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More progress. Got my rod and crank bearings back from Swain Tech so I was able to finish off the bottom end. Tomorrow the head and cam towers go back on!
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