Intercooling Bosch injected, non-chargecooled engine - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #41 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-22-2015, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
Glutton For Punishment
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 247
That is the same intercooler that I used for my project, but just one instead of two. No cutting and welding required though! My engine cover still fits just fine, and my oil fill is accessible as well. It was the perfect intercooler for the job.

I think I will be copying you on the oil coolers, as the one central oil cooler is right in the way.

I also like the idea of the rear mounted oil cooler(s). I hate the idea that the oil has to make such a long trip to the front of the car. I am curious how much airflow the lower sill vents (rear brake cooling?) ducts get. There is room on the inside of those holes to mount a cooler on each side. I guess the first step will be to data log the oil temp with the current cooler, then start making some changes, and see if the relocated cooler does as good of a job.

MRDangerous, are you planning on slip fit with hose clamps? I am always weary of such a high pressure fitting held by hose clamps.

1988 Lotus Esprit Turbo
2002 Lotus Esprit V8 25th Anniversary #008
Extratx is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-22-2015, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
Glutton For Punishment
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 247
Another option would be to get two of those coolers to use as the water heat exchangers and mount them behind the foglights, and leave the oil cooler in the stock location.

I have ordered my FrankenCIS to replace the WUR, and the new eWUR and the frequency valve are controlled by a microsquirt EFI computer. With that I can add a variety of sensors and data log my air and fluid temps. After all this it would have been cheaper and easier to purchase an SE or S4, but what fun would that be?

1988 Lotus Esprit Turbo
2002 Lotus Esprit V8 25th Anniversary #008
Extratx is offline  
post #43 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-22-2015, 05:18 PM
Registered User
 
Lorenstump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 643
You are thinking the right way.
There's twenty four feet of oil cooler line running through the box frame, heavy as hell, and hot as they run near the radiator tubes. Two heat exchangers on either side will be cool enough and cycle the oil three times as fast. Fans optional, they may help cool when the cars stationary or if you get stuck in traffic often, but actually block air when it's moving. Laying exchangers flat only works if they're ducted properly.
Put the C/C radiators ( heat exchangers ) up front, as this needs to be cool. Don't sandwich the exchangers on the radiator, as this will just heat the C/C.
Run the lines as you did on either side of the box frame use aluminum, lighter than hose) then hose to exchangers.
The C/C is a low pressure system and shouldn't need special clamps, the oil on the other hand is so make em stout. Quite a few opportune places for the pump, kinda depends on the pump you use. This isn't rocket science, but I guess we could make it sound that way.
Lorenstump is offline  
 
post #44 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-22-2015, 05:58 PM
Registered User
 
Lorenstump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 643
Now the K Jet that's another story...lol
Lorenstump is offline  
post #45 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-22-2015, 09:54 PM
Integrator
 
MRDANGERUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: N-East Central USA
Posts: 2,640
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Extratx View Post
MRDangerous, are you planning on slip fit with hose clamps? I am always weary of such a high pressure fitting held by hose clamps.
I've used Oetiker crimp clamps with an excellent results.
Attached Images
     
MRDANGERUS is offline  
post #46 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-23-2015, 12:43 AM
Registered User
 
Lorenstump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 643
Crimp clamps are a pretty permanent solution, ok if they were on AN fittings that can be removed. Not a good idea on pipe fittings.
You'll find you'll have to be disconnecting and adjusting hoses more often than you'd wished.
Lorenstump is offline  
post #47 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-23-2015, 07:19 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 893
I used Oetiker clamps when I did my own version of the oil line recall on my Elise. Great for permanent connections, but the key term is permanent.

2016 Chevy Cruze, manual
1987 Lotus Esprit Turbo HCi
2005 Elise
1981 DeLorean, manual, EFI conversion
delomike1049 is offline  
post #48 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 04:33 AM
Registered User
 
greentengu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Quakertown, PA
Posts: 183
Wow, I've put scores of similar (PEX and "Sharkbite") clamps in my house, which I have re-plumbed. In fact, next weekend, I'm going to use more when I install the new tankless water heater--love those things!

Both MrDangerus, Loren and delomike make excellent points: the clamps are absolutely fantastic and do not (cannot?) come off if installed properly (they have a "go/no go" gauge for measuring fitment). Just an amazing way to connect pieces.

However, to remove them can be an ordeal, as the generally available from non-online retailers clamp removal tools can be unwieldy, and their use assumes you are not working in a tight or restricted space. Sometimes, if you screw up, the "fix" can end up being cutting the hose, removing your stainless (or brass, or plastic) fitting with the clamp still attached, and removing the clamp on the bench to much swearing (or just toss the whole piece and replace with new hardware if pressed for time).

1986 Turbo Esprit HCi
greentengu is offline  
post #49 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 12:54 PM
Integrator
 
MRDANGERUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: N-East Central USA
Posts: 2,640
Garage
FYI: There are three main categories of pumps:

1. Stock IC performance: Around 15 lpm @ 50 kPa:

Bosch 392 022 010
Meziere WP136S
Johnson CM90
Jabsco 50840
Davies Craig EWP115
Pierburg CWA-200 and several other coolant pumps like the the Dayton 5PXX0 also fall into this category
Bosch 392 022 002 is a step behind the others

2. Improved IC performace: Around 20 lpm @ 70 kPa:

Peirburg CWA-50
VariMax 410110
Camero ZL-1

3. Best IC performance: Around 25 lpm @ 100 kPa:

Pierburg CWA-100
Flojet DC40/10
Corvette ZR-1
Stuart Turner 12/50
Jabsco 50860
Stewart-EMP E2512A would also be in this category, as Lingenfelter measured the installed flow the same as the ZR-1
Pierburg CWA-400 scrapes into this category, but its a coolant pump, and would be stalled as an IC pump
Attached Images
 

Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 05-25-2015 at 09:44 PM.
MRDANGERUS is offline  
post #50 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 01:43 PM
Registered User
 
Vulcan Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 4,846
that Jabsco 50860 is not rated for continuous use (30min on 30 min off). The 50840 is rated for a much longer life and continuous, and is really more than enough for the Esprit Chargecooler system.

Travis
Vulcan Grey Esprit 89 SE

My Lotus Project Photo Collection
Vulcan Grey is offline  
post #51 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 02:03 PM
Registered User
 
Lorenstump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 643
Even the Bosch 002 is running 5.3 gallons per minute. With my system containing less than 2 gallons, it's cycling the system 2 1/2 times a minute. In my previous C/C system it worked great.
The Jabsco at 30 gpm is pricey, large, heavy and overkill in my opinion.
Lorenstump is offline  
post #52 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 09:02 PM
Integrator
 
MRDANGERUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: N-East Central USA
Posts: 2,640
Garage
Thank you Travis,
Jabsco 50840 is a perfect pump for the job.

Pierburg pumps are equally good.
http://www.pierburg-service.de/ximag...mtzextrako.pdf

Usually, the HE is the most restrictive element and has to be chosen carefully.
Attached Images
   

Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 05-25-2015 at 09:14 PM.
MRDANGERUS is offline  
post #53 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-25-2015, 10:31 PM
Registered User
 
Lorenstump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 643
Stock was 15 lpm

Improved was 20 lpm

Best was 25 lpm

The Jabsco 50840 is 113.55 lpm.

That cycles 2 gal in 4 sec. Overkill
Lorenstump is offline  
post #54 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 06:52 AM
Integrator
 
MRDANGERUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: N-East Central USA
Posts: 2,640
Garage
FYI:

Possible HE donor, if you can not get the Lotus OE HE (w/ 5/8" in/out fittings) is

CX Racing CXR-OC-03 22"x5.5"x2.5" Aluminum Universal Oil Cooler [Core Size: 17.5x5.5x2.5 inch]


The rule of thumb is that CC and HE should have twice the volume of the engine displacement.

Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 05-26-2015 at 10:44 PM.
MRDANGERUS is offline  
post #55 of 123 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 07:49 AM
Integrator
 
MRDANGERUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: N-East Central USA
Posts: 2,640
Garage
MRDANGERUS is offline  
post #56 of 123 (permalink) Old 07-16-2015, 02:50 PM
Integrator
 
MRDANGERUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: N-East Central USA
Posts: 2,640
Garage
When it comes to choosing a heat exchanger (HE) matrix, depending on your charge cooler actual cooling surface size, you have only a few choices. The HE height is the limiting factor.

For example:
One SETRAB 50-920-7612 extra wide, 19 row cooler has ~1,014 in^2 of the cooling surface
One EARL's 81900 series, extra wide, 19 row cooler has ~ 434 in^2
OEM V8 HE, 36" wide x 8.75"x 1.75 deep cooler matrix has ~4,960 in^2, WOW!

The HE surface should be larger than the surface of the charge cooler used for the conversion. Larger is better.

OE charge cooler cooling surface = 575 in^2

Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 07-20-2015 at 09:23 PM.
MRDANGERUS is offline  
post #57 of 123 (permalink) Old 07-21-2015, 11:00 AM
Integrator
 
MRDANGERUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: N-East Central USA
Posts: 2,640
Garage
I decided to locate my Jabsco Cyclone pump in the RH nose cavity, away from the heat of engine compartment
Attached Images
 
MRDANGERUS is offline  
post #58 of 123 (permalink) Old 07-22-2015, 11:09 AM
Registered User
 
Vulcan Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 4,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRDANGERUS View Post
I decided to locate my Jabsco Cyclone pump in the RH nose cavity, away from the heat of engine compartment
That's not a bad idea, but in that location is it low enough to stay primed? That pump is not self priming.

Travis
Vulcan Grey Esprit 89 SE

My Lotus Project Photo Collection
Vulcan Grey is offline  
post #59 of 123 (permalink) Old 07-22-2015, 07:02 PM
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenstump View Post
Yep, a big part of the C/C system is that stupid, heavy, restrictive, box shaped plenum. A pretty simple foam positive mold and a little carbon fiber not only makes the volume larger and the shape more efficient, but weighs 1/10 of the original. Taking stress off the intake manifold and increasing plenum diameter improves flow and efficiently.
wow man...............wow.
mpesik is offline  
post #60 of 123 (permalink) Old 07-23-2015, 06:43 AM
Integrator
 
MRDANGERUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: N-East Central USA
Posts: 2,640
Garage
MRDANGERUS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Lotus Esprit

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome