Intercooling Bosch injected, non-chargecooled engine - Page 6 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #101 of 123 (permalink) Old 06-27-2017, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRDANGERUS View Post
Dual section chargecooler = higher thermal efficiency, depending how you hook up the cold coolant flow.


The design used by Lotus on the '89 SE-'95 S4s charge cooler is a 2-2 Countercurrent style heat exchanger, which is actually more efficient than a single pass "parallel flow" style heat exchanger. *But it's pretty obvious that Lotus also chose the 2-2 countercurrent style heat exchanger, because the packaging works really well in the Esprit engine bay.

It looks like Lotus might have also used this on the Evora 400.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_exchanger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countercurrent_exchange



This is the 2-2 countercurrent type, same as Lotus.





The single pass "parallel-flow" style is "B"

And the 2-2 countercurrent is "A"




"The counter current design is the most efficient, in that it can transfer the most heat from the heat (transfer) medium due to the fact that the average temperature difference along any unit length is greater."




For comparison the single pass "parallel-flow" type looks like this.



and the 2-pass "crossflow" looks like this (which really wouldn't work with the air-water and packaging in the Esprit very well).



Esprit SE chargecooler system


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Last edited by Vulcan Grey; 06-27-2017 at 09:20 AM.
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post #102 of 123 (permalink) Old 06-27-2017, 11:43 AM
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When we talk about modifications to the CIS system including adding a C/C there is WAY more to it. I know, I have been there and currently still am years later.
Overriding mechanical systems with digital is hugely more complicated than I originally thought.
The mechanical systems will continuously battle with the digital resulting in warm up, idle and AFR problems. I'm solving them but not without much head scratching and headaches.....lol
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post #103 of 123 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 08:44 AM
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Aw man I wish more of you extreme guys had modern injection. I am so lost right now. I read the engine manual cover to cover. Searched the interweb to come back here. Freaking got three great builders talking to me. "Thanks guys" and I dont know where to start.
IDEA: I think the best option is to get a bigggg honda airdam and do my camber way in then cut the springs. ROFL

But to be honest. Since I have an engine that I know is like new I probably am going to start knocking out regular weak links. Rads. Movig the oil cooler... Dumb dumb DUMB!!! Design!!! I hope I still have my race cooler. If I dont that is probably going to have to go on the back list too until I get the audi sold. But its probably going where my muffler is and my muffler is going to take a new posistion in the garage while I make a dump with a wide band. Where are you guys putting these widebands?? The display part... U know the usually ugly pos that no one can figure out how to make printable faces to match the car for?

Another thing I can ditch this engine cover right? It doesnt do aa darn thing right? I like Loren's car. Engine is open to see.



But seriousley guys. Keep it coming truly inspiring work. Julia roberts or Esprit....Esprit.
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post #104 of 123 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 08:46 AM
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I ramble off course a bit but what I mean to say is. Do you remember this photo? What car is it? Give you a hint movie starts with a w and the car name starts with an M.

And. Daaaanggggg you guys are doing a great job.
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post #105 of 123 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 12:35 PM
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I can ditch this engine cover right? It doesnt do darn thing right?

The engine cover is covered in foil on the inside. Don't know if this is to reduce ignition interference or reflect heat...

But, it DOES noticeably reduce cabin noise, if that is important to you.

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post #106 of 123 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 01:34 PM
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That's from the Wraith movie...



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post #107 of 123 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 01:49 PM
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It's just a thirteen pound pot lid designed the hide the supercar four cylinder....lol
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post #108 of 123 (permalink) Old 08-13-2017, 06:50 PM
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It goes and Mines going to get a larger charge cooler. The car is named the DODGE M4S it is the only dodge I like.
My point of the photo is engines are beautiful. 13lbs! I struggled to ditch that much in one go on other cars!
The M4s was a 4cylinder and if you saw the real engine it looked great too.

Back on topic. Loren you have CIS and a big cooler. Is it self made?
I am actually having trouble finding info on coolers. Is the radial style cooler tested as more efficient in anything that was water to air cooled? or is it just a big plug in the pipe. The photo posted looked like a lot of fins. I am asking because of lack of data besides product brochures.
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post #109 of 123 (permalink) Old 09-05-2017, 09:17 AM
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Here is a handy pressure drop calculator, which can be used for calculation of plumbing losses and pump output requirements

Pressure Drop Online-Calculator

.

Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 09-05-2017 at 09:33 AM.
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post #110 of 123 (permalink) Old 11-25-2017, 03:18 PM
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Heat Transfer vs. coolant mass flow

Some individuals insist, that because of the higher coolant velocity (if we use a higher volume pump), the heat transfer in the HE/radiator is lower, because "the heat does not have enough time to convect out of the coolant, due to flow being too fast".
IMO: a shear heresy.

The equations cited in this paper
http://jullio.pe.kr/fluent6.1/help/html/ug/node245.htm
show the only time dependent element,which is m, (fluid mass flow rate, kg/s), is in the numerator, hence the heat flux q (W/m^2) shall increase proportionally to the fluid mass flow rate, (eq. 6.21-6). In another words, larger the pump trough-put - the higher heat transfer and efficiency of the exchange.

The same is true for the heat transfer coefficient, h, in eq. 6.21-7.

Some individuals are probably thinking in terms of the coolant temperature change (delta t), which is different. Higher flow will certainly result in a lower coolant temperature change, but that is actually desirable, as it's associated with a lower thermal resistance of that heat exchanger. At a system level, that is what you want to achieve. The lower coolant temperature change is compensated by the higher coolant flow rate, and the reduction in the latter is greater than the decrease in the former.

Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 11-26-2017 at 07:14 AM.
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post #111 of 123 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 08:55 AM
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FYI:
Suitable CC coolant pump, light, inexpensive, has variable speed control

12V DC Speed Adjustable Micro Circulation Water Pump DC50A-1235A (eBay)[or 1240A]
Working voltage range: 5-12V DC
Max static lift: 3.5m (11ft)
Driving Mechanism: Brushless DC design, soft start
Dimension & weight: 115.9mmx95.5mmx69.3mm; ~650g
Flow Rate: Max 50L/Min (13 US GAL/Min)
Matching liquid medium: Water, Oil, Weak acid or Weak alkali solution, etc Model: DC50A-1235A
Max Working Temperature: Can be up to 100C (Hot water)
Installation Requirement: Amphibious installation (not self-priming)
Rated voltage: 12V DC

ALSO:
EBP40 (Part #9040) (Davies Craig pump) works pretty well. Both weigh nothing comparing to other "usual" pumps.
37 litre per minute, brush-less, magnetically driven EBP® has drawn high acclaim globally for its diversity of
applications.

Technical Specifications
12 Volt Pump
Motor 12 Volt Brushless

Operating voltage 9V DC to 15V DC

Maximum current 4.6A @ 12V

Flow rate (max) 37 L/min (9.8 US gal/min)

Maximum Pump Pressure 0.88 Bar (12.76 psi)

Operating temp. -40° to 120°C or (-40° to 248°F)

Pump design Recirculating centrifugal

Pump weight 570 grams (1.26 lb)

Pump material PPS / PA66

Burst pressure 250 kPa (36 psi)

Fits hose sizes 19mm (¾”)

Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 01-06-2018 at 10:22 AM.
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post #112 of 123 (permalink) Old 03-20-2018, 07:51 PM
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CIS Esprits don't have an ECU which would shut down the boost when chargecooler system fails.
Hence, I decided to install an additional safety feature, Aqualarm coolant flow detector 306LF. If, for any reason, coolant stops flowing, the sensor will ground the boost solenoid.
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post #113 of 123 (permalink) Old 03-26-2018, 12:09 PM
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When plumbing the intercooler system, if you need to connect 5/8 ID hoses, don't use 5/8" couplings. They are too restrictive.
Instead, buy on eBay "Zurn" 3/4 in. Dia. x 3/4 in. Dia. Barb To Barb PEX Couplings. They are 17-18mm OD and rubber hose will accept them very well if you dip the end in boiling water for 15 seconds.
"Shark Bite-s" couplings walls are too thick and restrict ID too much.

P.S. I have used 1" hoses/pipes when fitting my cc.
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post #114 of 123 (permalink) Old 10-21-2018, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRDANGERUS View Post
FYI:
Suitable CC coolant pump, light, inexpensive, has variable speed control. ( Installed by PO on my S4s with some bathroom plumbing accoutrements. On the left.)

12V DC Speed Adjustable Micro Circulation Water Pump DC50A-1235A (eBay)[or 1240A]
Working voltage range: 5-12V DC
Max static lift: 3.5m (11ft)
Driving Mechanism: Brush-less DC design, soft start
Dimension & weight: 115.9mmx95.5mmx69.3mm; ~650g
Flow Rate: Max 50L/Min (13 US GAL/Min @3M head)

ALSO:
EBP40 (Part #9040) (Davies Craig pump) works pretty well. Both weigh nothing comparing to other "usual" pumps.
37 litre per minute, brush-less, magnetically driven EBP® has drawn high acclaim globally for its diversity of
applications.
By now, I have tried both pumps.
EBP40 is definitely the way to go. Light weight and very powerful; has a magnetic drive = no leaks whatsoever. Now, c/cooler feels v. cold after a spirited run.

Pierburg CWP50 is slightly better and CWP100 packs a wallop, but is larger.
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Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 10-27-2018 at 12:04 PM.
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post #115 of 123 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRDANGERUS View Post
Dual section chargecooler = higher thermal efficiency, depending how you hook up the cold coolant flow.
Actually, this must be more efficient cooling mode, parallel counter flow.
Look at this Hamann charge cooler hook up. Observe the tape markings.
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Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 10-29-2018 at 11:23 AM.
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post #116 of 123 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 03:14 PM
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You're not going to find those hose clamps at the hardware store!

I would think it would be hard to get good flow through those banjo fittings they needed for packaging. Maybe they could of welded on some barbed elbows, hard lines or angled exits while they were welding up the unit.

1985 BRG Turbo Esprit
Chargecooled w/Megasquirt EFI
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post #117 of 123 (permalink) Old 10-29-2018, 03:24 PM
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No, not at the regular hardware store, but on the web=YES.
Enter web search for "Puradyn banjos". For a better flow, cross-drill them (4 holes instead of only 2)
Voila!
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post #118 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 02:54 PM
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Increased performance of tandem pumps

Small diameter of the lines between front HE and a chargecooler creates a significant pressure drop, which is true, even if you upgrade, to an electric pump.
Short of replacing lines with 1" OD ally tubing, you may try installing two pumps in-series, one @ front and the other near c/cooler.
Here is a study illustrating benefits of such arrangement.
.
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post #119 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MRDANGERUS View Post
Some individuals insist, that because of the higher coolant velocity (if we use a higher volume pump), the heat transfer in the HE/radiator is lower, because "the heat does not have enough time to convect out of the coolant, due to flow being too fast".
who says that? The coolant can be too slow but never too fast. Speeds and feeds. Like conveyors in series, the coolant is like the final conveyor. Too slow and heat absorption becomes saturated. Equal or faster absorbs the heat until capacity is reached (at the radiator, the actual final conveyor)
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post #120 of 123 (permalink) Old 02-02-2019, 10:30 AM
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Who says that?
Well, some poorly educated folks who never took course of Physics.

I don't want to drop any names (yet).
I'd like to give them some time to repent, LOL.


BTW, FYI, older LEW/LF thread : https://www.thelotusforums.com/forum...-chargecooler/

.

Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 03-02-2019 at 01:34 PM.
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