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Lower cost Bilstein option!

66K views 206 replies 40 participants last post by  MRDANGERUS 
#1 · (Edited)
I was talking to Bilstein USA today and they told me that if I give them the extended and collapsed length of the stock shock, they would come up with a standard part number that would would great for our cars. The shock would most likely be standard part number non coilover type shock that would be easy for anyone to order from anyone selling Bilstein. They sell a kit to convert this shock to adjustable coilover for $80 per shock. Many other aftermarket suppliers sell similar kits as well. Summit Racing sell the 2.5" kit for $37 per shock! The coilover conversion kits all use the standard 2.5" ID spring that is available dirt cheap from just about anyone making springs. This would give us pretty much any srping rate we want.

Does anyone have a stock front and rear shock off a car and provide these measurements?

I have used Bilstein's on previous cars including a replica Cobra. I love their shocks. They are not adustable like some, but they are self adjusting and give a superb ride that stiffens up automatically when the car is pushed.

BTW, I am also starting to work on a cost effective big brake option for my car. I have built my own kits in the past and was a major supplier to the Mini Cooper racers until it got to be too much to manage and keep my day job. I sold the project to Detroit tuned. The kit I sold to the Mini Cooper racers used an OEM Toyota TRD rotor from the Twin Turbo Supra, with Outlaw calipers and SS Goodridge brake lines. I am looking to do something similar on my car. If the Supra rotor will work, 17" wheel are required, the non turbo Supra rotor requires 16" wheels.
 
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#2 ·
Bilstein is definitely considered one of the best, but you might want to check into the Protechs. They are height and dampening adjustable coil overs that fit easily onto the Esprit and they are not expensive. I have had them for a few months, and I doubt I would tell the difference over Bilsteins (which I have used on 911's).
 
#9 ·
What you are paying for is the engineering of the components precisely matched to the cars capability by one of the premier suspension companies in the world. I have seen the Lotus supplied replacement shock package on a shock dyno and they are as close to theoretically perfect as possible, yes they are expensive compared to other Bilstien shocks. I do wish I could afford them.
 
#11 ·
That's what you WERE paying for when they first came out. Not any more.

Now you are paying for their rarity because of low supplies. They are a lot more expensive now than when they came out and Lotus is not ordering them in big batches that would bring the cost down. At least that's what one of the parts sellers told me.
 
#16 · (Edited)
I just spoke to Bilstein and gave them all the data inluding typical corner weights, spring rates and the link to the shock data. They make a ton of shocks. They will see if they have an existing yellow body shock that is suitable. With some standard part numbers it will be easier and cheaper to order.

I have experienced Bilstein on other cars and read the driving impressions from the link above on LEW. I agree with the comments on the link. They don't feel soft but do make a bumpy road feel like it was repaved. They firm up when you push the car. They self adjust.

BTW, Lotus used a non coilover yellow body shock with a spring perch added to it. I will do the same but use a theaded perch for ride height adjustability. Non ride height adjustable was a common knock on the Lotus setep.

Now I have to just sit back and wait to hear from Bilstein. Lets hope something suitable already exists.

For grins, I called the Dallas Lotus dealer to see what the cost and availability was on the official Lotus setup. I was told $3,300 plus about $264 tax, but they are not currently available from Lotus and Lotus is blaming Bilstein for lack of inventory. $3,300 should be easy to beat. Average Ebay price for four new shocks is about $450, coilover conversion kit from Summit Racing is $37 each, Srings are about $40 each. That comes to about $758.00 total or about 80% cheaper than Lotus.
 
#17 ·
I recently got a pair of rear Bilstein "dampers" for my S4s from JAE for $870. Even though they were supposed to have exact fit, they required machining of the bottom spring support so that the coil-overs would fit.
 
#18 ·
Did you use stock springs? If they are the Lotus development shocks they would probably have both a Bilstein and Lotus part number. Can you tell me the Bilstein part number? Bilstein has a kit to install coilovers on their yellow shocks but They require a 2.5" ID spring.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I kept my original springs. The #s are worn off on the side I can see the label. I'd have to crawl under to see the other side - maybe later. The remaining #s are:

F4-BE5-C607-T..
LOTAC05405
 

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#22 ·
Here are the part number I got from Bilstein

24-020541 rear
24-187824 front

The rears are from a C4 Corvette and the fronts from a Nissan Frontier. The rear shocks should be very close, but the fronts may have too much rebound. Bilstein suggested I give it a try and if needed Bilstein's can be re-valved. Bilstein can do this or some shops that revalve shocks can do this.

You can enter these part numbers into Ebay and find them for very good prices.

To use these as coil overs you need coilover kits from Bilstein or other seller on Ebay. The kit you use needs to be for a 2.5" diameter shock. Most of these kits require machining a groove into the shock body for a circlip that holds the threaded sleeve. You will also need springs. $2.5 ID springs are needed and can be found in any spring rate on Ebay for cheap. Not sure of the spring length needed and will try to get that info from Bilstein.

After checking some prices, you could put together a complete set for $500-$700
 
#161 · (Edited)
Here are the part number I got from Bilstein

24-020541 rear
24-187824 front


The rears are from a C4 Corvette and the fronts from a Nissan Frontier. The rear shocks should be very close, but the fronts may have too much rebound. Bilstein suggested I give it a try and if needed Bilstein's can be re-valved. Bilstein can do this or some shops that revalve shocks can do this.

You can enter these part numbers into Ebay and find them for very good prices.

To use these as coil overs you need coilover kits from Bilstein or other seller on Ebay. The kit you use needs to be for a 2.5" diameter shock. Most of these kits require machining a groove into the shock body for a circlip that holds the threaded sleeve. You will also need springs. $2.5 ID springs are needed and can be found in any spring rate on Ebay for cheap. Not sure of the spring length needed and will try to get that info from Bilstein.

After checking some prices, you could put together a complete set for $500-$700
You may follow this information ( page 2 of this thread), and save some coin. They are listed on eBay for less than 100 bucks. The only drawback is that they are non-adjustable, whilst GAZ and QA-1 are.
 
#23 ·
Speaking of machining.... I have the Lotus/Bilstein/Eibach setup on my S4s. They are on the lower suspension height, which is at least as high as stock. The front is still a bit high for my liking. Would it be possible to take the front shocks to a machine shop and have another groove added to lower them, or would it be easier to just have a machine shop trim just a bit off the springs?
 
#25 ·
While you can cut the coil, what I would do is by the coil over kit which requires the groove to be cut in the shock. Maybe you will get lucky and one of the grooves you already have will work or a machine shop can add the groove for you. the fixed posistion seat you have is held to the shock the same way the adjustable sleeve is. Really anyone with the Bilsteins you have can change them to fully adjustable.
 
#24 ·
Never trim the spring -- well known fact. You will not be happy with the ride if you do that.

There are companies that can make any spring you want to order for about $300 a pair. I did that for a car and they worked/fit great.

As cool as it is to have Bilsteins, that's a lot of work and bother for about the same cash as the Protechs that are fully ride and dampening adjustable.


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 
#26 ·
I have read everthing possible on the Protech's, and haven't found anyone really singing its praises. but the guys with Bilsteins are in LOVE! What people are saying about the Bilstein's is similar to my past experience with them. I already have GAZ shocks on my car and read the same guy designed the Protech and GAZ. The only twin tube shock that really impressed me was Koni. Bilstein is a mono tube design which does have some advantages. I know on paper a fully adjustable shock sounds great!, but I can adjust my shocks all day long and I still can't get the ride quality I am looking for. Another cool trick you can do with Bilstein's is welding a schrader valve into the base which allows you to vary the nitrogen pressure.
 
#27 ·
I'll sing the praises of the ProTechs. I had Bilstein PSS9 on my 996 Porsche, and they weren't any better than the ProTechs on my Esprit. In fact, the Bilsteins on the front cluncked like crazy unless you put the stiffness setting way up.

I love the way my Esprit rides and corners with ProTechs.
 
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#37 ·
I'm happy to sing the praises of the Protech's on my '02 V8 as well. I got the set that is separately adjustable for bump and rebound (in addition to height adjustment) and while this gives me an infinite number of ways to screw things up, it also gives me the adjustability of tuning things up (and to run harder during track days and softer when I'm off the track). Also, it seems like a good value for a setup that just installs without having to do much investigation and exploration to find something. To me it seems like a good value solution from one of the suppliers that spoends a lot of energies supporting our cars.

Knut
 
#29 · (Edited)
`I have been watching Ebay like a vulture and was able to get a pair of the Bilstein's for the rear for $105 shipped! I will buy the coilover conversion kit after the shocks arrive and I measure the length of the tube. I believe I will need a kit with the 5 inch long threaded tubes. coilover conversion kits for Bilstein can be had for $37 plus 16 shipping for each shock. I am finding springs for $20 each. It looks like the rear springs will be 12 inches long and 2.5 inch ID.

I was also able to find out what is on my car now. The springs are marked KW 70-250. I called KW and they said my rear springs are 400 pound linear rate springs! No wonder it is rock hard! KW suggested 200# front and 220# rear. They said upping the rear a little over the front will reduce understeer and make the car handle more nuetral. Thoughts?

It looks like the completed rear setup will cost a total of $252. I should be able to do the fronts for about the same. If I end up with a complete setup for the car for around $500 I will be very pleased. If the valving needs work, there are plenty of race shops that can re-valve a Bilstein for me.

UPDATE:

Just found and bought a great coilover conversion kit made for Bilstein shocks. Cost for a pair was $87.53 shipped, with springs, I am now down to $232.53 for a complete rear set up.

Latest update: Just worked a deal for springs at only $10.00 each! They are from Nascar Driver Dave Blaney's son's race car. They are getting out of the class they are in and selling everything. they have a huge stockpile of spare parts new and used. I bought what I needed for all four shocks for $40 plus $20 shipping. I now have bought everything I need to complete two rear coilover Bilstein shocks for $222.53 and already purchased the springs for the front. The fronts will need another pair of coilover kits for 87.53 plus shocks that I can buy new on Ebay at any time for $150 a pair. If I don't find a better deal for the front shocks, the fronts will end up costing 267.53 which comes to only $490 for all four shocks!!

 
#149 ·
Bilstein option



Hello,

I have a couple of questions on the lower cost Bilstein upgrade:

Will the Bilstein shocks & coil-over kit fit the '90 Esprit SE?

Will I have to replace my springs with a coil-over kit for Bilstein?

Is there a part number for the coil-over kit specific to the Lotus Esprit?
 
#32 ·
I wouldn't know how to add this but will provide a how to and part needed once I have tested this out.

Excellent updates. I was really excited to see the factory lotus upgrade but for their cost and product line used, I was disappointed. Thanks again.

agreed, When I looked at the lotus/Bilstein setup and the cost, I recognized the line of shocks and the Eibach springs and thought, "they are out of their minds!" I know the cost of the parts they used. I am using the same quality of parts and will be able to adjust the ride height. The hard part is doing all the math to figure out spring rate and length. The Lotus version seems to use pretty long springs which tells me they are using rates very close to stock and also need the length to pre-load for ride height. The spings I bought are 13 inches long which will make them harder to get together but will also give me a good static length at ride height. If I got this wrong, springs are cheap.
 
#33 ·
A how-to and parts list would be a great service. I am not familiar with using these coil-over add-on kits and would like to get an explanation of how they operate and what is necessary to install them. I'm not clear on how they are fixed to the shock tube to form the lower perch for the spring.
 
#34 ·
If you look at the picture, you will see a found circlip. this is pushed down over the the shock body and snaps into a groove. It does not fit flush with the shock body but sticks out a little. then the threaded tube is pushed down over this circlip and snaps into place. This is also how the non adjustable lower spring pad fits on the Lotus/Bilstein shock. I am still learning as I go, but I believe that some of the stock upper parts are used at the top and not the top mount that comes with the kit. I will find out when I go to install them. I should have the parts and ready to install by next weekend.
 
#35 ·
Thanks! I understand - so the shock tube does not require any machining. And what about at the top? The cone shaped piece looks like it is meant to slip over the rode end of the shock (I' guessing). Does it articulate with the rubber boot which cushions the top of the OEM shock? Or does it substitute?
 
#36 ·
I have heard conflicting informaiton about is the groove is already in the shock or has to be machined. Also not sure about the top mounting. I haven't taken my shocks off yet but it looks like you resuse the stock upper parts. I will find out soon.
 
#38 ·
I’m a little late to this. I’ve been absent for the past few months with other “stuff” going on.

I see you’ve already bought you’re hardware. I don’t think you’ve installed yet, though, so maybe this info will help still.

The spring rate/length/damper question is more complex than it might seem because Lotus was always fiddling with it to make performance improvements, meet ride height regulations, and adjust oversteer/understeer characteristics. Here are a few specific model specs that might help.

Non-SE 89:
Front: Rate – 22.8 N/mm / 130 Lb/in, Free Length – 369mm, Static Length – 203mm
Rear: Rate – 27.5 N/mm / 157 Lb/in, Free Length – 334mm, Static Length – 205.7mm

SE
Front: Rate – 29.1 N/mm /166 Lb/in, Free Length – 372mm, Static Length – 219mm
Rear: Rate – 27.5 N/mm / 157 Lb/in, Free Length – 347mm, Static Length – 218mm

S4/S4s
Front: Rate – 41 N/mm / 234 Lb/in, Free Length - N/A, Static Length – 214mm
Rear: Rate – 45 N/mm / 257 Lb/in, Free Length - N/A, Static Length – 227mm

The front damper platform height for each of these measurements is 59mm. The rear platform height is 115mm.

The extended/compressed length for the front is 12in./10in., and the rear is 16in./12in.

I hope this helps.
 
#39 ·
Thank you! Great information that I wish I had sooner. I had to figure out most that on my own, but it looks like I am in the ballpark. I decided to go with 13" long springs that are 225# front and 250# rear which looks close to the S4/S4s. I also think this is close to the V8 springs. I went with these rates because I am going to V8 size wheels and tires and will be installing a V8 (Ford DOHC Coyote 5.0 that weighs less than the Lotus V8 engine)

I guessed that I would end up with about 3-4 inches of pre-load on these springs at ride height. Lotus would have a much tougher time getting the spring rate and free length figured out becuase they have a fixed perch. Since I went adjustable, I only have to be in the ballpark. I recieved the springs today and the shocks and coilover conversion kits came yesterday. The circlips were missing from the kits, so Speedway performance is going to send them on Monday. I still need to buy the front shocks. Not sure I want to do much testing until I can put on all four. Since my car currently has 400# racing springs, just doing one end might make the car dangerous. Also the shoocks do not have a groove for the circlips so I will have to have my machinist do this. I know this is acceptable becuase Bilstein was going to sell me their kit (twice as much) and told me to have the groove cut in the shock. I believe you want the groove cut so that .120" of the ring is above the shock body. Once the groove is in place, you just drop the thread sleeve onto the shock.
 
#41 ·
Yes great info. I can almost set ride height without putting the car on the ground! I will probably get the ride height set where I like it and then do the final fine tuning on scales. the car was previosly corner weighted by the previous owner. wish I had that information as the car is very nuetral with no understeer. Just wish it didn't ride like a track only car on these crappy Texas roads.
 
#42 ·
I have done something similar with my 83 Esprit, only I used QA1 shocks (adj rebound). I utilized the stock upper spring perches in the frame front and rear. For the front it was pretty much mandatory I do this or otherwise I would have needed to do some cutting to clearance the the springs to do a true coil-over. For the 1985 and up cars this isn't necessary.

On the rear you dont need to use the stock upper spring perch but I did so because the rubber bushes that were supplied with the shock were pounded out pretty quick by taking the spring load directly. I might have gotten away with using polyurethane but it was easy enough to make some adapters to use the stock upper spring perch.

I used 2.5" I.D. (Hypercoil) springs and have 225# (8" length) front and 225# rear (10" length). I feel the rears are a bit soft and I will probably try some 250#.

Jeff
 
#43 ·
Thank you for the info. I will be using the stock upper perches as well. I don't have the stock springs or shocks as my car had GAZ coilovers when I bought it. I can tell from looking that the Gaz setup is using the stock upper parts. It does sound like you did pretty much the same exact thing.
 
#45 ·
Update:

I dropped the rear shocks off with a machinest and they are maching the groove for the snap ring. I have ordered the fron shocks and waiting for them to arrive. I also found this interesting ad on Ebay. While this setup is not for an Esprit, the components are very similar. This shoud give you an idea of the Lotus Tax rate!

Bilstein coilover Shock Spring Strut Kit Front Rear Pontiac GXP Saturn Sky | eBay
 
#46 ·
Lantana.. Any updates? Installed? If so coments on ride harshness, etc., etc.?

Will these fit a 1994 S4?
 
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