Primary Injectors Back to the begining! - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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Primary Injectors Back to the begining!

Hi everyone so my car has not been running for about 4 weeks. It will start when cold and run only for a few minuets before it will stall. It feels like the same issue/issues I had before. I'm starting back at the beginning again and I have a question about aftermarket primary injectors. So I'm using Five "O" Racing injectors and although the car has never felt like I got back to 100% performance they have performed ok for the last 2 years (although I've always felt there was some performance loss). I've redone the larger vacuum lines twice (not done the hard plastic one to the map sensor) and while I was in there I measured the injectors resistance and they were all between 2.7 and 2.9 Ohms. Does anybody know if this is too high and adding to my issues. Like I say they have been in and working to a degree. I think the original Rochester injectors where much closer to 2 or 2.1 Ohms??
I was able to hook up "Freescan" after borrowing a friends OBD1 cable, although it never seemed to complete the scan even running for 1-15 minuets and ONLY after the car started to run really badly prior to stalling did it return an error "65" which might be the battery or charging as by that point I was probably around 500 rpm. Freescan also closed when the car stalled and the file that it did save was basically empty.
Noticed today #4 spark plug was totally black and dusty again.
New wires
New coils
K&N air filter
Plugs are 2 years old
New soft vacuum lines

Many thanks
Chris.

93.5 SE
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 05:11 PM
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Sounds like you are having a problem with one or more of the systems that operate during the warm-up. Also check the idle system, if it is working correctly the idle should not get that low. The injectors should be OK. If you have any concerns about them you can always send them back to be tested. I would try to get the car past the warm-up cycle and drive it and see what other problems occur that may give you more clues as to what is not right.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks David not sure I follow "the idle system" comment what is it I need to check?
I can't drive the car, I doubt I'd get to the end of the road it's that bad!
The battery had a low charge after the car not running for a month and having the alarm armed. So I'm charging it overnight so this may also be adding to my woes, also I noticed an intermittent battery light on the dash so I hope that's all that was. Error "65" I believe is battery/alternator or injectors?

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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 06:32 PM
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Do you still have an Exhaust Back Pressure valve (EBPV)?

The throttle jack works off the vacuum system that is shared with the EBPV. If one of those solenoids or switches is bad it could screw all kinds of stuff up.

I would isolate that system so the throttle jack is not moving the idle and see if that helps.

I recently removed the throttle jack system and my car idles much better.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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Dave it was already removed by PO

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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 04:29 PM
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at the front of the intake manifold (near fire wall) there is a plastic fitting. The hose on that fitting is connected to the fuel vapor/charcoal canister. It sucks fuel vapor and crank case breather exhaust from the charcoal canister into the motor. If that circuit is leaking it provides a direct leak to the intake (I think) My little 1 way vacuum check valve was broken and it was open to the atmo. better idle when I fixed that.

Similarly at the other end of the intake manifold there is a little rubber hose that gets vacuum off the intake. I cant remember where that goes, MAP? That would be another source for direct intake leak.

I would send those injectors out to be checked while you are at it.

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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Erik I think where your talking about is also T connected to my BOV? If that's the case I have rechecked and redone all those vacuum lines are new. Plus under the Chargecooler the plastic "T" which comes off the manifold is a new connector and new hoses again. I've also double checked that the 2 one-way valves at either side are put back correctly, if my memory serves me correctly both have the smaller white part closest to the engine if that makes sense? The lines in and out of the rear fuse panel area are also all changed. As far a s I can see all replaced except the small hard plastic one that goes to the map sensor.

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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 05:38 PM
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Ok you can verify the one way valves are installed correctly by blowing through them to determine which way they work...its a little mind bending for me to think about which way the vacuum has to work but if I think about it long enough I think I figure it out.

on my 94 after deleting the EBPV and the throttle jack there is only one vacuum line going to the little vacuum pump. That is the line that runs forward to the dash HVAC. If you have a second line I think that will be to the throttle jack. I would remove all that if you can.

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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 08:38 AM
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Don't GM MPFI Esprits need the Throttle Jack to raise the idle when the A/C is running?

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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 10:05 AM
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I dont think so, I think I read that AC idle is handled with the computer through the idle air intake valve

I think the throttle jack is only related to the EBPV but not 100% sure.

My Ac is currently not cutting on and I am attempting to use if for the first time since removing the jack so I cant say if there is an effect conclusively.

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 03:50 PM
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What do you mean by "just doesn't feel 100%" and "some performance loss"?
WHich coils?
Which plugs"
Which wires?

What oil are you using on the K&N, how much did you put on?


Stalling when cold and stalling when warm are sometimes different issues. Is it only stalling when cold?

Stalling should lead you to look at the IAC (idle air control stepper).
Remove the BOV while trouble shooting.

Get freescan working, then log data.
FOr idle stalling issues, start logging data from a cold start.
Turn off AC and everything else,
Do not touch anything especially the throttle.
Let the car warm to 80-82C coolant temperature and stabilize when the thermostat opens at 82C.
The IAC should start at 170 and steadily go downward to between 20-40. If not, it'll cause stalling issues.
There is a procedure to adjust the IAC while watching the count in freescan, DO NOT adjust the screws on the manifold by ear!

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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 03:54 PM
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The man is in the house (Travis)!

https://www.thelotusforums.com/forum...comment-839818

Here is a thread where Travis gives some additional details about the info he mentions above.

I thought it might be relevant and when I came to post I see he already chimed in!

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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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AC Delco Coils (oem)
NGK correct plugs (#4 is dirty black on removal)
wires from PMN (now 2 years old)
I haven't re oiled the K&N filter since last year.

I did the dumbest thing tonight and reconnected one of he battery wires incorrectly. After about 5 seconds I realized my error as it started to smoke. I can't tell you how mad I am with myself. I now fear the worse as Freescan seems unable to connect to the car. It also wouldn't start in fact it sounded like the starter engaged but didn't turn over the engine.

I have an out of town friend coming to help tomorrow and all my fingers crossed!

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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 04:03 AM Thread Starter
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Travis after the first break down 2 years back. After all those items were changed I could feel the car stutter through the rpm around 4500 ish them it would pull again. It was noticeable to me. This was way worse of late possibly a different issue altogether although it has a similar feel just at lower rpm 2500-3500. Now of course after my monumental screw up with connecting the battery incorrectly I need to figure out what else is broken

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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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Looks like I got lucky. All indications are I need a new TPS sensor. I also hadn't repaired the one pigtail very well so hopefully this will be it.

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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 09:42 AM
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Verify proper ignition advance.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 04:28 AM Thread Starter
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Update: Cars runs great for the first 15 - 20 minuets then the engine stalls and will NOT restart. Now established I'm getting NO spark to any cylinder. I switched out the ECU and repeated same result. New TPS sensor was able to get 98% Throttle 4.18 Volts and .55 Volts at rest using Freescan.
No Codes!!
So now going to try switching out the Ignition Control Module.
David is this the Crankcase sensor?

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Last edited by uklad99; 06-19-2019 at 05:09 AM.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 09:11 AM
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It could be crank sensor. You can verify crank sensor output with freesca, you'd also nee dot do it when cranking when it is in that no start condition. Some temperature effect causing it not to start?
There is also the D.I. module behind the coils, the coils themselves, the wiring.

Start with the crank sensor signal via freescan.

Are there any codes in freescan?

Have yo checked all the grounds?

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 08:37 AM
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To get spark going the ECU must see the crank sensor and cam sensor. Sounds like some kind of temperature sensitive problem that is causing the no spark condition. Check wiring and connectors and then sensors. Also make sure the battery voltage is not dropping. If it drops and gets too low you won't get spark.
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 12:10 PM
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There is no cam sensor on the 93.5 4cyl 910 engine. There is on the 918 V8 though.

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