S4s clutch adjustment - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 01:23 PM
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How should I adjust my clutch in consideration of the following details?

ISSUE: When pushing clutch down, it isn't fully disengaging.
DETAILS: I replaced the clutch and when I test drove it, the gears ground when trying to go into reverse every time. The clutch was engaging near the floor instead of towards the middle. The clutch would be fully engaged in 1st and reverse after lifting the clutch only 30-40mm (2"). I also noticed my clutch pedal is missing the down stop screw. Without the down stop, I have measured about 178mm of travel and the service manual says 175 - 180mm is normal (See 1st image below).

I don't want to adjust the Threaded Abutment screw too much because I'm currently at 11.4mm (spec = 9mm-12mm). You can read in the 2nd image why not to go outside that range.

Where should I make adjustments to resolve this issue?

If you just replaced the "clutch Assembly" then a adjustment at the clutch fork is all that is required- making sure ur not appling pressure to the release bearing so that its always spinning from excessive pressure on the clutch plate

any adjustment at the "pedal" are really redundant as any adjustment there simply places the hydralic cup for or aft in the master. The pedal stroke remains the same - so ur not moving any more fluid the change the slave stroke.
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post #22 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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ISSUE RESOLVED

I moved the slave abutment screw out from [11.5 or 11.6] out to 11.9 and noticed I didn't get any grinding trying to get into reverse. It felt pretty good through all of the gears. (No change to where the pedal is engaging near the floor board of course.) I bumped it out a little more to 12.2 and everything is feeling silky smooth. Engagement of the clutch is still about the same with it being very quick to full engage, but I can get used to that. Also, there is no wheel spin when jacked up while in 1st gear & the clutch fully depressed. (I'll probably go back and adjust the clutch pedal adjustment a little to ensure no pressure is being applied to the clutch master and tweak the abutment screw closer to 12.0mm if possible).

I still may have an issue (cross posted here) with my brakes that I may not have fully resolved. While replacing the clutch, I also replaced the existing stainless braided lines with new braided lines, replaced the rear caliper piston, had the cylinder honed and installed new seals and boots. I'll have to test drive it in rush hour traffic to see if my issue returns. If it does, I can only replace the front brake lines with new ones also (I've been trying to only do one item at a time to isolate the issue instead of shotgun'n all of the parts and once and not knowing what was causing the problem. Others on the forums might find it helpful too.)

Thanks everyone for your much appreciated input to help get me to LOG for my 1st time!

@Vulcan Grey
@delomike1049
@carbuff
@jtrealty
@lotus4s
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@tricky_dickey

Clutch master and slave cylinders for reference:
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1995 Esprit S4s
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post #23 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 02:39 PM
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Awesome!

2016 Chevy Cruze, manual
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post #24 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 03:16 PM
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glad it is working. That looks like the JAE aftermarket slave btw.

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post #25 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 04:55 PM
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Glad to hear it is working better!

Be careful adjusting the clutch pedal higher. That 175-180mm measurement should be from the face of the clutch pedal to the bulkhead (pushed hard into the carpet). If you get too much more than that you will be bottoming out the piston in the master cylinder which is not good.

The 2-5mm pedal free play at the top is just to make sure there is no pressure on the master cylinder piston which could cause clutch slip.

As Richard said in another post, if your clutch was working fine before, there should never be any reason to adjust the pedal.

The 12.5mm abutment screw thread dimension is a safe adjustment so don't be afraid to go there if you need to.

And what is the bore size stamped into the side of your master cylinder. It should say .70 not 5/8.

Cheers,
Jim

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post #26 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-15-2015, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lotus4s View Post
Glad to hear it is working better!

Be careful adjusting the clutch pedal higher. That 175-180mm measurement should be from the face of the clutch pedal to the bulkhead (pushed hard into the carpet). If you get too much more than that you will be bottoming out the piston in the master cylinder which is not good.

The 2-5mm pedal free play at the top is just to make sure there is no pressure on the master cylinder piston which could cause clutch slip.

As Richard said in another post, if your clutch was working fine before, there should never be any reason to adjust the pedal.

The 12.5mm abutment screw thread dimension is a safe adjustment so don't be afraid to go there if you need to.

And what is the bore size stamped into the side of your master cylinder. It should say .70 not 5/8.

Cheers,
Jim
Thanks for the additional info. I'll make some adjustments tomorrow to the pedal. The only thing I can read clearly on the master cylinder is "GIRLING70" so I'm assuming it is .70.

Jim S.
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post #27 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-12-2017, 08:05 AM
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Would anyone have a copy of section "QE" (clutch) of the shop manual for the S4s? My manual doesn't have that section.
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post #28 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-12-2017, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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PM sent @beinmymirror

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post #29 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-13-2017, 02:40 AM
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Seraph, were you ever able to remove the pivot pin at the clutch pedal?? . When I did mine , I found that it had worn almost in half . Dave S4s
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post #30 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-13-2017, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveS4s View Post
Seraph, were you ever able to remove the pivot pin at the clutch pedal?? . When I did mine , I found that it had worn almost in half . Dave S4s
Yellow Hornet's S4s clutch pin was half worn as well. Can't find the picture just now...

Packing some grease into the clevis should be part of a B service IMO...

Tho' I gotta say, my Esprit's pivot pin has held up OK. (had it out last year when I rebuilt the clutch master cylinder) Perhaps the wear issue is only on SIR (airbag-equipped) cars?

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post #31 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-13-2017, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
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@DaveS4s & @carbuff - I happen to be replacing my clutch master cylinder yesterday. It appears to have sprung a leak since I had last checked about 5k miles ago and also why I have been experiencing a little clutch drag in the last year (I haven't driven it much this year since it has been out of commission for 6 of those months, plus snow here in Colorado). The leak was only obvious from the Lotus position since it was in the foot well and coming from the clutch master rubber boot (see pic below).

My clutch pedal pin looks pretty good. Here is a pic of an S4s clutch pin with about 39,000 miles of use.
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post #32 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 03:39 AM
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YEP, been there, done that too.
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post #33 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
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FYI.

If you buy a replacement clutch master cylinder, be sure to measure the length of the push rod. It'll save you quite a bit of time from not having to reinstall it twice.

New clutch master push rod was 20mm shorter:
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post #34 of 52 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017, 08:54 AM
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^^^ I've had that happen to me. Now, I don't even measure the new one.
I always just use the pushrod from the old master cylinder.

Reduces the time spent in the Lotus Position.


++++


Another Clutch System tip: Make sure any cylinder's fittings are the same size. (Ask before ordering)


JAE can provide adapters of many configurations.

Atwell Haines
'88 Esprit
Succasunna, NJ USA


"Not all angels have wings." - Turbo R
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post #35 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 11:40 AM
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I know this is an old thread and I have read through all of it. I have the same issue only I didn't replace the clutch, I replaced the clutch slave with one from SJ (not a lotus part) because mine was leaking. Now I cant get the car in reverse and there were no issues getting it in reverse before I replaced the clutch slave. I have tried the abutment screw and have spanned it from 9-12mm and then back to 10mm and I do not see any difference no matter where I have that screw set. With the clutch pressed to the floor, I can put it in first and the wheels start to spin (car is on axle stands). I cant get in reverse at all (unless i turn the engine off and start in reverse). I have bleed the heck out of the system and I am not getting anymore bubbles. I can spin the clutch slave piston rod by hand. Should I also be able to press the piston rod into the cylinder by hand (because I can)?

Thanks

Bill

Last edited by wohlmeyer; 06-16-2019 at 11:44 AM. Reason: error
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post #36 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 09:00 AM
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If you can't get into reverse it is because you are not getting full release from the clutch. The reverse gear has no syncros so you can't shift into it if the transmission is still turning because the clutch has not fully released or the rear wheels are spinning. Either you still have air in the clutch hydraulics or you need more throw (movement) of the slave cylinder. Or your clutch is so worn that you can't adjust anymore. Try shifting into reverse with the E brake on so the wheels are not spinning. It can be hard to get all of the air out so it may still need more bleeding. To prevent things from leaking you should be flushing and refilling the brakes AND clutch at least every other year with Castrol DOT 4.
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post #37 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 09:50 AM
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Bill,


Try to bleed the clutch one more time with the cylinder 'dismounted', hanging down by the hose (bleeder at the top).

Reinstall, then prop the pedal down overnight.

Post back with results.



PS Just saw your pics on FB. NICE.

Atwell Haines
'88 Esprit
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post #38 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 11:27 AM
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If you can't get into reverse it is because you are not getting full release from the clutch. The reverse gear has no syncros so you can't shift into it if the transmission is still turning because the clutch has not fully released or the rear wheels are spinning. Either you still have air in the clutch hydraulics or you need more throw (movement) of the slave cylinder. Or your clutch is so worn that you can't adjust anymore. Try shifting into reverse with the E brake on so the wheels are not spinning. It can be hard to get all of the air out so it may still need more bleeding. To prevent things from leaking you should be flushing and refilling the brakes AND clutch at least every other year with Castrol DOT 4.
David Teitelbaum
Thanks for your reply. I have always maintained the hydraulics for the brakes in the manner you discribed, I havnt been so great with the clutch hydraulics. I did replace the master 4 years ago and had the entire system flushed 2 years ago but that is about it until I replaced the slave and lost reverse in the process.
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post #39 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by carbuff View Post
Bill,


Try to bleed the clutch one more time with the cylinder 'dismounted', hanging down by the hose (bleeder at the top).

Reinstall, then prop the pedal down overnight.

Post back with results.



PS Just saw your pics on FB. NICE.
Thanks for your reply, I will give that a shot and see if there is any change. I am skeptical that there is still air in there but I suppose anything is possible. Ill let you know. Thanks for the FB shout out. Cars and Coffee was a blast!
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post #40 of 52 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 07:45 PM
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Thanks for the additional info. I'll make some adjustments tomorrow to the pedal. The only thing I can read clearly on the master cylinder is "GIRLING70" so I'm assuming it is .70.
Pelican and Bimmers website praise Wilwood MC-s, they are internally anodized.
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Last edited by MRDANGERUS; 06-18-2019 at 08:25 AM.
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